Ethanol

[Zam-Zam]

Ethanol is good, they told us. The more ethanol is the gas, the better, they said.

Except......


Scientists have made a surprising discovery about ethanol: The more it was used by drivers in Sao Paulo, Brazil, the more ozone they measured in the local environment.
The finding, reported this week in Nature Geoscience, is contrary to other studies predicting that increased use of ethanol would cut levels of ground-level ozone, or smog.

Sao Paulo proved a unique laboratory for studying the effects of ethanol and gasoline usage on local air pollution because 40% of the nearly 6 million light-duty vehicles there can run on either fuel. When the percentage of those vehicles using gasoline rose from 14% to 76%, ambient ozone concentrations in the city fell by about 20%, researchers found.

http://www.latimes.com/science/scie...zone-levels-brazil-20140501-story.html#page=1


And so now the government mantra is "never mind".......

(Reuters) - Six months ago the U.S. oil industry scored a surprise win against farm groups when the Obama administration proposed slashing the amount of ethanol refiners must blend into gasoline, a move that could save them billions of dollars.


Stunned by the reversal, producers of the corn-based biofuel and their supporters are now fighting back ahead of a June deadline for the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to make a final decision on the cut.

The clash has been portrayed as a battle between "Big Oil" and "Big Corn," two powerful and deep-pocketed lobbies. But a Reuters review of public records and interviews with lawmakers, lobbyists and executives reveals a more complex picture.

A private equity firm and an airline helped convince the Obama administration to backtrack, at least temporarily, on a policy it has supported for years: requiring steadily-rising volumes of ethanol to be blended into gasoline each year, a key to shifting U.S. energy consumption toward renewable sources.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/12/us-oil-ethanol-lobby-idUSBREA4B01O20140512


So, what was accomplished?


"I'm from the government, I'm here to help."

 

[fairsheet]

"Blaming" this on Obama, or Li'l George, or Clinton.....or any other president, is pathetic. This is all about the power of the midwestern (mostly GOP now) corn growers and vendors.

On a tangent, there is a significant difference between Brazil's ethanol and our ethanol. Of course neither Brazil's sugar cane nor our corn our on the "green" end of the ag. scale, by any stretch.

But, at least Brazil's ethanol comes as a byproduct of their sugar production. We grow corn specifically for ethanol.

 

[as seen on tv]

weren't we all supposed to be using those "segway" scooters by now?

 

[Colorforms]

"Blaming" this on Obama, or Li'l George, or Clinton.....or any other president, is pathetic. This is all about the power of the midwestern (mostly GOP now) corn growers and vendors.

On a tangent, there is a significant difference between Brazil's ethanol and our ethanol. Of course neither Brazil's sugar cane nor our corn our on the "green" end of the ag. scale, by any stretch.

But, at least Brazil's ethanol comes as a byproduct of their sugar production. We grow corn specifically for ethanol.

The Midwestern corn growers and vendors have no power other than that they can buy in Washington.

Big and intrusive government creates and fosters this kind of situation.

 

[Dawg]

Ethanol is good, they told us. The more ethanol is the gas, the better, they said.

Except......


Scientists have made a surprising discovery about ethanol: The more it was used by drivers in Sao Paulo, Brazil, the more ozone they measured in the local environment.
The finding, reported this week in Nature Geoscience, is contrary to other studies predicting that increased use of ethanol would cut levels of ground-level ozone, or smog.

Sao Paulo proved a unique laboratory for studying the effects of ethanol and gasoline usage on local air pollution because 40% of the nearly 6 million light-duty vehicles there can run on either fuel. When the percentage of those vehicles using gasoline rose from 14% to 76%, ambient ozone concentrations in the city fell by about 20%, researchers found.

http://www.latimes.com/science/scie...zone-levels-brazil-20140501-story.html#page=1


And so now the government mantra is "never mind".......

