GOP debate theme: GWB "kept us safe"

[Bugsy McGurk]

And Obama hasn't.

How insane is that? GWB was president on 9/11 - the most devastating terrorist attacks in world history - and we have suffered no attacks under Obama even in the same league as 9/11.

But that doesn't stop the GOP liars - GWB "kept us safe," and Obama hasn't.

A classic example of how GOP cultists live in an upside-down fantasy land. Literally delusional.

 

[Arkady]

And Obama hasn't.

How insane is that? GWB was president on 9/11 - the most devastating terrorist attacks in world history - and we have suffered no attacks under Obama even in the same league as 9/11.

But that doesn't stop the GOP liars - GWB "kept us safe," and Obama hasn't.

A classic example of how GOP cultists live in an upside-down fantasy land. Literally delusional.

I chuckled when I heard that. If you had to pick one president in history who did the worst job keeping us safe, it would be Bush. It was under Bush that we suffered the biggest security lapse in our history, and a major American landmark was left a smoking ruin full of 3000 corpses. And it's not like that was the only attack on America in that time. There were the Beltway Snipers, the Anthrax Attacks, and attacks on our foreign missions significantly more deadly than Benghazi. That's in addition to the THOUSANDS of Americans he got killed in his ill-considered adventure in Iraq. He sure didn't keep those GIs safe.

There's also the violent crime trends to consider, since those actually represent a bigger risk to our safety than the less common forms of violence like terrorist attack. The Bush era was interesting in that there wasn't much improvement in violent crime, despite dramatic improvement during the Clinton and Obama years. For example, the murder rate bounced up and down on Bush's watch, ending his time just 0.1 points better than it had started it. By comparison, there were gigantic declines in the murder rate when Clinton and Obama were president. Of the three of them, at least, Bush did the worst job keeping us safe. In Obama's first five years, murder rates had already improved nine times as much as in Bush's full eight years, and the Clinton era had even faster improvement than that!

 

[gigi]

Obama calls terrorist attacks things like "workplace violence" but calls people who believe babies shouldn't be murdered "terrorists". As a result of the ideology he espouses, more human beings die in this country by abortion EVERYDAY than died in the 9/11 attacks. So yeah, we have suffered attacks in the same league as 9/11 under Obama...everyday.
This is man who makes arms deals with people who chant "death to America", fought hard during his time as a state senator to strip defenseless newborns of lifesaving care and even just comfort care.

I'm terrorized just thinking about it.

 

[Lukey]

GWB was, of course, completely incompetent. Which is the only thing between Obama and "worst President ever..."

 

[Arkady]

Obama calls terrorist attacks things like "workplace violence" but calls people who believe babies shouldn't be murdered "terrorists".

In the Bush years, the 9/11 attacks weren't counted as "murders," helping to keep his violent crime stats lower than they'd otherwise be. If something does get called "workplace violence," it shows up in those stats. Yet, despite that, the murder rate has been dropping VASTLY faster on Obama's watch than it did on Bush's. So, who is keeping us safer?

As a result of the ideology he espouses, more human beings die in this country by abortion EVERYDAY than died in the 9/11 attacks.

On Obama's watch, the abortion rate dropped from 3.99/1000 people, in Bush's last year, to 3.30/1000 in 2012 (the latest year I have on record).

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/graphusabrate.html

That's a decline of 17.3% just in Obama's first term. That compares to a 10.3% drop in Bush's first term, and just 4.3% in his second term.

Now that you know the FACT that abortion is becoming rarer faster under Obama's policies than previously, is your opinion different? Or is the goal not so much reducing abortions, but instead punishing women who don't observe your religious taboos?

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Obama calls terrorist attacks things like "workplace violence" but calls people who believe babies shouldn't be murdered "terrorists". As a result of the ideology he espouses, more human beings die in this country by abortion EVERYDAY than died in the 9/11 attacks. So yeah, we have suffered attacks in the same league as 9/11 under Obama...everyday.
This is man who makes arms deals with people who chant "death to America", fought hard during his time as a state senator to strip defenseless newborns of lifesaving care and even just comfort care.

I'm terrorized just thinking about it.

This is not about abortion, but abortions occurred under GWB too - that's a wash.

Any comment on the actual thread topic?

 

[gigi]

In the Bush years, the 9/11 attacks weren't counted as "murders," helping to keep his violent crime stats lower than they'd otherwise be. If something does get called "workplace violence," it shows up in those stats. Yet, despite that, the murder rate has been dropping VASTLY faster on Obama's watch than it did on Bush's. So, who is keeping us safer?



On Obama's watch, the abortion rate dropped from 3.99/1000 people, in Bush's last year, to 3.30/1000 in 2012 (the latest year I have on record).

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/graphusabrate.html

That's a decline of 17.3% just in Obama's first term. That compares to a 10.3% drop in Bush's first term, and just 4.3% in his second term.

Now that you know the FACT that abortion is becoming rarer faster under Obama's policies than previously, is your opinion different? Or is the goal not so much reducing abortions, but instead punishing women who don't observe your religious taboos?

