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Shouldn’t Trump get the blame for the Ukraine mess?

Bugsy McGurk

Bugsy McGurk

President
First of all, Trump clearly hobbled Ukraine’s attempts to erect defenses to an invasion from Russia, even withholding US military aid and seeking to extort the Ukraine president into announcing a bogus investigation of the Bidens. Trump could not have made his allegiance to Putin, and his hostility to Ukraine, any clearer.

Then Trump left office, after doing his damage in Ukraine. And what do we have now? Putin planning to invade Ukraine. And he knows how Americans will react to that - he knows that American patriots will blame Putin, while Trump and his cultists will blame Biden. There’s nothing Putin wants more than to further divide Americans and strengthen Trump.

Bottom line - Putin accomplishes two goals by invading Ukraine - his territorial goal, and his geopolitical goal of strengthening Trump and weakening America.

Meanwhile, Trump sits back at Mar-a-Lago, snickering and enjoying his handiwork.
 
Bugsy McGurk said:
First of all, Trump clearly hobbled Ukraine’s attempts to erect defenses to an invasion from Russia, even withholding US military aid and seeking to extort the Ukraine president into announcing a bogus investigation of the Bidens. Trump could not have made his allegiance to Putin, and his hostility to Ukraine, any clearer.

Then Trump left office, after doing his damage in Ukraine. And what do we have now? Putin planning to invade Ukraine. And he knows how Americans will react to that - he knows that American patriots will blame Putin, while Trump and his cultists will blame Biden. There’s nothing Putin wants more than to further divide Americans and strengthen Trump.

Bottom line - Putin accomplishes two goals by invading Ukraine - his territorial goal, and his geopolitical goal of strengthening Trump and weakening America.

Meanwhile, Trump sits back at Mar-a-Lago, snickering and enjoying his handiwork.
Click to expand...

To be fair...Obama would not provide lethal aid to Ukraine. His reasoning was that it might escalate the violence. Trump allowed the sale of anti-tank missiles but required they be kept in western Ukraine, far from the front lines.

I think it is possible that Putin sees us as fatally divided and weakened by our internal politics. If he thinks Biden would get little or no support from republicans, he may just think he can count on that divide to keep the US from responding. He may have also thought Trump sufficiently slammed and divided Nato that they won't unite to respond as well.

If those assumptions are true then yes, Trump did make it happen.
 
JuliefromOhio said:
No question, Trump advanced Putin/Russia over the USA.

View attachment 68886
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Putin no doubt misses the “good old days” when he installed a US president who kissed his ass and beat up on Ukraine. And Putin no doubt knows that, if he invades Ukraine, Trump and his cultists will bash Biden, not Putin, using it to Trump’s political advantage. And Putin desperately wants Trump to be president again.

It’s pretty obvious - Trump deserves the blame for all of this. Yet, the lapdog, lazy media never even point these things out.
 
Bugsy McGurk said:
Putin no doubt misses the “good old days” when he installed a US president who kissed his ass and beat up on Ukraine. And Putin no doubt knows that, if he invades Ukraine, Trump and his cultists will bash Biden, not Putin, using it to Trump’s political advantage. And Putin desperately wants Trump to be president again.

It’s pretty obvious - Trump deserves the blame for all of this. Yet, the lapdog, lazy media never even point these things out.
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I think our divided population may have encouraged him to think we would not unite to support our president against his invasion of Ukraine. I don't think Trump's damage to Nato helped either.
 
Bugsy McGurk said:
First of all, Trump clearly hobbled Ukraine’s attempts to erect defenses to an invasion from Russia, even withholding US military aid and seeking to extort the Ukraine president into announcing a bogus investigation of the Bidens. Trump could not have made his allegiance to Putin, and his hostility to Ukraine, any clearer.

Then Trump left office, after doing his damage in Ukraine. And what do we have now? Putin planning to invade Ukraine. And he knows how Americans will react to that - he knows that American patriots will blame Putin, while Trump and his cultists will blame Biden. There’s nothing Putin wants more than to further divide Americans and strengthen Trump.

Bottom line - Putin accomplishes two goals by invading Ukraine - his territorial goal, and his geopolitical goal of strengthening Trump and weakening America.

Meanwhile, Trump sits back at Mar-a-Lago, snickering and enjoying his handiwork.
Click to expand...
Cuz Biden* isn't running this country eh?
 
Bugsy McGurk said:
First of all, Trump clearly hobbled Ukraine’s attempts to erect defenses to an invasion from Russia, even withholding US military aid and seeking to extort the Ukraine president into announcing a bogus investigation of the Bidens. Trump could not have made his allegiance to Putin, and his hostility to Ukraine, any clearer.

Then Trump left office, after doing his damage in Ukraine. And what do we have now? Putin planning to invade Ukraine. And he knows how Americans will react to that - he knows that American patriots will blame Putin, while Trump and his cultists will blame Biden. There’s nothing Putin wants more than to further divide Americans and strengthen Trump.

Bottom line - Putin accomplishes two goals by invading Ukraine - his territorial goal, and his geopolitical goal of strengthening Trump and weakening America.