(Reuters) - Six months ago the U.S. oil industry scored a surprise win against farm groups when the Obama administration proposed slashing the amount of ethanol refiners must blend into gasoline, a move that could save them billions of dollars.

Stunned by the reversal, producers of the corn-based biofuel and their supporters are now fighting back ahead of a June deadline for the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to make a final decision on the cut.

The clash has been portrayed as a battle between "Big Oil" and "Big Corn," two powerful and deep-pocketed lobbies. But a Reuters review of public records and interviews with lawmakers, lobbyists and executives reveals a more complex picture.

A private equity firm and an airline helped convince the Obama administration to backtrack, at least temporarily, on a policy it has supported for years: requiring steadily-rising volumes of ethanol to be blended into gasoline each year, a key to shifting U.S. energy consumption toward renewable sources.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/12/us-oil-ethanol-lobby-idUSBREA4B01O20140512


So, what was accomplished?


"I'm from the government, I'm here to help."

If I hear the above I know I'm fixing to have a bad day........I will not use ethanol-gas in any of my small engines........it will murder a lawnmower/chain-saw/weed eater/etc.......so many of these:
"eggs good for you---wait eggs bad for you
beets cause cancer---wait beets good for you
wood stove bad for you..........waiting for reversal.

 

[fairsheet]

The Midwestern corn growers and vendors have no power other than that they can buy in Washington.

Big and intrusive government creates and fosters this kind of situation.

NOBODY has any power other than that which they can "buy", in a functioning democracy. So, what's your point?

 

[fairsheet]

If I hear the above I know I'm fixing to have a bad day........I will not use ethanol-gas in any of my small engines........it will murder a lawnmower/chain-saw/weed eater/etc.......so many of these:
"eggs good for you---wait eggs bad for you
beets cause cancer---wait beets good for you
wood stove bad for you..........waiting for reversal.

Ethanol seems fine in modern cars. Their systems are designed to handle some ethanol, and we run that fuel through our cars pretty quickly.

But...you're absolutely right as to yard/garden machines AND outboards. Once you've replaced the necessary "rotten" rubber parts at the beginning of the season and gotten them fired up, they seem to be okay for the season. But then...the whole cycle starts again next year!

 

[Colorforms]

NOBODY has any power other than that which they can "buy", in a functioning democracy. So, what's your point?

My point is that you want to blame the Midwestern corn growers and vendors, but they are only taking advantage of the tools given to them.

The only ones to blame are our on the take politicians. They are the ones who write and sign the laws. Clinton, Bush, and Obama are all to blame.

 

[Zam-Zam]

"Blaming" this on Obama, or Li'l George, or Clinton.....or any other president, is pathetic. This is all about the power of the midwestern (mostly GOP now) corn growers and vendors.

On a tangent, there is a significant difference between Brazil's ethanol and our ethanol. Of course neither Brazil's sugar cane nor our corn our on the "green" end of the ag. scale, by any stretch.

But, at least Brazil's ethanol comes as a byproduct of their sugar production. We grow corn specifically for ethanol.

I didn't mention any president, so we can dispense with that straw man immediately.
This was a governmental "we know what's best" fubar, and evidence that they have no idea "what's best".

I did pose a question: What was accomplished?

I'll bet that goes unanswered.

 

[fairsheet]

My point is that you want to blame the Midwestern corn growers and vendors, but they are only taking advantage of the tools given to them.

The only ones to blame are our on the take politicians. They are the ones who write and sign the laws. Clinton, Bush, and Obama are all to blame.

I see what you're saying now. But...I'd still be more inclined to blaming US, as opposed to those presidents. We - Democrats AND Republicans can start by insisting that we don't give a rat's ass which candidate wins the first-in-the-nation Iowa primaries. In fact.....we oughta give our candidates EXTRA points for losing that one!

