Mind Games

[Boca]

For how many years have we been told if Republicans don't get on the immigration/amnesty bandwagon they are finished as a political party? Democrats in particular were pushing that meme - as if somehow the world had turned upside down and they had the best interests of the Republican Party at heart? That notion was laughably suspicious all along. And yes, even some Republicans joined the chorus. John McCain in particular.

So...how is it even posssible that Republicans have the edge on the issue in a recent poll? Because it was a lie; something that comes easily to Democrats.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/gop-has-edge-on-immigration-in-midterms-110925.html


Nearly two-thirds of likely voters in battleground races this fall disapprove of President Barack Obama’s handling of immigration, according to a new POLITICO poll ..... the poll found that 35 percent of voters in the most competitive House and Senate races this fall said they approved of how Obama has dealt with immigration, compared with 64 percent who said they disapproved of the president’s handling of the issue. And by a narrow margin, more voters said they trust the GOP over Democrats on immigration.

It was a mind game and a lie to begin with. Democrats weren't about to be alone in granting citizenship to millions of illegal immigrants. They had to have Republicans on board. It could have been done in the first two years when Democrats held the White House, the House, and the Senate, but it wasn't and for the same reaon....they weren't about to go it alone....it would be political suicide.

And now Obama hopes to mitigate the damage already done to Democrats by postponing any action on amnesty till after the elections. Given the 2 to 1 Republican advantage on this issue in "the most competitive House and Senate races" it may be too little to late

 

[MrMike]

They've been snookered by Democrats into believing that. Basically Republicans were/are helping the Democrats stack the ballot box against themselves.

 

[bdtex]

For how many years have we been told if Republicans don't get on the immigration/amnesty bandwagon they are finished as a political party? Democrats in particular were pushing that meme - as if somehow the world had turned upside down and they had the best interests of the Republican Party at heart? That notion was laughably suspicious all along. And yes, even some Republicans joined the chorus. John McCain in particular.

So...how is it even posssible that Republicans have the edge on the issue in a recent poll? Because it was a lie; something that comes easily to Democrats.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/gop-has-edge-on-immigration-in-midterms-110925.html


Nearly two-thirds of likely voters in battleground races this fall disapprove of President Barack Obama’s handling of immigration, according to a new POLITICO poll ..... the poll found that 35 percent of voters in the most competitive House and Senate races this fall said they approved of how Obama has dealt with immigration, compared with 64 percent who said they disapproved of the president’s handling of the issue. And by a narrow margin, more voters said they trust the GOP over Democrats on immigration.

It was a mind game and a lie to begin with. Democrats weren't about to be alone in granting citizenship to millions of illegal immigrants. They had to have Republicans on board. It could have been done in the first two years when Democrats held the White House, the House, and the Senate, but it wasn't and for the same reaon....they weren't about to go it alone....it would be political suicide.

And now Obama hopes to mitigate the damage already done to Democrats by postponing any action on amnesty till after the elections. Given the 2 to 1 Republican advantage on this issue in "the most competitive House and Senate races" it may be too little to late

The 12-20M undocumented immigrants who were here in 2006 are still here. They've been having US citizen babies since then that attend US schools and will one day be able to vote. They've been working and mostly not paying any taxes
because they get paid in cash. Hispanics are the fastest growing segment of the US population. In each POTUS election cycle they grow by 2%. The percentage that vote GOP declines in every election cycle,midterms included. What is the GOP plan? Round 'em up and deport them all? Grant them legal residency, make them pay taxes but not be able to vote? Taxation without representation? Is that the Tea Party plan?

 

[Boca]

. What is the GOP plan? Round 'em up and deport them all? Grant them legal residency, make them pay taxes but not be able to vote? Taxation without representation? Is that the Tea Party plan?

Tea Party? Ah yes..going by the book I see?

Let's not talk about the lie and duplicity of the same political party that once held slaves for their labor and now seek to enslave another ethnic group for their vote.