Meanwhile, Trump sits back at Mar-a-Lago, snickering and enjoying his handiwork.
Click to expand...
I think people actually paying attention will recall that Putin first attacked Ukraine in 2014, during the Obama administration, and then waited until the Biden administration for his second attempt.

But i have to tip my hat to your ingenuity. With democrats' claims of "trump collusion with russia" proven to be a political dirty trick, you have to grasp for anything you think the gullible might again buy into, no matter how incredibly hilarious.
 
as seen on tv said:
I think people actually paying attention will recall that Putin first attacked Ukraine in 2014, during the Obama administration, and then waited until the Biden administration for his second attempt.

But i have to tip my hat to your ingenuity. With democrats' claims of "trump collusion with russia" proven to be a political dirty trick, you have to grasp for anything you think the gullible might again buy into, no matter how incredibly hilarious.
Click to expand...

Of course, Trump also did nothing about Russia’s seizure of Crimea, other than relentlessly kissing Putin’s ass, reversing the ostracizing of Russia that was instituted during the Obama era. Putin then spent the Trump era disabling the Ukraine government and defenses, aided by Trump, who withheld military aid to Ukraine and weakened Ukraine while demanding that Ukraine hold bogus investigations into the Bidens.

And here we are - Putin seeks a “twofer” with his Ukraine invasion: seizure of Ukraine territory and the strengthening of Trump, his US puppet.

Trump voters should be apologizing to patriotic Americans.
 
middleview said:
To be fair...Obama would not provide lethal aid to Ukraine. His reasoning was that it might escalate the violence. Trump allowed the sale of anti-tank missiles but required they be kept in western Ukraine, far from the front lines.

I think it is possible that Putin sees us as fatally divided and weakened by our internal politics. If he thinks Biden would get little or no support from republicans, he may just think he can count on that divide to keep the US from responding. He may have also thought Trump sufficiently slammed and divided Nato that they won't unite to respond as well.

If those assumptions are true then yes, Trump did make it happen.
Click to expand...
We're not privy to all the facts that the White House is privy to. Ukraine is not homogeneous politically. By that I don't just mean political parties I mean preferred national identities. Sending lethal aid there is a shot in the dark as to whether or not such aid would eventually be controlled by your friends or your enemies.
 
justoffal said:
We're not privy to all the facts that the White House is privy to. Ukraine is not homogeneous politically. By that I don't just mean political parties I mean preferred national identities. Sending lethal aid there is a shot in the dark as to whether or not such aid would eventually be controlled by your friends or your enemies.
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The best we can hope for is extreme sanctions to which western nations all adhere. Russia holds Europe hostage with its gas and oil. That dependence must be broken.
 
Bugsy McGurk said:
The best we can hope for is extreme sanctions to which western nations all adhere. Russia holds Europe hostage with its gas and oil. That dependence must be broken.
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I realize you're probably already aware of this but Europe actually can't stand the United States. I'm actually not sure why that is since we've saved their ass more than once. But don't count on any cooperation from them that costs them any inconvenience. Lip service at best.
 
justoffal said:
NATO has done plenty to damage themselves.
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Which means what? Europe was the starting point for major wars every 25 years or so.
WWII 1939 to 1945
WWI 1914 to 1918
Franco Prussian War 1870
Crimean war 1853

And minor wars, sometimes with several going on at once...

List of conflicts in Europe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

There has been a long period of relative peace, aside from the wars in Yugoslavia and between Russia and it's former republics.

Would you agree that Nato may have had something to do with that?
 
justoffal said:
I realize you're probably already aware of this but Europe actually can't stand the United States. I'm actually not sure why that is since we've saved their ass more than once. But don't count on any cooperation from them that costs them any inconvenience. Lip service at best.
Click to expand...

It’s not a matter of their feelings toward the US. It’s a matter of their own self-interest. They may or may not care enough to undergo sacrifice due to serious sanctions. We shall see.
 
middleview said:
Which means what? Europe was the starting point for major wars every 25 years or so.
WWII 1939 to 1945
WWI 1914 to 1918
Franco Prussian War 1870
Crimean war 1853

And minor wars, sometimes with several going on at once...

List of conflicts in Europe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

There has been a long period of relative peace, aside from the wars in Yugoslavia and between Russia and it's former republics.

Would you agree that Nato may have had something to do with that?
Click to expand...

Trump is hostile to NATO, due to his need to kiss Putin’s ass, which is yet another reason for Putin to do everything he can to get Trump back into office. And he knows that Trump and his cultists will try to blame Putin’s invasion on Biden.
 
justoffal said:
I realize you're probably already aware of this but Europe actually can't stand the United States. I'm actually not sure why that is since we've saved their ass more than once. But don't count on any cooperation from them that costs them any inconvenience. Lip service at best.
Click to expand...

Have been to Europe a couple of times...I found the people in England, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Italy to be friendly and welcoming. Just after 911 we were at a bar in Normandy and the people there stood and toasted us...the owner would not take our money for a bottle of wine and appetizers....Vive les Etats Unis!

A woman in Paris helped me get to the Arc d'Triumph by walking me to the correct train, riding it with me all the way to my exit and then going back the way she came...

We ran into one waiter in Paris who was rude to us...one.
 
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