 

[Colorforms]

I see what you're saying now. But...I'd still be more inclined to blaming US, as opposed to those presidents. We - Democrats AND Republicans can start by insisting that we don't give a rat's ass which candidate wins the first-in-the-nation Iowa primaries. In fact.....we oughta give our candidates EXTRA points for losing that one!

LOL agreed.

 

[Dawg]

Ethanol seems fine in modern cars. Their systems are designed to handle some ethanol, and we run that fuel through our cars pretty quickly.

But...you're absolutely right as to yard/garden machines AND outboards. Once you've replaced the necessary "rotten" rubber parts at the beginning of the season and gotten them fired up, they seem to be okay for the season. But then...the whole cycle starts again next year!

all one needs do is look at the RUST on the muffler after using E........to realize what's it's doing to inner parts of small engines.
I haven't had any bad effects (that I know of) one my autos.....and I'm paying $3.62 for E/G and $4.65 for GAS.gal.

 

[fairsheet]

I didn't mention any president, so we can dispense with that straw man immediately.
This was a governmental "we know what's best" fubar, and evidence that they have no idea "what's best".

I did pose a question: What was accomplished?

I'll bet that goes unanswered.

You mentioned guvmint, but no president by name. Wordgame point for you! Still, the history of ethanol in the U.S. suggests pretty clearly, that this was never a "guvmint knows best" thing. It's ALWAYS been about a sop to the corn industry.

 

[fairsheet]

all one needs do is look at the RUST on the muffler after using E........to realize what's it's doing to inner parts of small engines.
I haven't had any bad effects (that I know of) one my autos.....and I'm paying $3.62 for E/G and $4.65 for GAS.gal.

The one that's always made me most nervous, is the '88 100HP Merc. The owner's manual specifically says not to use alcohol/ethanol gas, but I do it anyway. I try to run the engine dry at the end of the season, but since I always have hopes of taking it out at least one more time, sometimes I don't get around to it. I bought it new. It runs a little rough right at the beginning of the season until it "coughs" and takes off. Then it's good for the year. But of course....this motor's "year" consists of about 15 hours at the very most.

The only real problem I've noticed is that the rubber diaphram in the fuel only lasts 5-6 years. But then, that part costs about $5 and takes 10 minutes to replace.

 

[Dawg]

The one that's always made me most nervous, is the '88 100HP Merc. The owner's manual specifically says not to use alcohol/ethanol gas, but I do it anyway. I try to run the engine dry at the end of the season, but since I always have hopes of taking it out at least one more time, sometimes I don't get around to it. I bought it new. It runs a little rough right at the beginning of the season until it "coughs" and takes off. Then it's good for the year. But of course....this motor's "year" consists of about 15 hours at the very most.

The only real problem I've noticed is that the rubber diaphram in the fuel only lasts 5-6 years. But then, that part costs about $5 and takes 10 minutes to replace.

15 hrs
don't boat much evidently
would be interesting to know when you get 100 hrs on it.......

 

[fairsheet]

15 hrs
don't boat much evidently
would be interesting to know when you get 100 hrs on it.......

It got a lot more use back when the kids were still at home. This damned motor is now 26 years old though. About 10 years ago, I decided that I'd amortized the hell out of it, so if it blew up tomorrow, I couldn't bitch.

But now I've decided that I want it to last forever. Let's just say that my nice and light 100hp 2-cycle will blow the cleats off ANY 100, 115, or 125 4-cycle!

I bought a 4-cycle 6hp Tohatsu for my little boat. Someone stole my mid 90's 8hp 2-cycle Merc, so I had to buy the new one. I would trade this "pristine" 2-year old Tohatsu for that old Merc, straight across and in a heartbeat.

(Anyone know where I can access a black market in 2-cycle outboards)?

 

[Dawg]

It got a lot more use back when the kids were still at home. This damned motor is now 26 years old though. About 10 years ago, I decided that I'd amortized the hell out of it, so if it blew up tomorrow, I couldn't bitch.

