Good question...

[Lukey]

Is it really unpatriotic for large multinational companies to seek greater profits and an environment where they can focus more of their efforts on creating good products and delivering great service, even if that means they have to leave America? Or is it actually more unpatriotic for progressives (lets just stop the charade, the Marxists) to wage a constant war on capitalism by making the tax and regulatory landscape here untenable for profitable enterprise (unless you are letting the bureaucrats run the business)?

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/articl...otic-a-company-moving-or-a-crippling-tax-code

 

[Deleted member 21794]

Wow, what a great question. It sounds to me like the people doing what it takes to further American values, including leaving America if needed, are the patriots.

Too bad the Marxists don't leave and join their brethren in Venezuela, Cuba and other hot spots of Marxism.

 

[Lukey]

Wow, what a great question. It sounds to me like the people doing what it takes to further American values, including leaving America if needed, are the patriots.

Too bad the Marxists don't leave and join their brethren in Venezuela, Cuba and other hot spots of Marxism.

Yep, it's time to stop playing patty cake with the Marxist left. Ruining the economy (by destroying market based private sector capitalism) is subversive anti-American activity. If you aren't working to reverse that (through less regulations, fewer, simpler taxes, sound money) then you are a traitor. NOT the companies that move to Ireland to get away from the economic mess the progressives have wrought.

 

[Deleted member 21794]

Yep, it's time to stop playing patty cake with the Marxist left. Ruining the economy (by destroying market based private sector capitalism) is a traitorous activity. If you aren't working to reverse that (through less regulations, fewer, simpler taxes, sound money) then you are a traitor. NOT the companies that move to Ireland to get away from the economic mess the progressives have wrought.

I think a lot of people feel the same way and are tired of playing patty cake with the left. I also think this sentiment goes a LONG way towards explaining the success of Donald Trump's campaign.

And ironically, at the same time we have Bernie Sanders doing quite well against the Clinton juggernaut. Coming within 4 points of Hillary in Nevada is really quite impressive when you look at the power of the Clinton machine. And I have a feeling Cankleville is a pretty nervous environment to be in right about now. I can't help but wonder what kind of loser supports a loser like Bernie, who was basically a bum half of his life and is the most economically clueless presidential candidate I've seen in perhaps my entire adult life.

 

[Lukey]

I think a lot of people feel the same way and are tired of playing patty cake with the left. I also think this sentiment goes a LONG way towards explaining the success of Donald Trump's campaign.

And ironically, at the same time we have Bernie Sanders doing quite well against the Clinton juggernaut. Coming within 4 points of Hillary in Nevada is really quite impressive when you look at the power of the Clinton machine. And I have a feeling Cankleville is a pretty nervous environment to be in right about now. I can't help but wonder what kind of loser supports a loser like Bernie, who was basically a bum half of his life and is the most economically clueless presidential candidate I've seen in perhaps my entire adult life.

Well my best guess is it's the people who feel like capitalism is the system that is cheating them - who either aren't smart enough to figure out that it is really the progressives' subversive anti-capitalism or just don't know enough about economics to understand it. Like this lady:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...olina_voters_tired_of_being_stuck_129734.html

Them and the "professional left" who are the subversive Marxists who drove those jobs mentioned in that piece out of the country...

 

[Deleted member 21794]

Well my best guess is it's the people who feel like capitalism is the system that is cheating them - who either aren't smart enough to figure out that it is really the progressives' subversive anti-capitalism or just don't know enough about economics to understand it. Like this lady:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...olina_voters_tired_of_being_stuck_129734.html

Them and the "professional left" who are the subversive Marxists who drove those jobs mentioned in that piece out of the country...

It seems to me the losers will always be losers. Going the Marxist route, the best they can hope for is more people will be forced into the loser category along with them. How [Unwelcome language removed] perverted is that??????

At any rate, the lady in SC is too stupid to see it's her thinking that is her problem and why she is "stuck". And to think she is so clueless that not taking a look at who she's been voting for for the past few decades? Pretty scary.

 

[Rouge Rover]

I don't like the way the question was worded. I wouldn't expect a multi-national to be patriotic. They work strictly based on the bottom line.

 

[Lukey]

I don't like the way the question was worded. I wouldn't expect a multi-national to be patriotic. They work strictly based on the bottom line.

I agree - it's not a company's responsibility to stay where the policy agenda is out to get them. But the left is calling these businesses (or rather the people who run them) "unpatriotic:"

http://nypost.com/2014/07/26/overseas-tax-inversions-are-unpatriotic-obama/

I have news for Obama - his Marxism makes HIM "unpatriotic."

