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freyasman

freyasman

Senator
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...istrial-case-over-2014-armed-standoff-n831526
From the link;
"In the case against the Bundys, the judge hinted last week that trouble was afoot. She sent the jury home to review sealed documents following closed-door hearings over complaints about the conduct of FBI and Bureau of Land Management agents during the standoff.

Jurors got a glimpse of the claims when Ryan Bundy, who represented himself, spoke at opening statements about seeing government snipers and surveillance cameras positioned on hilltops surrounding his family home in the days before armed supporters answered his family's calls for help.

Related: First Prison Term Handed Down in Bundy Armed Standoff in Nevada

A whistleblower memo by a lead U.S. Bureau of Land Management investigator that was released last week alleges widespread bad judgment, bias and misconduct, as well as "likely policy, ethical and legal violations among senior and supervisory staff" in the days leading up to the standoff.

The memo said agents who planned and oversaw the cattle roundup mocked and displayed clear prejudice against the Bundys, their supporters and Mormons.

The investigator, Larry Wooten, said he was removed from the investigation last February after he complained to the U.S. attorney's office in Nevada.

The judge freed the Bundy sons and Payne to house arrest during the trial after nearly two years in jail. Cliven Bundy refused the judge's offer, with his lawyer saying the patriarch was holding out for acquittal"
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/20/us/cliven-bundy-mistrail.html
From the link;
"The Bundys had long alleged misconduct by federal agents and prosecutors, and powerful evidence for their claims emerged last week in The Oregonian newspaper, which made public a complaint that a Bureau of Land Management agent had filed with the Justice Department. The agent alleged unprofessionalism, bias, heavy-handed tactics, and withholding of evidence by his colleagues during and after the standoff, and he said that after he informed prosecutors, he was removed from the case.

For the Bundys, who have long argued that the trial was stacked against them, the judge’s announcement was a vindication of their beliefs.

Andrea Parker, the wife of Eric Parker, an ally of the Bundys who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor related to the standoff, said, “It’s great that they’re showing the malicious prosecution that’s been going on — by the prosecution, the F.B.I. and the B.L.M. It’s finally getting out there, it’s something we weren’t afforded or allowed at our trial.”
 
Sounds like a typical Obama cartel operation, headed by a despot who complained about people clinging to their guns and Bibles. Clearly he had his jack-booted thugs act accordingly.
 
The Thinker said:
Sounds like a typical Obama cartel operation, headed by a despot who complained about people clinging to their guns and Bibles. Clearly he had his jack-booted thugs act accordingly.
Click to expand...

How many years should someone leasing land from the government be allowed to ignore demand for payment for the agreed upon amounts?
 
freyasman said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...istrial-case-over-2014-armed-standoff-n831526
From the link;
"In the case against the Bundys, the judge hinted last week that trouble was afoot. She sent the jury home to review sealed documents following closed-door hearings over complaints about the conduct of FBI and Bureau of Land Management agents during the standoff.

Jurors got a glimpse of the claims when Ryan Bundy, who represented himself, spoke at opening statements about seeing government snipers and surveillance cameras positioned on hilltops surrounding his family home in the days before armed supporters answered his family's calls for help.

Related: First Prison Term Handed Down in Bundy Armed Standoff in Nevada

A whistleblower memo by a lead U.S. Bureau of Land Management investigator that was released last week alleges widespread bad judgment, bias and misconduct, as well as "likely policy, ethical and legal violations among senior and supervisory staff" in the days leading up to the standoff.

The memo said agents who planned and oversaw the cattle roundup mocked and displayed clear prejudice against the Bundys, their supporters and Mormons.

The investigator, Larry Wooten, said he was removed from the investigation last February after he complained to the U.S. attorney's office in Nevada.

The judge freed the Bundy sons and Payne to house arrest during the trial after nearly two years in jail. Cliven Bundy refused the judge's offer, with his lawyer saying the patriarch was holding out for acquittal"
Click to expand...

All this so Hillary could sell Uranium to Russia..........

lets see how funny MV thinks it is when feds raid his Fast Food Joint in PA........
 
middleview said:
How many years should someone leasing land from the government be allowed to ignore demand for payment for the agreed upon amounts?
Click to expand...

LINK to Contract.............why does government own land that they don't have a right to own..............where's the PORT............
 
middleview said:
How many years should someone leasing land from the government be allowed to ignore demand for payment for the agreed upon amounts?
Click to expand...
If you have been using it freely for a century and then someone comes along and starts demanding you pay them for using rights you have always had, that is not a dispute over "agreed upon" payments, it's extortion.
You can't equate fees imposed with consensual contracts that both parties entered into willingly.
images
 
freyasman said:
If you have been using it freely for a century and then someone comes along and starts demanding you pay them for using rights you have always had, that is not a dispute over "agreed upon" payments, it's extortion.
You can't equate fees imposed with consensual contracts that both parties entered into willingly.
images
Click to expand...

Bundy has not been grazing his cattle on federal land for a century. He got a permit in 1954 to graze cattle there. He paid grazing fees until 1993 and quit paying the fees. His permit was canceled in 1994. Since then he has accumulated about $1 million in unpaid grazing fees and court ordered fines.
 
the government mocking farmers and religious folks?

say it isn't so!

Wait - isn't there a constitutional amendment that gives the government the right to take your stuff without a court hearing, and to insult your faith?

It must be hidden behind a penumbra.
 
The Thinker said:
Sounds like a typical Obama cartel operation, headed by a despot who complained about people clinging to their guns and Bibles. Clearly he had his jack-booted thugs act accordingly.
Click to expand...