No, no, mustn't do that! Instead let's float another lie; that being the notion that amnesty and citizenship by the stroke of one man's pen - himself most likely in office illegally - is really nothing but immigration reform by fiat... and only for the virtuous purpose of generating more tax revenue.

On that score, let's not entertain the proposal of a consumption tax in lieu of an income tax that would not only make every business entity in country more efficient but automatically collect those taxes as well as the taxes of drug dealers, prostitutes, black market activities and so forth.

No, no, can't do that either. That would mean we'd lose the power of the IRS to harass and intimidate our political enemies.

We are Democrats after all...let's live down to it!

 

[Arkady]

For how many years have we been told if Republicans don't get on the immigration/amnesty bandwagon they are finished as a political party? Democrats in particular were pushing that meme - as if somehow the world had turned upside down and they had the best interests of the Republican Party at heart? That notion was laughably suspicious all along. And yes, even some Republicans joined the chorus. John McCain in particular.

So...how is it even posssible that Republicans have the edge on the issue in a recent poll? Because it was a lie; something that comes easily to Democrats.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/gop-has-edge-on-immigration-in-midterms-110925.html


Nearly two-thirds of likely voters in battleground races this fall disapprove of President Barack Obama’s handling of immigration, according to a new POLITICO poll ..... the poll found that 35 percent of voters in the most competitive House and Senate races this fall said they approved of how Obama has dealt with immigration, compared with 64 percent who said they disapproved of the president’s handling of the issue. And by a narrow margin, more voters said they trust the GOP over Democrats on immigration.

It was a mind game and a lie to begin with. Democrats weren't about to be alone in granting citizenship to millions of illegal immigrants. They had to have Republicans on board. It could have been done in the first two years when Democrats held the White House, the House, and the Senate, but it wasn't and for the same reaon....they weren't about to go it alone....it would be political suicide.

And now Obama hopes to mitigate the damage already done to Democrats by postponing any action on amnesty till after the elections. Given the 2 to 1 Republican advantage on this issue in "the most competitive House and Senate races" it may be too little to late

You're missing two key points in the political calculus. First, it doesn't just matter how many people believe each thing, but rather whose voting tendencies are likely to be swayed by it. If a person is against immigration reform but it makes fairly little difference in his life, it is unlikely to sway his vote. And if he is against immigration reform but is always going to vote Republican, anyway, because the president is black or the Democrats are soft in gays, or whatever, then that voter's stance on immigration reform is immaterial, politically. That vote wasn't up for grabs, anyway. The people who matter in the political calculus are those whose votes can be won or lost on the basis of this issue -- for example, religious Latinos drawn to the GOP by its social conservatism by repelled by its xenophobia. Second, the reason the GOP's opposition to immigration reform is seen as a dead end is demographic -- although it may not be a party killer today, their position is highly unpopular among the fastest growing demographic group, who are poised to make a bunch of previous red-state locks into toss ups within a generation.

 

[as seen on tv]

polls have repeatedly shown that amnesty has trouble cracking the "top 10 list" as an issue voters care about.

amnesty has always been about instantly creating 10 million new democratic party voters, and ensuring one party rule for the forseeable future.

 

[Colorforms]

polls have repeatedly shown that amnesty has trouble cracking the "top 10 list" as an issue voters care about.

amnesty has always been about instantly creating 10 million new democratic party voters, and ensuring one party rule for the forseeable future.

Although I think Obama hurt the democrat cause by inviting all of these sick children into the country and spreading them throughout the US. Now places which see an upsurge in flus and other illnesses are blaming it on these children, and consequently, on Barry and democrats.

 

[bdtex]

Tea Party? Ah yes..going by the book I see?

Let's not talk about the lie and duplicity of the same political party that once held slaves for their labor and now seek to enslave another ethnic group for their vote.

No, no, mustn't do that! Instead let's float another lie; that being the notion that amnesty and citizenship by the stroke of one man's pen - himself most likely in office illegally - is really nothing but immigration reform by fiat... and only for the virtuous purpose of generating more tax revenue.

On that score, let's not entertain the proposal of a consumption tax in lieu of an income tax that would not only make every business entity in country more efficient but automatically collect those taxes as well as the taxes of drug dealers, prostitutes, black market activities and so forth.