 

[Emily]

All right then, a counter point of view...
Yes, it is unpatriotic for an American company, founded and built in America by Americans with all the freedoms and benefits America has that made it possible, to leave America.
Were I in charge, there would be a huge penalty and the goods produced by any company that did that would be banned from import.
It is not unpatriotic to tax or regulate business activity
It is stupid to over-tax and over-regulate business activity.
Corporations have obligations to their owners/shareholders, yes. They also have obligations to their countries, to their communities, to their employees, and to God.

 

[Lukey]

All right then, a counter point of view...
Yes, it is unpatriotic for an American company, founded and built in America by Americans with all the freedoms and benefits America has that made it possible, to leave America.
Were I in charge, there would be a huge penalty and the goods produced by any company that did that would be banned from import.
It is not unpatriotic to tax or regulate business activity
It is stupid to over-tax and over-regulate business activity.
Corporations have obligations to their owners/shareholders, yes. They also have obligations to their countries, to their communities, to their employees, and to God.

They don't have an obligation to submit to wealth redistribution and central planning...

 

[Emily]

They don't have an obligation to submit to wealth redistribution and central planning...

It's a matter of degree and of intelligent application.
Would you agree that a stripper bar ought not be located next door to an elementary school or a 24-hour truck stop diner right in the middle of a residential neighborhood? Municipal zoning ordinances are government central planning and are the proper responsibility of government. Would you agree that patent law allowing a company to profit from an innovation exclusively for a time without barring all free-market competition eternally benefits consumers and the overall economy? That's a degree of central planning and of wealth redistribution.
I know the sort of thing you're talking about and I agree that American businesses are over-taxed and over-regulated. It's government stupidity and harmful to the economy & the society. We're in full agreement there. But that doesn't justify unrestrained profit-seeking no matter the harm to kin and country.

 

[georgephillip]

Is it really unpatriotic for large multinational companies to seek greater profits and an environment where they can focus more of their efforts on creating good products and delivering great service, even if that means they have to leave America? Or is it actually more unpatriotic for progressives (lets just stop the charade, the Marxists) to wage a constant war on capitalism by making the tax and regulatory landscape here untenable for profitable enterprise (unless you are letting the bureaucrats run the business)?

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/articl...otic-a-company-moving-or-a-crippling-tax-code

Would such a move even be possible if US labor unions had voting members sitting on the board of directors of US corporations planning to create a few more Detroits and Camdens in the country that enabled their shareholder's fortunes?

 

[Lukey]

Would such a move even be possible if US labor unions had voting members sitting on the board of directors of US corporations planning to create a few more Detroits and Camdens in the country that enabled their shareholder's fortunes?

That's not really the point. It would also be impossible if we had national guardsmen ring their HQ with tanks and assault weapons. Forcing them to stay here and run themselves into the ground chasing paperwork for the apparatchiks and bureaucrats and having their profitability siphoned off for the use of the collective is just going to lead to them going under (or being taken over by the government)...like in Venezuela:

http://theweek.com/articles/606693/oil-didnt-wreck-venezuelas-economy-socialism-did

 

[Lukey]

It's a matter of degree and of intelligent application.
Would you agree that a stripper bar ought not be located next door to an elementary school or a 24-hour truck stop diner right in the middle of a residential neighborhood? Municipal zoning ordinances are government central planning and are the proper responsibility of government. Would you agree that patent law allowing a company to profit from an innovation exclusively for a time without barring all free-market competition eternally benefits consumers and the overall economy? That's a degree of central planning and of wealth redistribution.
I know the sort of thing you're talking about and I agree that American businesses are over-taxed and over-regulated. It's government stupidity and harmful to the economy & the society. We're in full agreement there. But that doesn't justify unrestrained profit-seeking no matter the harm to kin and country.

Patent law (IP rights) is simply the right to private property, and, as such, is more civil/police action than central planning. As for zoning laws, those are local and, as such, are not really "central planning" either. And no where have I ever argued that "unrestrained profit-seeking" should run rough shod over individual rights. I think you just need to get an understanding of the nuance regarding what "central planning" is (and isn't). It's the FEDERAL government meddling in markets (through fiscal and monetary policy), running businesses and even whole industries (through over regulation) and large scale wealth redistribution (which, in my view, runs counter to Constitutional protections and rights) by removing property that belongs to some and awarding it to others.

