New Posts
  • Hi there guest! Welcome to PoliticalJack.com. Register for free to join our community?

Politicized Religious Taboos

Arkady

President
As an outsider looking in, I find it strange which religious taboos conservative Christians decide to turn into organizing principles of their politics. Abortion is an obvious example, as is homosexuality. To a lesser extent, so are birth control and pornography. What's odd is that many of these things have no real basis in scripture. The Bible never speaks about abortion (unless you start with the conclusion that it amounts to forbidden killing). It also only speaks against one specific form of birth control, and I'm not aware of any mention of pornography. It does, of course, speak against homosexuality, but does so most clearly in a book full of countless other taboos which are now generally disregarded.

Think of all the clear scriptural rules that are now generally disregarded by believers. There are all the dietary rules, for example (which believers conveniently argue were repealed by Peter, though the passage they rely on is not at all clear about that). There's the commandment about getting circumcized. There are rules against women wearing pants, people having braids in their hair, wearing clothes of two different fabrics, planting fields of two different crops, making images of anything in heaven, calling people names, and getting tattoos. There are all sorts of required feast days that are no longer observed, and rules about making animal sacrifices, not charging interest, and doing no work on the Sabbath:

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/11/amazon_just_ruined_sunday_morning/

Some of these rules have been largely ignored since very early in the history of Christianity (when the dietary and circumcision laws were blurred for the sake of making it easier to convert gentiles who were attracted to the faith but not enough to give up bacon or have the tip of their penises cut off). But others were observed strictly (sometimes in a modified form), until historically quite recently, like the idea you shouldn't be working on the Sabbath. Yet, today, nearly all that clear scriptural authority is either dispensed with without even need for a theological fig leaf, or, at the very minimum, it forms no basis for political organization (you won't, for example, hear those who are up in arms about the business of pornography also organizing to fight Sunday deliveries by Amazon.com, even though the latter is much more clearly a problem under scripture). And you'll never see the politicized evangelical Christians mobilizing against policies designed to make it easier to acquire and maintain wealth, even though Jesus made very clear that having wealth made it essentially impossible for a person to get into Heaven.

If you look at the list of theological principles that do form the basis for political organization among the religious, they all have a sexual component: rules against abortion, homosexuality, birth control, and pornography. Yet, not all religious issues touching on sexuality are organizing principles for politics among believers. Take divorce, for example. The New Testament takes a clear stance against divorce, and for nearly a millenium and a half from the time of Jesus, this was strictly observed as a rule against the dissolution of marriages. Only when a king found this inconvenient for his designs to marry his mistress did a new church arise to permit such divorces. And, even after that, the Catholics, in terms of dogma, stuck to the strict rule, and most other Christian faiths heavily frowned on divorced, such that it was almost unknown, until very recently. Yet, these days, evangelical Protestant divorce is incredibly widespread and little remarked upon, and even among Catholics it's not an organizing political principle (the Catholics who organize to block access to birth control, discriminate against gays, censor pornography, and ban abortion generally regard divorce as a question of personal choice, where they won't try legally to force their dogma on those whose faiths lack the persistent Catholic taboo against divorce).

So, the only key I can see for what causes some taboos to become politicized and some not is the reproductive goal. Each of the politicized theological taboos is something where enforcement of the taboo can be expected to boost birth rates. The rule against abortion, does this directly, as does the rule against birth control. Indirectly, the rules against homosexuality and pornography, since those otherwise offer non-procreative outlets for the sex drive. This would also explain why evangelical Christians often get worked up about masturbation. Divorce, by comparison, isn't a block to rampant reproduction -- in fact, encouraging divorce encourages the creation of more kids, since it breaks up couples where one partner may be sterile, and often new spouses want children together, even if one or the other thought they were done having children with their prior spouse.

Thus, perhaps it's simple social Darwinism. The taboos that had no particular survival benefit have been worked out of the system (nobody protests outside Red Lobster, any more, to voice opposition to the abomination of a shellfish dinner), whereas taboos that served to benefit the expansion of the churches that promoted them have remained features of political life.
 
Last edited:
It's interesting how the same Social Conservatives who use the Bible against homosexuality and abortion.....oddly "overlook" it's stance on divorce, when it comes to their heroes like Newt Gingrich or Rush Limbaugh?!?!?