Or Harry Reid. He and his son Rory we're cooking up a deal to sell or lease the property for a solar farm.

Chinese company if I remember correctly
 
https://www.thenewamerican.com/usne...ice-after-whistleblower-exposes-federal-thugs
From the link;
"But now, with the facts coming out, prominent officials from the region want answers. Washington Representative Matt Shea, who was elected as the House Republican caucus chairman this year, explained that the BLM controls almost half a million acres of land in his state. “When an agency has these sorts of dramatic allegations against it, obviously I'm very concerned,” he told The New American in a phone interview. “Mr Wooten was lead investigator — this isn't some low-level disgruntled employee. What he alleges here is essentially unethical, illegal behavior. He also alludes to the fact that government was aggressor, not Bundy, and that there was even a kill book kept by Special-agent-in-charge Love that bragged about driving three people to commit suicide.” Especially concerning was the confirmation that snipers were employed, contradicting government claims denying or downplaying their presence.

A second memo cited by Representative Shea was written by a BLM assistant special-agent-in-charge about Wooten's allegations. In that memo, it was revealed that Wooten had outlined a series of “critical vulnerabilities” in the BLM's case against the Bundy family, a family that was terrorized by the agency for allegedly not paying grazing fees allegedly due to the feds (the Bundy family denies wrongdoing and insists they have always complied with the law). The first vulnerability identified was that the BLM was “heavy handed” and “cruel,” with Shea pointing to the BLM's killing of cattle, killing of bulls in an effort to destroy herd, the establishment of a “First Amendment zone” for protesters, the tazering of older ladies, the harassing of the public on a public right of way, and more.

The second critical vulnerability was that BLM lacked legitimate law-enforcement authority in the case. Indeed, more than a few legal experts and scholars have questioned the legitimacy and constitutionality of the entire agency, as well as its dubious claims to reign supreme over vast areas of American land. Vulnerability number three, “probably the one that should live for all time,” as Shea put it, is that BLM is a “poor manager of resources” such as grazing areas, the memo said. “We all knew that already, but to have this admission that BLM can't even perform the mission for which it was formed is really important,” Shea said, emphasizing the constitutional and pragmatic concerns surrounding an agency that has been plagued by controversy and scandal for years.

“I can sum this all up in a few principles,” Shea continued. “No one is above law. Bureaucrats are servants of people, not other way around. And third, we are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. Fourth, a sniper rifle is not due process. This continued aggression is not just breach of trust with American people, but it's BLM trying to establish itself as a law-enforcement agency, which is not all right.” Shea also pointed to previous reports in The New American magazine highlighting, among other issues, a blistering 2012 ruling by U.S. District Court of Nevada Chief Judge Robert Jones exposing what he described as a “conspiracy” by the BLM and other federal agencies, involving “abhorrent” abuses of power, to destroy the Hage ranching family. There appears to be a pattern here, critics of the agency say."
 
middleview said:
Bundy has not been grazing his cattle on federal land for a century. He got a permit in 1954 to graze cattle there. He paid grazing fees until 1993 and quit paying the fees. His permit was canceled in 1994. Since then he has accumulated about $1 million in unpaid grazing fees and court ordered fines.
Click to expand...
That family was on and worked that land for generations before the BLM was even established.
You're trying to pretend that a shakedown is legitimate just because it's being done by people who are on the federal payroll.
Bullshit. It's just a [Unwelcome language removed] shakedown.
 
freyasman said:
That family was on and worked that land for generations before the BLM was even established.
You're trying to pretend that a shakedown is legitimate just because it's being done by people who are on the federal payroll.
Bullshit. It's just a [Unwelcome language removed] shakedown.
Click to expand...

If the land was yours and you'd signed an agreement with me that I will pay you for letting me graze my cattle on that land and I'd paid you for 40 years and suddenly quit paying...what would you do? If I then claimed "hereditary rights" to the land...You'd say...well, ok...it's yours for free?
 
middleview said:
If the land was yours and you'd signed an agreement with me that I will pay you for letting me graze my cattle on that land and I'd paid you for 40 years and suddenly quit paying...what would you do? If I then claimed "hereditary rights" to the land...You'd say...well, ok...it's yours for free?
Click to expand...
Ownership of land has been determined traditionally by who claims it and then has the power to hold it. Thats how the fed got most of the land they claim today, assert that it's their's and make anyone who disagrees fight them for it. They threatened to use force against anyone who disputes their claim. And that worked by and large...... until now. Because it turns out that there are a whole lot of people in this country who are unhappy with the federal government for various reasons and they will be happy to show up armed and have that fight. The fed was extremely unprepared for that reaction.
 
freyasman said:
Ownership of land has been determined traditionally by who claims it and then has the power to hold it. Thats how the fed got most of the land they claim today, assert that it's their's and make anyone who disagrees fight them for it. They threatened to use force against anyone who disputes their claim. And that worked by and large...... until now. Because it turns out that there are a whole lot of people in this country who are unhappy with the federal government for various reasons and they will be happy to show up armed and have that fight. The fed was extremely unprepared for that reaction.
Click to expand...

The land the Bundy's have been grazing on was purchased by the federal government. It doesn't belong to the Bundys and never has.

That people showed up hoping to get a chance to shoot at federal Marshalls is indeed something they weren't prepared for. Rebellions like that have been rare. The Whisky rebellion or Shay's rebellion...even the Civil war...were cases where people felt like government was overstepping the legitimate boundaries.

I don't see a way that society works with people like Bundy making the rules. Sounds like chaos to me.
 
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