 

[georgephillip]

That's not really the point. It would also be impossible if we had national guardsmen ring their HQ with tanks and assault weapons. Forcing them to stay here and run themselves into the ground chasing paperwork for the apparatchiks and bureaucrats and having their profitability siphoned off for the use of the collective is just going to lead to them going under (or being taken over by the government)...like in Venezuela:

http://theweek.com/articles/606693/oil-didnt-wreck-venezuelas-economy-socialism-did

Venezuela's economy is failing today for the same reason Salvador Allende's economy failed in Chile forty years ago:

"Revelations that President Richard Nixon had ordered the CIA to 'make the economy scream' in Chile to 'prevent Allende from coming to power or to unseat him,' prompted a major scandal in the mid-1970s, and a major investigation by the U.S. Senate."
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Is it really unpatriotic for large multinational companies to seek greater profits and an environment where they can focus more of their efforts on creating good products and delivering great service, even if that means they have to leave America? Or is it actually more unpatriotic for progressives (lets just stop the charade, the Marxists) to wage a constant war on capitalism by making the tax and regulatory landscape here untenable for profitable enterprise (unless you are letting the bureaucrats run the business)?

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/articl...otic-a-company-moving-or-a-crippling-tax-code

The patriotism of companies that take advantage of our laws to outsource and seek foreign tax havens is debatable.

More questionable is the patriotism of politicians who pass the laws enabling and perpetuating such conduct.

 

[Lukey]

Venezuela's economy is failing today for the same reason Salvador Allende's economy failed in Chile forty years ago:

"Revelations that President Richard Nixon had ordered the CIA to 'make the economy scream' in Chile to 'prevent Allende from coming to power or to unseat him,' prompted a major scandal in the mid-1970s, and a major investigation by the U.S. Senate."
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm

If socialism is so economically powerful, how is it that the weak capitalist economy of the USA can destroy one socialist economy after another without leaving any fingerprints?

 

[Lukey]

The patriotism of companies that take advantage of our laws to outsource and seek foreign tax havens is debatable.

More questionable is the patriotism of politicians who pass the laws enabling and perpetuating such conduct.

So maintaining economic freedom is "unpatriotic" and implementing economic repression is "patriotic?" Do I have that correct, comrade?

 

[georgephillip]

If socialism is so economically powerful, how is it that the weak capitalist economy of the USA can destroy one socialist economy after another without leaving any fingerprints?

"Washington, D.C. – September 11, 1998 marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of the military coup led by General Augusto Pinochet.

"The violent overthrow of the democratically-elected Popular Unity government of Salvador Allende changed the course of the country that Chilean poet Pablo Neruda described as 'a long petal of sea, wine and snow'; because of CIA covert intervention in Chile, and the repressive character of General Pinochet's rule, the coup became the most notorious military takeover in the annals of Latin American history."
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm

I'm pretty sure you know which country is the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World, right?

It's not Venezuela or Chile

 

[Lukey]

"Washington, D.C. – September 11, 1998 marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of the military coup led by General Augusto Pinochet.

"The violent overthrow of the democratically-elected Popular Unity government of Salvador Allende changed the course of the country that Chilean poet Pablo Neruda described as 'a long petal of sea, wine and snow'; because of CIA covert intervention in Chile, and the repressive character of General Pinochet's rule, the coup became the most notorious military takeover in the annals of Latin American history."
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm

I'm pretty sure you know which country is the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World, right?

It's not Venezuela or Chile

As president, Allende adopted a policy of nationalization of industries and collectivisation; due to these and other factors, increasingly strained relations between him and the legislative and judicial branches of the Chilean government—who did not share his enthusiasm for socialisation—culminated in a declaration by Congress of a "constitutional breakdown." A centre-right majority including the Christian Democrats, whose support had enabled Allende's election, denounced his rule as unconstitutional and called for his overthrow by force. On 11 September 1973 the military moved to oust Allende in a coup d'état sponsored by the United States Central Intelligence Agency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende

Were we just doing them a favor?

Under the influence of the free market-oriented neoliberal "Chicago Boys", the military government implemented economic reforms, including currency stabilization, tariff cutting, opening Chile's markets to global trade, restricting labor unions, privatizing social security, and the privatization of hundreds of state-controlled industries. These policies produced what has been referred to as the "Miracle of Chile," but critics state that the government policies dramatically increased economic inequality, and some attribute the devastating effect the 1982 monetary crisis had on the Chilean economy to these policies.[16][17] Chile was, for most of the 1990s, the best-performing economy in Latin America, though some academics continue to dispute the legacy of Pinochet's reforms.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet

Yeah, I'm sure the prosperity the people of Chile had to "endure" was just awful...