I, too, am in favor of reparations.

[Spamature]

I heard that California is seriously considering Reparations for descendants of African slaves. I live in California and I have all my family paperwork proving which of my ancestors were enslaved.
I hear the amount will be $225,000.00 for each descendant. I'll keep you all posted.

I think it a terrible idea. It's piecemeal reparations by individual state charities.
You can't just give single individuals money and then expect them to fix the harms done to an entire people by their own govt over hundreds of years. Also, it is something black Americans need to do for themselves if it is ever going to have a lasting impact.

 

[protectionist]

Then make a thread how you are against the already distributed reparations for Native Americans.
I have already said if you think whites are entitled to reparation for what you believe the govt has done to them then fine. I support your right to believe and would ask you how you expect to achieve this goal.


So tell me how you think the govt should go about repairing the damage you claim it did to the whites in America ?

The government should fine all those who promoted and supported Affirmative Action, over the past 58 years. That money should go to white victims.

Blacks have no call to get reparations$$. They have been the beneficiaries of racial discrimination.

 

[Spamature]

The government should fine all those who promoted and supported Affirmative Action, over the past 58 years. That money should go to white victims.

Blacks have no call to get reparations$$. They have been the beneficiaries of racial discrimination.

So you want to fine all people who supported it for exercising their free speech and give it white people, for what white people, did to other white people ?

Yet, black people who didn't do anything to anyone, and suffered worse treatment, and will be included among those who are fined, don't deserve anything at all ?

You are actually making blacks the victims twice. First their original mistreatment and then being force to pay for the mistreatment whites did to each other.

WTF ?

 

[Boltlady]

You're right---it would be impossible to go back thru history and right every perceived wrong. But, the 250 year enslavement and 100 year Jim Crow segregation of African-Americans can be righted. That's what Affirmative Action is for. It's also what slavery reparations are for.
As far as merit dictating everyone's progress, well, we both know that's hogwash. "We Whites" is how you started your post upthread. Indeed. Thank you for providing the answer.

Affirmative action is there to give advantages to people who either can't or don't want to provide them for themselves. I used the the term "We Whites" because I don't know of affirmative action being used for the benefit of any whites.

Given that there are so many people of color who have made something of themselves on their own it seems untoward that some would expect people who had absolutely no connection to the fate of their ancestry to pay for them to be able to get something for nothing. There cannot be much of a sense of pride in that.

 

[Spamature]

Affirmative action is there to give advantages to people who either can't or don't want to provide them for themselves. I used the the term "We Whites" because I don't know of affirmative action being used for the benefit of any whites.

Given that there are so many people of color who have made something of themselves on their own it seems untoward that some would expect people who had absolutely no connection to the fate of their ancestry to pay for them to be able to get something for nothing. There cannot be much of a sense of pride in that.

Discrimination stole opportunity and it did seem like the people doing it had a sense of pride while they did it. They openly promoted it and spurned those who would not participate in it. It still happens to this day. Also white women are the major beneficiaries of AA.

People are fight off muggers everyday on their own. IT seem untoward that some would expect all of us to pay for police protection for people who won't defend themselves, when they aren't the ones being mugged. I can't see much of a sense of pride in that. Or does that sound ridiculous ?

What is really ridiculous is constantly harping affirmative action in a thread about reparations for chattel slavery.

 

[Sunset Rose]

I think it a terrible idea. It's piecemeal reparations by individual state charities.
You can't just give single individuals money and then expect them to fix the harms done to an entire people by their own govt over hundreds of years. Also, it is something black Americans need to do for themselves if it is ever going to have a lasting impact.

We will have to agree to disagree on this issue, @Spamature. It's OK. I still respect you.

 

[Sunset Rose]

Affirmative action is there to give advantages to people who either can't or don't want to provide them for themselves. I used the the term "We Whites" because I don't know of affirmative action being used for the benefit of any whites.

Given that there are so many people of color who have made something of themselves on their own it seems untoward that some would expect people who had absolutely no connection to the fate of their ancestry to pay for them to be able to get something for nothing. There cannot be much of a sense of pride in that.