No, no, can't do that either. That would mean we'd lose the power of the IRS to harass and intimidate our political enemies.

We are Democrats after all...let's live down to it!

So the GOP plan for the 12-20M undocumented immigrants that are already here is a "consumption tax" for everyone?

 

[GreenBean]

For how many years have we been told if Republicans don't get on the immigration/amnesty bandwagon they are finished as a political party? Democrats in particular were pushing that meme - as if somehow the world had turned upside down and they had the best interests of the Republican Party at heart? That notion was laughably suspicious all along. And yes, even some Republicans joined the chorus. John McCain in particular.

So...how is it even posssible that Republicans have the edge on the issue in a recent poll? Because it was a lie; something that comes easily to Democrats.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/gop-has-edge-on-immigration-in-midterms-110925.html


Nearly two-thirds of likely voters in battleground races this fall disapprove of President Barack Obama’s handling of immigration, according to a new POLITICO poll ..... the poll found that 35 percent of voters in the most competitive House and Senate races this fall said they approved of how Obama has dealt with immigration, compared with 64 percent who said they disapproved of the president’s handling of the issue. And by a narrow margin, more voters said they trust the GOP over Democrats on immigration.

It was a mind game and a lie to begin with. Democrats weren't about to be alone in granting citizenship to millions of illegal immigrants. They had to have Republicans on board. It could have been done in the first two years when Democrats held the White House, the House, and the Senate, but it wasn't and for the same reaon....they weren't about to go it alone....it would be political suicide.

And now Obama hopes to mitigate the damage already done to Democrats by postponing any action on amnesty till after the elections. Given the 2 to 1 Republican advantage on this issue in "the most competitive House and Senate races" it may be too little to late

Well put - However - in most cases - so far as the electorate is concerned , it doesn't matter, Illegal or not they vote anyway

A group fighting against illegal immigration has filed a series of formal complaints with federal, state, and local agencies following a report by the Las Vegas Journal Review that uncovered a number of cases of illegal immigrants voting in this election. Complaint Filed over Illegal Alien Voters

 

[Colorforms]

Well put - However - in most cases - so far as the electorate is concerned , it doesn't matter, Illegal or not they vote anyway

A group fighting against illegal immigration has filed a series of formal complaints with federal, state, and local agencies following a report by the Las Vegas Journal Review that uncovered a number of cases of illegal immigrants voting in this election. Complaint Filed over Illegal Alien Voters

In Wisconsin this is a huge scam. Illegals are bussed from polling place to polling place, and because until now we had no voter ID laws, they could claim to be whoever hadn't shown up to vote by that time.

 

[GreenBean]

In Wisconsin this is a huge scam. Illegals are bussed from polling place to polling place, and because until now we had no voter ID laws, they could claim to be whoever hadn't shown up to vote by that time.

I'm sure that's going on in more places than just Wisconsin - DEMOCRACY HAS FAILED - Thanks to the party of the Jack Ass.

 

[connieb]

So the GOP plan for the 12-20M undocumented immigrants that are already here is a "consumption tax" for everyone?

You mean the 12 - 20 M identity thieves and tax evaders? Perhaps they should be deported, hmmm? I am not saying run right out and round people up, but as they come up and are caught- out you go. Of course if they would rather be prosecuted for each act of identity theft, fraud and tax evasion they have done over the years they have been here, I guess we could accommodate that as well.

 

[bdtex]

You mean the 12 - 20 M identity thieves and tax evaders? Perhaps they should be deported, hmmm? I am not saying run right out and round people up, but as they come up and are caught- out you go. Of course if they would rather be prosecuted for each act of identity theft, fraud and tax evasion they have done over the years they have been here, I guess we could accommodate that as well.

They're already being deported "as they come up and get caught".

 

[MrMike]

25% tax on amount at every wire service that serves undocumented folks when they are sending money back home (outside of USA). Lower the rate to 5% when they enter the system and can demonstrate they are paying US income taxes.