The decline in abortions is no thanks to Obama. He's done nothing but advocate for abortion and an abortion provider. Young adults are turning away from abortion as birth control as a result of education about what a heinous procedure abortion is. And that education didn't come from Obama.

But as abortion rates have declined steadily, Obama's massas over at PP continue to bring in the same numbers year after year. . In 2012, they did nearly 334000 abortions. That's over 75000 more than they did in 2005. That's about one abortion every two minutes, everyday of the year.

So you can cook your stats all you like. But while abortion numbers decline, the organization that Obama has vowed to defend and support keeps their numbers up while the national average falls.

It's got nothing to do with religion. Even if there was no God, abortion would still involve the killing of defenseless human beings, and in such heinous ways. Do you know the best way to a baby's mind?
Through his face.

When Obama stops advocating for innocent lives to end then maybe we'll talk about how he keeps us safe.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

GWB was, of course, completely incompetent. Which is the only thing between Obama and "worst President ever..."

You forgot to show your work.

;-)

 

[gigi]

This is not about abortion, but abortions occurred under GWB too - that's a wash.

Any comment on the actual thread topic?

I'm not intending to hijack your thread, Bugsy. But listening to this blather about Obama keeping us safe when more people lose their lives everyday at the hands of an organization he's vowed to support than did on 9/11....I had to mention it.

 

[JuliefromOhio]

repub/cons believe that GWB's term began on 9/12/01. that's how stupid they are.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

I'm not intending to hijack your thread, Bugsy. But listening to this blather about Obama keeping us safe when more people lose their lives everyday at the hands of an organization he's vowed to support than did on 9/11....I had to mention it.

Sure you are.

You realize how delusional the "Bush kept us safe" lie is, so you dodged the topic and babbled about abortion.

 

[Lukey]

You forgot to show your work.

;-)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...americans-say-obamas-presidency-is-a-failure/

 

[Caroljo]

repub/cons believe that GWB's term began on 9/12/01. that's how stupid they are.

Democrat/libs believe Bush could have stopped 9/11 and that he's the only one at fault for it....that's how stupid they are.

AFTER 9/11, was there any more terrorist attacks? We've had quite a few since Obama was elected. Not on as big of a scale as 9/11....but just as important! These things didn't happen under Bush. I don't think I need to list them all for you, I'm sure you've heard.

The ME is in worse turmoil since Obama became president. We've had more threats against us than any other time. So now he wants a deal to give Iran Billions that even Kerry said will probably be used for terrorism! I'd say Kerry & Obama should be charged as being traitors to our country. But they won't be. If it were a republican president that did that, you guys would be foaming at the mouth mad!

 

[Sickofleft]

I chuckled when I heard that. If you had to pick one president in history who did the worst job keeping us safe, it would be Bush. It was under Bush that we suffered the biggest security lapse in our history, and a major American landmark was left a smoking ruin full of 3000 corpses. And it's not like that was the only attack on America in that time. There were the Beltway Snipers, the Anthrax Attacks, and attacks on our foreign missions significantly more deadly than Benghazi. That's in addition to the THOUSANDS of Americans he got killed in his ill-considered adventure in Iraq. He sure didn't keep those GIs safe.

There's also the violent crime trends to consider, since those actually represent a bigger risk to our safety than the less common forms of violence like terrorist attack. The Bush era was interesting in that there wasn't much improvement in violent crime, despite dramatic improvement during the Clinton and Obama years. For example, the murder rate bounced up and down on Bush's watch, ending his time just 0.1 points better than it had started it. By comparison, there were gigantic declines in the murder rate when Clinton and Obama were president. Of the three of them, at least, Bush did the worst job keeping us safe. In Obama's first five years, murder rates had already improved nine times as much as in Bush's full eight years, and the Clinton era had even faster improvement than that!

Osama Bin Laden declared war on the United States in 1996, and Clinton did nothing. Clinton did nothing when Al Qaeda and Iran took out our Embassies in Iran, he did nothing when they attacked Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia or when they attacked the USS Cole (not to mention allowing Iraq to toss the UN out in 98).

Eight months after that sack of shit left the White House, they slam planes into buildings killing roughly 3k American Citizens and you half baked [Unwelcome language removed] wits have the nerve to blame Bush?

[Unwelcome language removed] you. Obama has not made the world safer, he has made the world even worse.

So please stfu.

 

[Arkady]

The decline in abortions is no thanks to Obama.

What makes you think that? The rate at which people get abortions is based on a wide variety of factors. The very first factors to consider are the rates of unwanted pregnancy. Using teen pregnancy as a proxy for that, it appears unwanted pregnancies have dropped a great deal on Obama's watch. In fact, they're the lowest they've ever been in American history.