Affirmative Action was created for WHITE people in the US Constitution. That document provided everything a White citizen (White, land owning males anyway) Would need to do anything in life he wanted to do. Total and complete freedom.
So what did you say about "Affirmative Action is there to give advantages to people who either can't or don't want to provide for themselves?" Can you unpack that for me?
Also, White women have benefitted more from the current day Affirmative Action laws than African-Americans have.

 

[Sunset Rose]

Discrimination stole opportunity and it did seem like the people doing it had a sense of pride while they did it. They openly promoted it and spurned those who would not participate in it. It still happens to this day. Also white women are the major beneficiaries of AA.

People are fight off muggers everyday on their own. IT seem untoward that some would expect all of us to pay for police protection for people who won't defend themselves, when they aren't the ones being mugged. I can't see much of a sense of pride in that. Or does that sound ridiculous ?

What is really ridiculous is constantly harping affirmative action in a thread about reparations for chattel slavery.

You're right. This thread is about reparations, not Affirmative Action. How did we get sidetracked?

 

[Spamature]

You're right. This thread is about reparations, not Affirmative Action. How did we get sidetracked?

Because almost every group to come to this country has faced discrimination.
While only one group was ever subjected to the horrors of American Chattel Slavery.

So some want to change the subject to make themselves the victim.

 

[Spamature]

We will have to agree to disagree on this issue, @Spamature. It's OK. I still respect you.

Do you have an opinion on the top post ?
It would be informative to hear what about it you disagree with.

 

[Sunset Rose]

The real question has always been how to get it done.

The other thread in this forum shows the length and breath of denial and obstruction such a plan would face. Whether it comes from ignorance or malevolence, it is and always has been the unwavering obstacle in the road to the resolution to America's greatest injustice.

How it could be and should be done is based upon a very simple idea.

From 1789 when the US Constitution was enacted until the 13 Amendment was enacted, the established govt of the United States of American allowed for the enslavement of its own people. That amounts to 75 yrs of 100% taxation on enslaved blacks while they went without representation from the US govt.

This is the premise under which reparations should be enacted.

For those 75yrs, black Americans should be allowed to repair the harm that has been done by slavery.
This is not a plan that addresses discrimination. That issue is too complicated and runs through too many intersections of race, class, and American social structure, to include in the addressing the issue of slavery.

The idea is simple. It would cost nothing, and it would be a huge benefit to the nation as a whole.
No taxation with full unadulterated representation for a period of 75yrs.
But this too would have a different structure than you might think.

The truth be told, the main obstacle to reparations is not the money, but who benefits from the reparations process.
And the obvious fact of that is that unless whites can see a benefit for themselves in reparations, the action will forever be opposed by that group.
Funny thing about that, is that whites can not help but benefit from it, nor would they even consider not benefitting from it should it be enacted.
But the easiest course to take is to make that benefit apparent to those who have the most sway, Corporate America.

Here is a flow chart and its breakdown.
You start in the bottom left corner.
It starts with blacks paying for their own reparations with their own tax dollars.
It's a loan on money that is actually owed.
This would allow both sides to be okay with the idea that those who oppose reparations
Those who oppose reparation can still say that they never gave blacks anything.
And blacks can always tell those who opposed it the very same, you never paid a dime of the money anyway.

Not only that, but it's structured to bring about $5 trillion in investment into the US economy in the first round.
Business in America would be overjoyed in participating in such a profit making scheme when they partner with the effort.
Because their partnership would also pay NO TAXES to any kind, and which would lead to most of those taxes returned to them by meeting certain employment and investment goal objectives.




View attachment 73398View attachment 73399

I do not agree with this solution. I am in favor of financial payments, the way California is planning to do it. When the slavemasters received the fruit of the slave's labor it wasn't in the form of tax relief. It was in the form of CASH. So, that is how it should be repaid.
Thank you for giving serious thought to reparations, though. Lots of people just spout off rightwing rhetoric on this subject.

 

[Spamature]

I do not agree with this solution. I am in favor of financial payments, the way California is planning to do it. When the slavemasters received the fruit of the slave's labor it wasn't in the form of tax relief. It was in the form of CASH. So, that is how it should be repaid.
Thank you for giving serious thought to reparations, though. Lots of people just spout off rightwing rhetoric on this subject.

Sure you would, and every excuse I have to bat down would be used and they would be legitimate issues if it were cash payments. That is also the reason it should not use monies where someone else can say that it's their money going to blacks. That would only engender anger in the rest of the country who feels something was taken from them and given to blacks. History and righteousness will be meaningless in comparison to that idea.

