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Is 15-16 Miles Per Gallon Criminal?

Zoar

Zoar

Governor
The human race is facing climate change, massive increase in cancers, poor air, soil and water quality. So much caused by pollution and the use of fossil fuel. In essence, we are killing ourselves with the fossil fuels and chemicals we use.

The smart thing would be for us to radically decrease use and radically INCREASE use of sustainable, renewables means which depend LESS on fossil fuels.

Most scientists and 98% of climatologists would agree.

In another thread, Sgt was boasting about buying a brand new Toyota J Cruiser. I looked up its MPG.. . The automatic is 16 to 20 MPG. THE MANUAL VERSION IS 15 TO 18 MILES PER GALLON!!!!

That to me is criminal, we possess the technology to get much much much better MPG than this. To buy crap that gets 15 or 16 MPG is just plain criminal. Both by the automakers and by any consumer who encourages that atrocious consumption by giving the automakers MONEY to keep producing shitt like that!
 
It's funny how the "Children" want you to think about the future when it comes to the air quality...like that matters, yet when it comes to the debt...which has increased 5 trillion under Obama and 2 trillion while Democrats controlled the House and Senate under Bush....the spend wrecklessly like theywere driving a car that gets 4 mpg...just wasting away our dollars, making them worthless and our credit rating along with it.

The irresponsible are trying to tell us we need to be responsible...we just laugh at you and we are laughing now...get real.
 
You cheered. or sat silently by while Bush and Reagan ran up the tab.

Your claim the Obama ran up 5 trillion is deliberately misleading. 1.7 (nearly half of your number), was Mr Bush' last fiscal year.
 
Th FJ Cruiser isn't particularly practical or utilitarian.

It's a fake Land Rover that will probably never be driven off of hard pavement, and offeres no more in terms of real utility or comfort than a Cruze or a Honda Civic.
 
You right wingers SCREAM and run around with your hair on fire about the National Debt and make all kinds of analogies when in fact MOST people are unaffected by the debt (and in a deep recession most countries are stimulating their economy and adding debt because it PREVENTS a DEPRESSION).

THAT has no bearing or resemblence at all to POLLUTION or DEPENDENCE and EXCESSIVE consumption of fossil fuels and messing up the world. That is not just some future thing. It AFFECTS us NOW!

Buying a vehicle TODAY that gets 15 to 16 MPG means burning a lot of fossil fuels. There are far better ways to go. Why be so unconscious!???
 
Drumcollie said:
It's funny how the "Children" want you to think about the future when it comes to the air quality...like that matters, yet when it comes to the debt...which has increased 5 trillion under Obama and 2 trillion while Democrats controlled the House and Senate under Bush....the spend wrecklessly like theywere driving a car that gets 4 mpg...just wasting away our dollars, making them worthless and our credit rating along with it.

The irresponsible are trying to tell us we need to be responsible...we just laugh at you and we are laughing now...get real.
Click to expand...

Your debt problems and so the rest of our debt problems are seated in the debts uilt through the very expensive Vietnam War. Back up
..............

And in connection with the theme of this thread , look at how that little Land was poisoned by the USA.
 
I suppose that depends on whose driving it.
If its criminal to buy cars below 15 MPG, we're going to need to rethink the entire Presidential motorcade :)
 
A 15-passenger Econoline that returns 15mpg, is doing just fine, assuming most of its mileage represents a full load.

It'd be cool if we could assign some sort of "efficiency factor" to the various vehicles based not just on how many people then can carry, but how many they routinely carry. By that measure, my 5-place sedan that returns me 28mpg whilst carrying but one person most of the time, wouldn't be nearly so efficient as say...my stepdaughter's minivan that gets maybe 22mpg, but hauls 5-6 people around most of the time.
 
GM marketed a hybrid Tahoe(and some other SUVs and trucks), we couldnt give them away. Cadillac has an 8 passenger Escalade that gets 20 mpg city and 23 highway, again, folks that buy these vehicles just dont care about mpg, see some on this site that burn premium, wont buy a hybrid and constantly complain about fuel costs.
 
It is amazing how on the same planet TWO DIFFERENT realities can exist:

I went to Denmark recently. You see NO giant Truck-Boat-Trucks (Giant SUV's and TRUCKS).... none. The vehicles that people drive get 48 to 78 MILES PER GALLON!

I went to Texas even more recently. Everywhere you see giant Trucks and SUV's and one person in them. Average is 14 or 15 MPG.

People in Texas act like a person could NOT possible survive without these giants pigs, they truly cannot believe anyone could survive.

In Denmark people see the efficient vehicle as just plain smart.
 
