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No deficit hawks in the GOP.

Arkady

President
At one point I thought Bob Corker would make me eat my words about there being no deficit hawks in the GOP. He seemed like maybe he was the real deal, and so I’d have to say the GOP was down to just a single deficit hawk. But, sure enough, he’s voting for this dirty deal, which will raise deficits by a trillion dollars. So, there are no deficit hawks left. After all the screeching and play-acting of the Obama years, the GOP has confirmed what those of us on the left were saying about them — that it was just a bullshit excuse for obstructionism, without a shred of sincerity behind it.

So, are there any deficit hawks left here? A lot of you dutifully echoed right-wing talking points about the evils of deficits in the Obama years. Did any of you actually believe what you were saying? Or are you all OK with this tax scheme?
 
. But, sure enough, he’s voting for this dirty deal, which will raise deficits by a trillion dollars.

The Congressional Budget Office published an analysis of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act finding it would add roughly $1.4 trillion to federal deficits over a decade, in line with earlier estimates of the bill's cost produced as it moved through committee earlier this month.

As opposed to about $1.4 trillion a year for the 8 years of Obama​
 
Come on, you know the drill. The party in charge always forgets about being deficit and debt hawks. Remember how in 2008 accumulating $4 trillion in debt was unpatriotic, but several years later $8 trillion in debt was necessary and some other guy's fault? Republicrats have been running this scam on US for decades. But you already knew that.
 
At one point I thought Bob Corker would make me eat my words about there being no deficit hawks in the GOP. He seemed like maybe he was the real deal, and so I’d have to say the GOP was down to just a single deficit hawk. But, sure enough, he’s voting for this dirty deal, which will raise deficits by a trillion dollars
Some like Dean Baker are alleging Corker's real estate trusts are the main reason he switched his vote:

http://therealnews.com/t2/story:20745:Corker's-Tax-Vote:-Coincidence-or-Kickback?

"DEAN BAKER: Well, the measure provides for special treatment for income from real estate trust which Corker on his disclosure form indicates he has many millions of dollars, and he indicates he could get as much as $7 million a year in income from these trusts. And what that means for his taxes, instead of paying a 37% tax rate, that would be the new rate under the tax law, he'd pay just a 20% rate. So, he's saving 17 percentage points on possibly as much as $7 millions in income. So, you do the arithmetic, that's almost $1.2 million a year in savings."

Later in this 7:30 minute interview Baker predicts automatic cuts to Medicare and Medicaid mandated under the 2011 Budget Act will go into effect in 2018.
 
The Congressional Budget Office published an analysis of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act finding it would add roughly $1.4 trillion to federal deficits over a decade, in line with earlier estimates of the bill's cost produced as it moved through committee earlier this month.

As opposed to about $1.4 trillion a year for the 8 years of Obama​
You’re confused. Deficits fell under Obama. You may be thinking of debt.
 
Come on, you know the drill. The party in charge always forgets about being deficit and debt hawks. Remember how in 2008 accumulating $4 trillion in debt was unpatriotic, but several years later $8 trillion in debt was necessary and some other guy's fault? Republicrats have been running this scam on US for decades. But you already knew that.
It’s possible to have supported deficits in a principled way to get out of the deepest recession since The a Great Depression, and yet to oppose them now that we are near full employment. Yet the Republicans are going the other way, screeching for austerity at the worst possible time then pushing giant deficits when we least need them.
 
Some like Dean Baker are alleging Corker's real estate trusts are the main reason he switched his vote:

http://therealnews.com/t2/story:20745:Corker's-Tax-Vote:-Coincidence-or-Kickback?

"DEAN BAKER: Well, the measure provides for special treatment for income from real estate trust which Corker on his disclosure form indicates he has many millions of dollars, and he indicates he could get as much as $7 million a year in income from these trusts. And what that means for his taxes, instead of paying a 37% tax rate, that would be the new rate under the tax law, he'd pay just a 20% rate. So, he's saving 17 percentage points on possibly as much as $7 millions in income. So, you do the arithmetic, that's almost $1.2 million a year in savings."

Later in this 7:30 minute interview Baker predicts automatic cuts to Medicare and Medicaid mandated under the 2011 Budget Act will go into effect in 2018.
Theres no other plausible explanation for why he switched. The Republicans paid him off with that change. Now we know the price he put on his principles.
 