Harsh? yep... they are here illegally (a crime) and the free ride needs to stop and we should be recouping our costs of their illegal presence and impact to our services/infrastructure. Plus it will be a financial deterrent (lessen the attraction of coming here to skim work/$ from our nation).

 

[Arkady]

polls have repeatedly shown that amnesty has trouble cracking the "top 10 list" as an issue voters care about.

amnesty has always been about instantly creating 10 million new democratic party voters, and ensuring one party rule for the forseeable future.

When Reagan supported amnesty, was it about creating a bunch of new Republican party voters?

 

[Guthrie]

For how many years have we been told if Republicans don't get on the immigration/amnesty bandwagon they are finished as a political party? Democrats in particular were pushing that meme - as if somehow the world had turned upside down and they had the best interests of the Republican Party at heart? That notion was laughably suspicious all along. And yes, even some Republicans joined the chorus. John McCain in particular.

So...how is it even posssible that Republicans have the edge on the issue in a recent poll? Because it was a lie; something that comes easily to Democrats.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/gop-has-edge-on-immigration-in-midterms-110925.html


Nearly two-thirds of likely voters in battleground races this fall disapprove of President Barack Obama’s handling of immigration, according to a new POLITICO poll ..... the poll found that 35 percent of voters in the most competitive House and Senate races this fall said they approved of how Obama has dealt with immigration, compared with 64 percent who said they disapproved of the president’s handling of the issue. And by a narrow margin, more voters said they trust the GOP over Democrats on immigration.

It was a mind game and a lie to begin with. Democrats weren't about to be alone in granting citizenship to millions of illegal immigrants. They had to have Republicans on board. It could have been done in the first two years when Democrats held the White House, the House, and the Senate, but it wasn't and for the same reaon....they weren't about to go it alone....it would be political suicide.

And now Obama hopes to mitigate the damage already done to Democrats by postponing any action on amnesty till after the elections. Given the 2 to 1 Republican advantage on this issue in "the most competitive House and Senate races" it may be too little to late

Okay, you are right to point out that President Obamas handling of the immigration issue is widely unpopular. However, your interpretation is simply wrong.


The majority of American support a path to citizenship for example and helping the children who have escaped the US backed/caused violence.


Obama is getting sued and criticized heavily by immigration rights groups. He is also getting ripped apart by latinos who view him as selling out.


Thus the idea that a majority of Americans support republican immigration ideas is simply a pure fabrication and the poll you cited doesn’t even attempt to dispute that.


What is wrong here is both your interpretation of Obama’s policies and the poll.


I say with respect.

 

[connieb]

They're already being deported "as they come up and get caught".

Not within days and weeks. they are caught, released to come back for a hearing and disappear in the wind. Furhtermore, when they are caught for unrelated things liek a traffic stp the officer can't even hold them to determine their status. Why - becasue ICE won't do anything anyway unless they are otherwise wanted.; So, we re release these criminals to continue fraud, evade taxes and steal identities.

 

[Boca]

So the GOP plan for the 12-20M undocumented immigrants that are already here is a "consumption tax" for everyone?

If your only concern...the only one you mentioned...is tax revenues, then yes it is.

Got some other common sense reason? I'll listen!

And then - in the context of common sense - lemme ask you how many legal citizens are out of jobs owing to 12-20 million that aren't paying taxes?

 

[bdtex]

If your only concern...the only one you mentioned...is tax revenues, then yes it is.

Got some other common sense reason? I'll listen!

And thent - in the context of common sense - what is the unemployment rate for legal citizens?

That was your suggestion. What's the rest of the GOP plan?

 

[Spamature]

In Wisconsin this is a huge scam. Illegals are bussed from polling place to polling place, and because until now we had no voter ID laws, they could claim to be whoever hadn't shown up to vote by that time.

How in the hell would they know who had not shown up to vote ? Did poll workers let them guess the names until they go to a person who hadn't shown up and then let that person vote under the name ?

Yeah that really sounds like it could be a huge and viable scam in "Crazy Town" Wisconsin but what about the other cities ?