Towards the end of the Reagan/Bush socioeconomic disaster (when a whole series of conservative initiatives backfired leaving us with epic social problems), we hit an all-time high for teen births, and that rate has now fallen by over half. And that's not because of an uptick in abortions, since, as I pointed out, abortion rates have been falling fast.
Obama has pursued a number of policies designed to lower rates of unwanted pregnancy, including moving away from the counter-productive abstinence-only approach, and trying to make contraception more affordable by covering it in Obamacare plans. I assume you believe Obama's efforts had nothing to do with bringing about the very outcomes his efforts were designed to bring about, and that it's a mere coincidence that things have been improving so much lately, after having gotten so much worse in the Reagan/Bush years. But, that's the choice voters have in November 2016. If a Democrat is elected, they'll get desirable results. If a Republican gets elected, they'll get an army of earnest people explaining why it's not fair to blame the bad results on the president.

Anyway, preventing unwanted pregnancy is only one factor in reducing abortion. When unwanted pregnancies do happen, a woman has a choice to make, and it matters what the factors are that go into that decision. If she foresees a future of crushing poverty, in which she can't possibly support her child, or even feed it properly, abortion will look more tempting. If she foresees a future where Uncle Sam has her back, and at a bare minimum she can count on being able to afford nourishing meals and high-quality healthcare, she's going to be more likely to decide to take that unwanted pregnancy to term. It also matters whether she's facing a "slut shaming" culture, or a supportive one. If the surrounding culture is one that treats single moms as monsters, and which treats non-procreative sex as shameful, it's going to be tempting to abort that pregnancy before anyone knows about it. If the surrounding culture is not that intimidating on those issues, though, that temptation will be lessened.

There is a strong tendency for right-wingers to focus unproductively just on the pipe-dream of punishing women who flout their sexual taboos, rather than doing things with a reasonable chance of actually lowering the abortion rate. I'm a practical guy, so if I were eager to lower the abortion rate, I'd look at things that seem likely to do so, like lowering unwanted pregnancies and supporting single moms and poor families. But that's just me.

 

[Arkady]

Osama Bin Laden declared war on the United States in 1996, and Clinton did nothing.

Incorrect. It would be helpful if you did a little remedial reading on the topic before we engage on it, so I don't have to provide you the basics.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I chuckled when I heard that. If you had to pick one president in history who did the worst job keeping us safe, it would be Bush. It was under Bush that we suffered the biggest security lapse in our history, and a major American landmark was left a smoking ruin full of 3000 corpses.

7 years into Obama's presidency, and things are Bush's fault.

1 year into Bush's presidency, he has to own all of 9-11.

Got it

Meanwhile, it's correct there hasn't been a major homeland attack during Obama's presidency, but I'd say he's contributed negatively to all of the turmoil in the middle east.

He's just a weak man when it comes to foreign policy; Unconfident, looking to appease, worried about what European elites think. I think he's more worried about offending all middle easterners than protecting the lives of select groups of them.

He was owned in the Chinese pollution "negatiations", he was owned in the Iran deal, he was owned by the Castro regime.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'd love to negotiate my salary with Barack Obama. I'd bet the house that I get a at least a 25% raise... seriously.

 

[Arkady]

7 years into Obama's presidency, and things are Bush's fault.

1 year into Bush's presidency, he has to own all of 9-11.

He does not. There's plenty of blame to go around. But Bush's leadership in that first year was conspicuously incompetent. When Clarke and Tenet proposed putting al Qaeda on the defensive, Bush ignored them. When the Hart/Rudman commission provided an urgent suggestion to consolidate intelligence functions under a homeland security agency, he shelved their report with no action. When a PDB warned him Bin Laden was determined to strike in the US, he went on a month-long vacation to his Texas mansion. He made it to September without having held even a single "principals meeting" on the topic of terrorism. He was asleep at the switch. Did that end up mattering? Would Al Qaeda still have succeeded if we'd had a competent president that year? Perhaps. I'd even say "probably." But we didn't have a competent president, so we'll never know for sure.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'd love to negotiate my salary with Barack Obama. I'd bet the house that I get a at least a 25% raise... seriously.

There's no question he's a weak negotiator. His idea of dealing with the Republicans, for years, was to give them 90% of what they wanted as an opening gambit.... then he always acted surprised when they still insisted on fighting tooth and nail for every bit of that last 10%. So, I'd be less confident we got the best deal we could realistically hope to get with Iran if it was a bilateral negotiation. But it wasn't. It included people from each of the other most powerful nations in the world, and they all approved of the result.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Sure you are.

You realize how delusional the "Bush kept us safe" lie is, so you dodged the topic and babbled about abortion.

Fetus Fetish

What a joke. Bribed preachers made up a sin that's not even forbidden in the Bible just to trick Christians into voting for a Party that aborted their economic future.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Osama Bin Laden declared war on the United States in 1996, and Clinton did nothing. Clinton he did nothing when they attacked Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia or when they attacked the USS Cole (not to mention allowing Iraq to toss the UN out in 98).

Eight months after that sack of shit left the White House, they slam planes into buildings killing roughly 3k American Citizens and you have the nerve to blame Bush?

. Obama has not made the world safer, he has made the world even worse.

.

Hungover TANG Joyrides Playing Snoopy and the Red Baron

If the Chickenhawk sissyboy Rethuglicans had really believed that about Clinton, they would have retaliated against Islam as soon as their Heirguardsman and Darth Evader were inaugurated.