Come on, you know the drill. The party in charge always forgets about being deficit and debt hawks. Remember how in 2008 accumulating $4 trillion in debt was unpatriotic, but several years later $8 trillion in debt was necessary and some other guy's fault? Republicrats have been running this scam on US for decades. But you already knew that.
We should also never forget how "the magic of compound interest" grows debt faster than any productive economy can pay it off:

http://store.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Killing-The-Host_PDF_V7.pdf (P.42)

"A lily pod is placed in a pond.

"Each day thereafter the pod and then all its descendants double.

"On the thirtieth day the pond is covered completely by lily pods, which can grow no more.”

"'On which day was the pond half full and half empty?

"The twenty-ninth day,' that is, one day before the half the pond’s lilies double for the final time, stifling its surface.

"The end to exponential growth thus comes quickly."

The US economy (pond) is close to its day 29, and neither major political party mentions the role played by the exponential growth of debt.
 
It’s possible to have supported deficits in a principled way to get out of the deepest recession since The a Great Depression, and yet to oppose them now that we are near full employment. Yet the Republicans are going the other way, screeching for austerity at the worst possible time then pushing giant deficits when we least need them.

Yes of course. When Obama said accumulating $4 trillion in debt was unpatriotic, he had no idea how bad a mess Bush left behind (let's pretend Obama didn't vote for TARP to help further that notion). Or insert other partisan babble here _______________________.
 
We should also never forget how "the magic of compound interest" grows debt faster than any productive economy can pay it off:


http://store.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Killing-The-Host_PDF_V7.pdf (P.42)

"A lily pod is placed in a pond.

"Each day thereafter the pod and then all its descendants double.

"On the thirtieth day the pond is covered completely by lily pods, which can grow no more.”

"'On which day was the pond half full and half empty?

"The twenty-ninth day,' that is, one day before the half the pond’s lilies double for the final time, stifling its surface.

"The end to exponential growth thus comes quickly."

The US economy (pond) is close to its day 29, and neither major political party mentions the role played by the exponential growth of debt.

I love compound interest. When used wisely, it is a wonderful tool.
 
I love compound interest. When used wisely, it is a wonderful tool.
It's useful for individual savers, and it is suicidal for national economies:

http://store.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Killing-The-Host_PDF_V7.pdf (P. 36)

"J. P. Morgan and John D. Rockefeller are said to have called the principle of compound interest the Eighth Wonder of the World.

"For them it meant concentrating financial fortunes in the hands of an emerging oligarchy indebting the economy to itself at an exponential rate.

"This has been the key factor in polarizing the distribution of wealth and political power in societies that do not take steps to cope with this dynamic."

Five thousand years ago it was known exponential debt would destroy societies which didn't take steps to amortize the obligations.
rolling-jubilee-311.jpg

 
You’re confused. Deficits fell under Obama. You may be thinking of debt.

The Congressional Budget Office published an analysis of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act finding it would add roughly $1.4 trillion to federal deficits over a decade, in line with earlier estimates of the bill's cost produced as it moved through committee earlier this month.

As opposed to about $1.4 trillion a year for the 8 years of Obama​

The $1.4 trillion a year number under Obama is some lie you picked up in the right wing echo chamber. But the Obama era deficits were chump change compared to the deficits the GOP will ring up. Obama drastically cut the annual deficits GWB left behind, but they are climbing again. And now the GOP is adding at least $1.5 trillion more. You seem to think it’s only that $1.5 trillion. If interest rates soar we will face an economic crisis as bad as the epic GWB economic collapse.
 
We should also never forget how "the magic of compound interest" grows debt faster than any productive economy can pay it off:

http://store.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Killing-The-Host_PDF_V7.pdf (P.42)

"A lily pod is placed in a pond.

"Each day thereafter the pod and then all its descendants double.

"On the thirtieth day the pond is covered completely by lily pods, which can grow no more.”

"'On which day was the pond half full and half empty?

"The twenty-ninth day,' that is, one day before the half the pond’s lilies double for the final time, stifling its surface.

"The end to exponential growth thus comes quickly."

The US economy (pond) is close to its day 29, and neither major political party mentions the role played by the exponential growth of debt.
When it comes to government debt, it's a bit more complicated than that. At some points debt is extremely cheap, such that even very modest GDP growth will outpace it.

For example, there was a point as recently as last summer when the rate on a 10-year Treasury was just 1.40%. And there was a long stretch between mid-2011 and mid-2013 when it was typically less than 2.0%. With interest rates that low, the economy is going to be outgrowing debt nearly every month -- as long as you're not running substantial deficits, you'll tend to grow your way out of debt.