In addition to that, money needs to circulate through a community several times before it leaves that community if it is going to create better financial conditions in that community. There isn't the infrastructure and capacity in the black community to absorb a sudden and large influx of cash that would entail reparations. It would be like pouring it into a buckets with holes in the bottom, most of it would be gone from the black community in a generation. You have to organize something that helps future generations, not just this one.

The goal here is to build that bucket and make sure it is self sustaining. Blacks will not get a second bite at the apple. Unless there is a plan that blacks themselves control, the same resentment you see in this thread will would twice as hard to make black reparations a failure, all the while telling blacks and the world its failure is the fault of blacks. Cash payments will not be under the control of blacks. They will just be in a line with their hands out. As long as you have to come to someone for what you need, they can control and oppress you at their leisure. You're still just their children, and not your own people.

In short you can't get what you want but you might be able to get what you need.

 

[Sunset Rose]

Sure you would, and every excuse I have to bat down would be used and they would be legitimate issues if it were cash payments. That is also the reason it should not use monies where someone else can say that it's their money going to blacks. That would only engender anger in the rest of the country who feels something was taken from them and given to blacks. History and righteousness will be meaningless in comparison to that idea.

In addition to that, money needs to circulate through a community several times before it leaves that community if it is going to create better financial conditions in that community. There isn't the infrastructure and capacity in the black community to absorb a sudden and large influx of cash that would entail reparations. It would be like pouring it into a buckets with holes in the bottom, most of it would be gone from the black community in a generation. You have to organize something that helps future generations, not just this one.

The goal here is to build that bucket and make sure it is self sustaining. Blacks will not get a second bite at the apple. Unless there is a plan that blacks themselves control, the same resentment you see in this thread will would twice as hard to make black reparations a failure, all the while telling blacks and the world its failure is the fault of blacks. Cash payments will not be under the control of blacks. They will just be in a line with their hands out. As long as you have to come to someone for what you need, they can control and oppress you at their leisure. You're still just their children, and not your own people.

In short you can't get what you want but you might be able to get what you need.

@Spamature, are you saying you don't believe Black people know how to use their money wisely, so therefore they don't deserve reparations? That is the understanding I'm getting. Black people will know how to use their money, just as well as the slave masters knew how to use theirs.
As far as White people being angry because they think money is taken from them and given to Blacks, well....
Did you know there were White people who got very angry during the Civil Rights movement? Some were angry enough to kill Black people. Remember the 4 little girls who died in the church bombing? Remember Medgar Evers, the NAACP leader? He was gunned down in his own driveway. Remember how they assassinated Martin Luther King? Do you think we shouldn't have had the Civil Rights movement just because some Whites got angry? Please.
That is the least of my worries.

 

[protectionist]

So you want to fine all people who supported it for exercising their free speech and give it white people, for what white people, did to other white people ?

Yet, black people who didn't do anything to anyone, and suffered worse treatment, and will be included among those who are fined, don't deserve anything at all ?

You are actually making blacks the victims twice. First their original mistreatment and then being force to pay for the mistreatment whites did to each other.

WTF ?

1. Racial discrimination (AA) is not "free speech. It is illegal violation of the 1964 US Civil Rights Act.

2. Give it to ALL white people, since ALL of them were victim of the systemic racism.

3. White people who did AA, should be the ones to pay the reparations, in addition to anyone else who did it.

4. Thos who should be fined, are those (anyone) who promoted or supported AA, and therefore bear guilt.

5. FALSE! Nobody is victimized twice. Whites who were victimized should get reparations. Nobody else has been victimized (exceot that in certain AA programs other non-blacks (Asian, Hispanics, et) were victimized too when only blacks were the beneficiaries. If they can show it, they should get reparations too.

6. Blacks who promoted or supported AA should pay reparations, as well as anybody else who is guilty of that. And blacks dont have any mistreatment. They have been beneficiaries of AA for 58 years.

 

[Dawg]

Dawg, you could be a great poster if you would educate yourself a little bit. If you educate yourself you'll know:
1) During slavery Democrat vs. Republican didn't mean anything. Slavery was based on RACE---not on political parties.
2) Most Blacks who "owned" slaves were ex-slaves who purchased their own family members.