I have seen tons of folks down-sizing from Tahoes and Suburbans to Traverses and Equinoxes, its slow., but it is happening.
Car sales are really strong in the high mileage category, Cruze, Sonic and Spark are flying off the lot(of course the 12,990 price tag is helping the Spark) I am now driving the new Malibu ECar, plenty of power and 37 mpg in a mid-size, I love it.
 
OldGaffer said:
I have seen tons of folks down-sizing from Tahoes and Suburbans to Traverses and Equinoxes, its slow., but it is happening.
Car sales are really strong in the high mileage category, Cruze, Sonic and Spark are flying off the lot(of course the 12,990 price tag is helping the Spark) I am now driving the new Malibu ECar, plenty of power and 37 mpg in a mid-size, I love it.
Click to expand...

Two questions Gaffer....what do you average with "E-Assist"? And, all other things being equal, what would recommend the Malibu vs. a Fusion full-hybrid?
 
Same set of questions. The reviews on the E-assist GM cars have not been good. Many reviewers say the Malibu, LaCrosse and Regal get nowhere near their rated milage in their tests. I do make some allowances for this, and car magazine testers rarely, if ever, drive normally.

However, it has been my experience that most people don't get their actual rated milage.

The exception, my Toyota Prius (the first imported car I ever owned), which ROUTINELY exceeds its rated milage in all types of driving. I've got 100K worth of completly worry free experience, and I'm still on my first set of brakes.

I would like ot buy American next time. And I'd like something a bit larger and smoother. The LaCrosse and Malibu have been on my list. But I hesitate because of the reviews.

BTW, Is GM going to market the Cruze Eco diesel, like it does in the rest of the world, or not?????
 
TomFitz said:
Same set of questions. The reviews on the E-assist GM cars have not been good. Many reviewers say the Malibu, LaCrosse and Regal get nowhere near their rated milage in their tests. I do make some allowances for this, and car magazine testers rarely, if ever, drive normally.

However, it has been my experience that most people don't get their actual rated milage.

The exception, my Toyota Prius (the first imported car I ever owned), which ROUTINELY exceeds its rated milage in all types of driving. I've got 100K worth of completly worry free experience, and I'm still on my first set of brakes.

I would like ot buy American next time. And I'd like something a bit larger and smoother. The LaCrosse and Malibu have been on my list. But I hesitate because of the reviews.

BTW, Is GM going to market the Cruze Eco diesel, like it does in the rest of the world, or not?????
Click to expand...

I'm that mythical driver who always seems to get exactly the same mileage as is quoted on the window sticker. Maybe I should apply for a job with whatever agency tests the cars.
 
Anyone buying a vehicle for a daily DRIVER (mostly one person) and it is rated at 15 or 16 MPG, yeah that is criminal.
 
I am getting 26-27 mpg city driving(my average speed is like 25 mph overall), I have not taken a trip to get a fair highway mpg yet .I have a lead foot and I can tell you that the Malibu 4 cylinder with e assist will burn rubber under the right conditions, I was getting over 30 mpg on my Cruze under the same driving conditions, but my wife and granddaughter like riding in the Malibu a lot more, better ride, more room.Bottom line, the Cruze is a better commuter car, the Malibu is a better family car. IMO the Malibu drives and rides better than a Camry, and the LaCrosse crushes it in style and pizzaz. Go take a LaCrosse with the Touring package for a test drive and you wont look at a Camry.
 
So you want every individual to own at least three cars?

Um, i get it that you work in the industry however the thread is about criminality (or not) of people who make or buy a vehicle that gets 15-16 MPG. Can you answer that one?
 
Most families own two cars, I always have had two cars since 1967 when I got married. When I was young and single, I liked sporty cars, my first new car was a Barracuda Formula S, 1966 model. Had to buy 35 cent a gallon Premium for it too. I dont mind being practical and driving a good gas mileage vehicle, but I still have to give some attention to style and pizzaz, I like the LTZ Cruze and the 2LT Malibu, I am spoiled with heated leather and high end stereo and electronics.I am a free market guy on gas mileage, anyone that wants to buy a car that gets shitty mileage, its ok with me. We sell a lot of trucks that dont do well on gas mileage, especially 3/4 and 1 ton work trucks. A guy can buy a diesel that gets better mileage but he pays about 10 grand in premium for the engine and transmission. No free lunch, everything is a trade off.I was glad to see Obama raise the mpg requirements over the next few years, that is the only way to move mileage up fast enough to help. I remember a new 1973 Country Squire Wagon I had, it had a 429 cu in engine, burned premium and got 6 mpg, now that sucked even at 35 cents a gallon.
 
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