You can see how that works in historical terms. Back in 1946, thanks to all the borrowing we did to finance WWII, debt was 118.9% of GDP. Over the next 35 years, debt fell as a share of GDP nearly every year, despite us generally running deficits in those years. The deficits tended to be small enough that the rise in nominal debt was outpaced by the growth of the economy. By 1981, debt was only 31.7% of GDP. However, that was the year of the fiscally catastrophic Reagan tax cuts. That crippled revenue growth, reversing the 35-year trend of shrinking debt burden.

By the time Clinton took office, debt was back up to 64.0% of GDP, and rising. But Clinton pushed through a tax hike, revenues started growing in a healthy way again, and debt soon started heading back down -- 54.6% in 2001. Unfortunately, that was the year Bush repeated Reagan's disastrous fiscal experiment, with another round of reckless upper-class taxes. Thus, by the time of Bush's last budget, debt was back up to 82.4% of GDP, and it has continued upward since then (though the rise slowed a great deal following the 2013 tax hike).

So, we don't need to be irrationally afraid of debt. But we do need a plan for dealing with it. The mainstream economic view is that the way for a nation to manage debt is to run large deficits during and immediately following recessions, then balanced or surplus budget when times are good, to allow the economy to grow relative to the size of the debt, lessening the burden over time. That's basically the formula we followed to take debt down from 118.9% of GDP to 31.7% of GDP in 35 years, between WWII and the rise of Reagan. Unfortunately, Trump would rather ignore that success and instead try to emulate the spectacular failures of Reagan and Bush.
 
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Yes of course. When Obama said accumulating $4 trillion in debt was unpatriotic, he had no idea how bad a mess Bush left behind (let's pretend Obama didn't vote for TARP to help further that notion). Or insert other partisan babble here _______________________.
You didn't even address the point I made. Try again.
 
The $1.4 trillion a year number under Obama is some lie you picked up in the right wing echo chamber. But the Obama era deficits were chump change compared to the deficits the GOP will ring up. Obama drastically cut the annual deficits GWB left behind, but they are climbing again. And now the GOP is adding at least $1.5 trillion more. You seem to think it’s only that $1.5 trillion. If interest rates soar we will face an economic crisis as bad as the epic GWB economic collapse.
Just to put specific numbers behind what you're saying, in Bush's last fiscal year, the federal budget deficit was $1.413 TRILLION. In Obama's, it was $603 billion. So, that's a decline by well over half.

To put that in perspective, in Bush's time, we went from a $128 billion SURPLUS, to a $1.413 trillion deficit.
 
Just to put specific numbers behind what you're saying, in Bush's last fiscal year, the federal budget deficit was $1.413 TRILLION. In Obama's, it was $603 billion. So, that's a decline by well over half.

To put that in perspective, in Bush's time, we went from a $128 billion SURPLUS, to a $1.413 trillion deficit.

And it’s deja vu all over again. Trump and the GOP will explode the deficit Trump inherited. After which, brainwashed GOP zombies will blame the massive deficits on Dems.

On it goes.
 
Just to put specific numbers behind what you're saying, in Bush's last fiscal year, the federal budget deficit was $1.413 TRILLION. In Obama's, it was $603 billion. So, that's a decline by well over half.

To put that in perspective, in Bush's time, we went from a $128 billion SURPLUS, to a $1.413 trillion deficit.

And for further perspective, Barack Hussein Obama accumulated more debt than any president in history and almost as much as all other presidents combined. And he did so after complaining that GWB accumulating $4 trillion in debt was "unpatriotic".
 
And it’s deja vu all over again. Trump and the GOP will explode the deficit Trump inherited. After which, brainwashed GOP zombies will blame the massive deficits on Dems.

On it goes.

Wrong. Trump is president. He has a veto pen just like any other president. On the other hand, maybe I should be like you and come up with excuses why it's some other guy's fault. That might be fun.
 
And for further perspective, Barack Hussein Obama accumulated more debt than any president in history and almost as much as all other presidents combined. And he did so after complaining that GWB accumulating $4 trillion in debt was "unpatriotic".

Of course. GWB bequeathed Obama an annual structural deficit of a $trillion+. Didn’t you know that?
 
Wrong. Trump is president. He has a veto pen just like any other president. On the other hand, maybe I should be like you and come up with excuses why it's some other guy's fault. That might be fun.

Yeah, you just might blame Trump and your GOP cult for their record shattering deficits.

I’ll patiently wait for that.

;-)
 
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