But now I've decided that I want it to last forever. Let's just say that my nice and light 100hp 2-cycle will blow the cleats off ANY 100, 115, or 125 4-cycle!

I bought a 4-cycle 6hp Tohatsu for my little boat. Someone stole my mid 90's 8hp 2-cycle Merc, so I had to buy the new one. I would trade this "pristine" 2-year old Tohatsu for that old Merc, straight across and in a heartbeat.

(Anyone know where I can access a black market in 2-cycle outboards)?

friend of mine owns a boat motor repair business, I'll check with him.......I'm still running a 50hp merc on a 18' C-C on the river........about only place I go now..........damn lakes are over loaded, especially with 1000's of kids on Jet Skis........

 

[fairsheet]

friend of mine owns a boat motor repair business, I'll check with him.......I'm still running a 50hp merc on a 18' C-C on the river........about only place I go now..........damn lakes are over loaded, especially with 1000's of kids on Jet Skis........

Back when we went to our lake place routinely, I had to deal with the scourge of jetskis. One thing I noticed was that a surprising number of them were not state registered as required by law. Of course I had way better things to do than "police" the lake, but if one of those unregistered jetskis was bugging me in OUR cove? ....I'd warn him/her that if they didn't get if off the lake immediately, I'd call the sheriff. That always worked just fine...

The other trick I used then and continue to use out on the open salt water now, is to insist upon the very simple "rules of the road" that so many seem oblivious to. Put simply....when a craft under power is approaching from your right, you yield to that craft. When it's approaching from your left, you hold course and HE yields. The "wake up and get with the program" signal for boats, is 5 quick blasts on the horn. Most jetskiers are kinda surprised when they learn that they're actually bound by a few rules!

It's more fun out on the open water though, when some guy's kickin' back with a beer, on his flybridge. It's funny as hell to watch 'em jump!

 

[Zam-Zam]

And then there's this:

Using corn crop residue to make ethanol and other biofuels reduces soil carbon and can generate more greenhouse gases than gasoline, according to a study published today in the journal Nature Climate Change.
The findings by a University of Nebraska-Lincoln team of researchers cast doubt on whether corn residue can be used to meet federal mandates to ramp up ethanol production and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.


Corn stover -- the stalks, leaves and cobs in cornfields after harvest -- has been considered a ready resource for cellulosic ethanol production. The U.S. Department of Energy has provided more than $1 billion in federal funds to support research to develop cellulosic biofuels, including ethanol made from corn stover. While the cellulosic biofuel production process has yet to be extensively commercialized, several private companies are developing specialized biorefineries capable of converting tough corn fibers into fuel.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140420131814.htm



"Big Corn" isn't going to like that.

 

[fairsheet]

Back when we went to our lake place routinely, I had to deal with the scourge of jetskis. One thing I noticed was that a surprising number of them were not state registered as required by law. Of course I had way better things to do than "police" the lake, but if one of those unregistered jetskis was bugging me in OUR cove? ....I'd warn him/her that if they didn't get if off the lake immediately, I'd call the sheriff. That always worked just fine...

The other trick I used then and continue to use out on the open salt water now, is to insist upon the very simple "rules of the road" that so many seem oblivious to. Put simply....when a craft under power is approaching from your right, you yield to that craft. When it's approaching from your left, you hold course and HE yields. The "wake up and get with the program" signal for boats, is 5 quick blasts on the horn. Most jetskiers are kinda surprised when they learn that they're actually bound by a few rules!

It's more fun out on the open water though, when some guy's kickin' back with a beer, on his flybridge. It's funny as hell to watch 'em jump!

When I first got my boat, my wife and I took a piloting course. At the end, we needed to take and pass a 100-question multiple choice test.

There was one question about what you should do when approaching a dock with the wind at your lee side (or something like that). One of the choices was "Bark orders loudly, to all within hailing distance!"

Of course that wasn't the correct answer but we joke about it to this day because.....it seems like maybe 50% of boaters think that IS the correct answer!