Even more interesting that thsoe two gentlemen have actually convinced much of their fans that they have credibility in a discussion of "defending tradditional marriage".

Naturally, like other times where ignoring the Bible is politically beneficient to them, the Religious Right has numerous excuses.
 
It's interesting how the same Social Conservatives who use the Bible against homosexuality and abortion.....oddly "overlook" it's stance on divorce, when it comes to their heroes like Newt Gingrich or Rush Limbaugh?!?!?

Even more interesting that thsoe two gentlemen have actually convinced much of their fans that they have credibility in a discussion of "defending tradditional marriage".

Naturally, like other times where ignoring the Bible is politically beneficient to them, the Religious Right has numerous excuses.

The Catholics, in particular, have an odd relationship with abortion, homosexuality, and divorce. From a Catholic perspective, all those things are infallibly forbidden. Yet, when it comes to divorce, they've taken a flexible stance. Essentially, they say "divorce is forbidden by the rules of our own faith, and although we may quietly frown on people of other faiths who ignore those rules, we will make no significant effort to enforce our dogma against non-Catholics by way of the law, nor will we even allow it to influence us politically (see, for example, divorcee Reagan's popularity among conservative Catholics)."

It's the same stance they once took on the issue of eating meat on Fridays (before the rule against that was removed) -- it wasn't OK for them, but they weren't going to fight against the right 0f non-Catholics to do so. In fact, ther old stance on meat was quite laid back -- even though they objected to eating meat on Fridays, they never mounted a campaign to prevent their tax dollars from going to buy meat for others to eat on Fridays (e.g., military personnel and others who sometimes eat at taxpayer expense). Yet, when it comes to abortion, homosexuality, pornography, and birth control, many Catholics take the view that non-Catholics must be forced, by operation of law, to observe the Catholic taboos.

I guess the Catholics aren't the only one with this double standard. For example, Jehova's Witnesses personally refuse any blood products, such as life-saving transfusions, but they don't try to outlaw them for non-Jehova's Witnesses (or even, as far as I'm aware, to insist that JW-affiliated organizations be allowed to provide health insurance that doesn't cover any blood products). Jews don't eat pork and Hindus don't eat beef, but I've never heard either trying to get those things made illegal. And, at least in this country, Muslims aren't actively campaigning to outlaw alcohol, or to block restaurant service during religious fasting periods. All of these religious organizations take the view that certain rules are for their own members, but need not be enforced by law against those of other faiths. Yet, when it comes to those certain procreative taboos, there's this tendency to view them as things that apply to everyone regardless of his own faith -- such that they either try to enforce them directly by law (e.g., banning abortion), or indirectly by special exception (e.g., a special exception letting religiously-affiliated organizations purchase health insurance that doesn't cover abortion or birth control).
 
What I find arresting is that the Christian Churches have long had "problems" with priests sexually abusing kids. It is a common problem. So common everyone thinks the word "priest" and automatically this comes to mind: "sexually diddling your people especially BOYS"! In other words, they go together!

These BIBLE preachers seem to have real problems with hypocrisy.

I recall this big conservative wealthy church in Hingham, Massachusetts that was considered so HIGH and MIGHTY... Then it came out that the head priest had sexually abused dozens of BOYS!

Right wingers continued to defend that Priest well after it was established he was a molester and vile monster. The Vatican protected him too for far too long.

I feel Churches are Taboo at this point especially the most conservative ones.
 
The Religious Right have consistantly been willing to "sell out" their supposed "moral outrage" for political purposes.

As you note, they ignored the fact Reagan was divorced....something they would have leaped on if it had been Carter or any Democrat who was divorced and re-married.

Ditto Dick Cheney....same guys who told us "Homosexuality comes from bad parenting"....happily overlooked Mary Cheney being a lesbian to support Bush/Cheney in 2000.

Same for Limbaugh and Gingrich....more so for Gingrich, who not only has been married three times....TWO of those times it was to former mistresses he was having affairs with while in the preceding marriage.

Naturally, they resume their "moral outrage" when its the issues of abortion or gay rights....and yet none of them propose restricting divorce, which is just a grave a sin in their dogma....because they know it would strike home with lots of popular Republicans.
 