It's not I that needs educated, it's YOU and any and all slave plantations I know of were owned by Dems, that's a fact and Blacks didn't just purchase family members............google black slave owners in SC

Joe is playing racism

Biden instructs federal agencies to be more racist (msn.com)

 

[Dawg]

I heard that California is seriously considering Reparations for descendants of African slaves. I live in California and I have all my family paperwork proving which of my ancestors were enslaved.
I hear the amount will be $225,000.00 for each descendant. I'll keep you all posted.

Cali can't afford it, don't count ya chicks before they hatch

 

[Spamature]

@Spamature, are you saying you don't believe Black people know how to use their money wisely, so therefore they don't deserve reparations? That is the understanding I'm getting. Black people will know how to use their money, just as well as the slave masters knew how to use theirs.
As far as White people being angry because they think money is taken from them and given to Blacks, well....
Did you know there were White people who got very angry during the Civil Rights movement? Some were angry enough to kill Black people. Remember the 4 little girls who died in the church bombing? Remember Medgar Evers, the NAACP leader? He was gunned down in his own driveway. Remember how they assassinated Martin Luther King? Do you think we shouldn't have had the Civil Rights movement just because some Whites got angry? Please.
That is the least of my worries.

NO ! I am saying there has to be a plan. Because there sure as hell will be plans to make sure it fails from those that oppose it. Making it rain is not a strategy that protects and improves black people.

Yes whites were angry about civil rights. So, they implemented the Southern Strategy of making sure govt policy hurts blacks more than whites, and the War on Drugs, which has stripped millions of blacks of their voting rights, and many other civil benefits, and constitutional rights. Are you going the say that those same efforts, attitudes and intentions won't resurface in some other govt action in the future from angry whites ? They are the first, not last of your worries.

Again, the other things mention would likely happen, because the govt doesn't have the money. It would have to borrow. Dumping that much individual liquidity into the system would cause inflation and other economic problems. These are the two main reasons why the reparations are financially structured the way they are in that chart,
not because blacks won't know how to handle the money.

 

[Dawg]

NO ! I am saying there has to be a plan. Because there sure as hell will be plans to make sure it fails from those that oppose it. Making it rain is not a strategy that protects and improves black people.

Yes whites were angry about civil rights. So, they implemented the Southern Strategy of making sure govt policy hurts blacks more than whites, and the War on Drugs, which has stripped millions of blacks of their voting rights, and many other civil benefits, and constitutional rights. Are you going the say that those same efforts, attitudes and intentions won't resurface in some other govt action in the future from angry whites ? They are the first, not last of your worries.

Again, the other things mention would likely happen, because the govt doesn't have the money. It would have to borrow. Dumping that much individual liquidity into the system would cause inflation and other economic problems. These are the two main reasons why the reparations are financially structured the way they are in that chart,
not because blacks won't know how to handle the money.

Dopehead Whites lose same Constitutional Rights
Are you saying there's more Black dopeheads!

 

[Dawg]

NO ! I am saying there has to be a plan. Because there sure as hell will be plans to make sure it fails from those that oppose it. Making it rain is not a strategy that protects and improves black people.

Yes whites were angry about civil rights. So, they implemented the Southern Strategy of making sure govt policy hurts blacks more than whites, and the War on Drugs, which has stripped millions of blacks of their voting rights, and many other civil benefits, and constitutional rights. Are you going the say that those same efforts, attitudes and intentions won't resurface in some other govt action in the future from angry whites ? They are the first, not last of your worries.

Again, the other things mention would likely happen, because the govt doesn't have the money. It would have to borrow. Dumping that much individual liquidity into the system would cause inflation and other economic problems. These are the two main reasons why the reparations are financially structured the way they are in that chart,
not because blacks won't know how to handle the money.

Insane San Francisco slavery reparations scheme would take years just to count (msn.com)

When will you pony up reparations in LA

 

[protectionist]

I heard that California is seriously considering Reparations for descendants of African slaves. I live in California and I have all my family paperwork proving which of my ancestors were enslaved.
I hear the amount will be $225,000.00 for each descendant. I'll keep you all posted.

And you are low-level enough to actually take that political payoff ? How old are you ? 175 ? Old enough to have BEEN a slave ?