The Religious Right have consistantly been willing to "sell out" their supposed "moral outrage" for political purposes.

As you note, they ignored the fact Reagan was divorced....something they would have leaped on if it had been Carter or any Democrat who was divorced and re-married.

Ditto Dick Cheney....same guys who told us "Homosexuality comes from bad parenting"....happily overlooked Mary Cheney being a lesbian to support Bush/Cheney in 2000.

Same for Limbaugh and Gingrich....more so for Gingrich, who not only has been married three times....TWO of those times it was to former mistresses he was having affairs with while in the preceding marriage.

Naturally, they resume their "moral outrage" when its the issues of abortion or gay rights....and yet none of them propose restricting divorce, which is just a grave a sin in their dogma....because they know it would strike home with lots of popular Republicans.

Yes an important foundational element for Right Wingers is their DOUBLE STANDARDS! They just ignore in themselves all the things they SO attack others for.
 
Yes an important foundational element for Right Wingers is their DOUBLE STANDARDS! They just ignore in themselves all the things they SO attack others for.


Sure, had this conversation on the "Religion" Forum.....RichWA carefully explained why "Bible-believing Christians" are doing nothing wrong when they not only ignore but actively go against Biblical teachings.
 
...The Bible never speaks about abortion (unless you start with the conclusion that it amounts to forbidden killing). It also only speaks against one specific form of birth control, and I'm not aware of any mention of pornography...
Yes, perfectly logical for you to be bothered by the fact that the Bible doesn't forbid things that did not even exist at the time.:rolleyes:
 
So God, who supposedly "inspired the Bible"....didn't know what Mankind would eventually create???

Wait a minute, Righties are constantly saying God knows everything and everything is written in the Bible, it is right there for all time! You don't need to read another book because EVERYTHING you could ever need to know is RIGHT THERE IN THE BIBLE!!! They say that today, 2013. So yes for NOW. The Bible covers everything!
 
Yes, perfectly logical for you to be bothered by the fact that the Bible doesn't forbid things that did not even exist at the time.:rolleyes:


What is it that you presume not to have existed at the time of the writing of the Bible?

Some say that homosexuality still doesn't exist in Iran.
 
Wait a minute, Righties are constantly saying God knows everything and everything is written in the Bible, it is right there for all time! You don't need to read another book because EVERYTHING you could ever need to know is RIGHT THERE IN THE BIBLE!!! They say that today, 2013. So yes for NOW. The Bible covers everything!


Ecclesiastes 1:19 says "there is nothing new under the sun"....

apparently that was wrong.
 
Yes, perfectly logical for you to be bothered by the fact that the Bible doesn't forbid things that did not even exist at the time.:rolleyes:

Abortion, birth control, and pornography all existed at the time of the writing of the New Testament. Here's a Fresco from Pompeii, dating to Jesus' lifetime.
Pompeya_er%C3%B3tica5.jpg
Contraception dates back to ancient Greece and in Biblical times. And abortion has been around so long that sophisticated ethical analysis of the line between morally acceptable early-term abortions and morally questionable late-term abortions were done by Aristotle, who was writing over three centuries before the birth of Jesus, and would have been very well known by the Greek-speaking writers of he Gospels.

So, the Bible doesn't forbid these things, despite them being well known at the time.
 
So, the Bible doesn't forbid these things, despite them being well known at the time.

Which undercuts even the "It was written by Men, not God, but is still relevant" argument.

Apparently the Apostles (much less the Hebrew Chroniclers) didn't care about the issues of abortion, contraception, or pornography....since they should have been well aware of them at that time.
 
Abortion, birth control, and pornography all existed at the time of the writing of the New Testament. Here's a Fresco from Pompeii, dating to Jesus' lifetime.
Pompeya_er%C3%B3tica5.jpg
Contraception dates back to ancient Greece and in Biblical times. And abortion has been around so long that sophisticated ethical analysis of the line between morally acceptable early-term abortions and morally questionable late-term abortions were done by Aristotle, who was writing over three centuries before the birth of Jesus, and would have been very well known by the Greek-speaking writers of he Gospels.

So, the Bible doesn't forbid these things, despite them being well known at the time.


Uhm...this fresco has NOTHING to do with pornography. abortion or birth control. It is a fertility symbol. A blessing on the house as it were.

This one....(on the wall of a bordello) is the closest thing to porn one can find. Of course...we haven't the actual context...but I'd say it's close enough.

061026_pompeii_hmed_4p.grid-6x2.jpg
 
As an outsider looking in, I find it strange which religious taboos conservative Christians decide to turn into organizing principles of their politics. Abortion is an obvious example, as is homosexuality. To a lesser extent, so are birth control and pornography. What's odd is that many of these things have no real basis in scripture. The Bible never speaks about abortion (unless you start with the conclusion that it amounts to forbidden killing). It also only speaks against one specific form of birth control, and I'm not aware of any mention of pornography. It does, of course, speak against homosexuality, but does so most clearly in a book full of countless other taboos which are now generally disregarded.

Think of all the clear scriptural rules that are now generally disregarded by believers. There are all the dietary rules, for example (which believers conveniently argue were repealed by Peter, though the passage they rely on is not at all clear about that). There's the commandment about getting circumcized. There are rules against women wearing pants, people having braids in their hair, wearing clothes of two different fabrics, planting fields of two different crops, making images of anything in heaven, calling people names, and getting tattoos. There are all sorts of required feast days that are no longer observed, and rules about making animal sacrifices, not charging interest, and doing no work on the Sabbath:

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/11/amazon_just_ruined_sunday_morning/

Some of these rules have been largely ignored since very early in the history of Christianity (when the dietary and circumcision laws were blurred for the sake of making it easier to convert gentiles who were attracted to the faith but not enough to give up bacon or have the tip of their penises cut off). But others were observed strictly (sometimes in a modified form), until historically quite recently, like the idea you shouldn't be working on the Sabbath. Yet, today, nearly all that clear scriptural authority is either dispensed with without even need for a theological fig leaf, or, at the very minimum, it forms no basis for political organization (you won't, for example, hear those who are up in arms about the business of pornography also organizing to fight Sunday deliveries by Amazon.com, even though the latter is much more clearly a problem under scripture). And you'll never see the politicized evangelical Christians mobilizing against policies designed to make it easier to acquire and maintain wealth, even though Jesus made very clear that having wealth made it essentially impossible for a person to get into Heaven.

If you look at the list of theological principles that do form the basis for political organization among the religious, they all have a sexual component: rules against abortion, homosexuality, birth control, and pornography. Yet, not all religious issues touching on sexuality are organizing principles for politics among believers. Take divorce, for example. The New Testament takes a clear stance against divorce, and for nearly a millenium and a half from the time of Jesus, this was strictly observed as a rule against the dissolution of marriages. Only when a king found this inconvenient for his designs to marry his mistress did a new church arise to permit such divorces. And, even after that, the Catholics, in terms of dogma, stuck to the strict rule, and most other Christian faiths heavily frowned on divorced, such that it was almost unknown, until very recently. Yet, these days, evangelical Protestant divorce is incredibly widespread and little remarked upon, and even among Catholics it's not an organizing political principle (the Catholics who organize to block access to birth control, discriminate against gays, censor pornography, and ban abortion generally regard divorce as a question of personal choice, where they won't try legally to force their dogma on those whose faiths lack the persistent Catholic taboo against divorce).

So, the only key I can see for what causes some taboos to become politicized and some not is the reproductive goal. Each of the politicized theological taboos is something where enforcement of the taboo can be expected to boost birth rates. The rule against abortion, does this directly, as does the rule against birth control. Indirectly, the rules against homosexuality and pornography, since those otherwise offer non-procreative outlets for the sex drive. This would also explain why evangelical Christians often get worked up about masturbation. Divorce, by comparison, isn't a block to rampant reproduction -- in fact, encouraging divorce encourages the creation of more kids, since it breaks up couples where one partner may be sterile, and often new spouses want children together, even if one or the other thought they were done having children with their prior spouse.

Thus, perhaps it's simple social Darwinism. The taboos that had no particular survival benefit have been worked out of the system (nobody protests outside Red Lobster, any more, to voice opposition to the abomination of a shellfish dinner), whereas taboos that served to benefit the expansion of the churches that promoted them have remained features of political life.

As good as any other theory, I suppose. How are they (any religion) gonna keep those tithes coming in?
 
Back
Top