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Simplifying the tax code.

Arkady

President
Republicans like to talk about simplifying the tax code — holding out a vision of most people filing their taxes on a postcard. They do not, of course, actually care about that. They work for the rich donors, and the donor class has their taxes done by professionals. They see tax complexity is a good thing, because it’s in that thicket of special rules and exceptions that they manage to lower their rates far below what a back-of-a postcard calculation would have told you they’d pay. But, the promise of simpler tax filings matters to the rubes, and the Republicans need the rubes to vote for them, so they pretend they’re working towards that goal.

The truth is that they nearly always push for rules that will inevitably add complexity. Much of the complexity in the code is driven by the way different forms of income get different treatment. Rules that treat forms of income differently — or similar types of economic transactions differently — give people an incentive to recharacterize their income or transactions in a way that lets them use the lower tax rate. Then that drives the creation of new rules to prevent abuse of the old rules. That’s how the rules grow so dramatically.

Here’s a simple example from one of my own clients. I had a client who wanted maintenance done on some very expensive assets. All that was needed was to pay a service provider to come in and do the work. But my client instead wanted a Byzantine contract where instead, he sold the assets to the service provider, who then did the work, and sold them back. This was a lot more complex, legally, because of the transfers in ownership, which required options, etc., to make sure the client could require them to be sold. Why go through that? Well, if it’s a sale and purchase, it gets better tax treatment (capex) than if it’s just maintenance (opex). It’s the exact same real-world transaction either way, but the client was willing to pay a lot of money to have it look different on paper. And that involved plenty of legal research, because the IRS polices that trick. They want to make sure it’s a genuine sale, not a disguised maintenance contract, and so there are a bunch of additional rules about what constitutes a genuine sale. Then businesses find ways to comply with those rules while still disguising maintenance as a sale, and so additional rules are made to prevent that. And so on.

The current tax bill increases the number of ways that similar economic transactions get different treatment, and thus it will accelerate that process. Paul Krugman pointed out one example. Because the Republicans despise people who work for a living, they want business owners to pay lower taxes than employees. But, that creates an incentive for people to create businesses that are basically just selling their professional services. So, the code builds in a lot of complexity to try to prevent that — so that, for example, an economist working for a company can’t instead form a one-man economic consulting firm pass-through that sells his services to the company, and thereby lower his taxes. So, the rules prevent certain professions from doing that, including economists. But, in theory, the economist could sell novelty t-shirts, and thereby characterize himself as a t-shirt company that does some economic consulting on the side.... and the t-shirt company would be eligible for the superior tax treatment. So, more rules are needed to prevent that — for example, a rule requiring that more than 50% of the revenues come from the qualifying activity. But clever people can game those rules — for example, create a bunch of nested subsidiaries, where at each level 51% of revenues come from a qualifying entity, but at the bottom of the structure is a very small t-shirt operation that gets great tax treatment for a very large economic consulting firm. So, more rules are needed to prevent that. And so on.

There are ways to fight complexity, but they involve removing such special treatment. Stop treating business owners as superior to mere workers, for tax treatment. Stop treating unearned income (interest, dividends, capital gains, gifts, and inheritance) as better than earned income. The more you can reduce the incentive to recharacterize economic transactions for tax reasons, the fewer rules you need to prevent such behavior. If, for example, a CEO doesn’t have a tax reason to care whether his compensation shows up as salary or as a capital gain on a stock option or discounted company stock, then you don’t need a lot of rules to prevent salary from being recharacterize as one of those other things.,
 
Dude. No offense, but look at your posts. You are the LAST person one should look to about reducing the complexity of ANYTHING. ;)
 
Dude. No offense, but look at your posts. You are the LAST person one should look to about reducing the complexity of ANYTHING. ;)
There, in a nutshell, is the story of Republican success. They’re very good at handing dumb people easily understood talking points. “File your taxes on a postcard.” Mentally lazy people will always prefer a short lie to a long truth.
 
There are ways to fight complexity, but they involve removing such special treatment. Stop treating business owners as superior to mere workers, for tax treatment. Stop treating unearned income (interest, dividends, capital gains, gifts, and inheritance) as better than earned income. The more you can reduce the incentive to recharacterize economic transactions for tax reasons, the fewer rules you need to prevent such behavior. I
Do you have any ideas about what happens when a significant percentage of the US workforce is replaced by AI and robots?

Today, some on the left think of economic rent as income without work; what happens when work and subsistence become detached for millions of formerly productive Americans?

Where does the state go for the money to "buy civilization" when many of its citizens no longer have the need for a job?


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/books/review/a-fine-mess-tr-reid.html

"Of course, we don’t even like taxes, ranking the subject near death among those things we find most disagreeable.

"That’s because we think of what we could do with the money we are forced to part with more often than we contemplate how taxes finance benefits like education, infrastructure, justice and the military, which form the foundations of both liberty and private wealth creation.

"We don’t think much about the fact that in a society with no taxes the ruthless rule, free to take our property and our lives, while as Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes observed, taxes buy us civilization."
 
Do you have any ideas about what happens when a significant percentage of the US workforce is replaced by AI and robots?

Today, some on the left think of economic rent as income without work; what happens when work and subsistence become detached for millions of formerly productive Americans?

Where does the state go for the money to "buy civilization" when many of its citizens no longer have the need for a job?


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/books/review/a-fine-mess-tr-reid.html

"Of course, we don’t even like taxes, ranking the subject near death among those things we find most disagreeable.

"That’s because we think of what we could do with the money we are forced to part with more often than we contemplate how taxes finance benefits like education, infrastructure, justice and the military, which form the foundations of both liberty and private wealth creation.

"We don’t think much about the fact that in a society with no taxes the ruthless rule, free to take our property and our lives, while as Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes observed, taxes buy us civilization."
only to a point, then they buy US a huge over bearing power hungry entity (govt) who's sole purpose becomes to keep and maintain power as its only goal. As an example I offer the US govt. We have more and more $$$ stolen from US each year to "pay" for services with an ever decreasing return on it. Lets just pick one small part of it shall we......Education, The US ranks at the bottom of industrialized nations in every category but self confidence while at the same time we spend more per student than those very same other countries. What is our govt solutions to bringing up stupid kids, yep you guessed it, separate more of our money from US. The govt does not have and has not had and will never have a revenue problem. The problem lies in spending
 
Republicans like to talk about simplifying the tax code — holding out a vision of most people filing their taxes on a postcard. They do not, of course, actually care about that. They work for the rich donors, and the donor class has their taxes done by professionals. They see tax complexity is a good thing, because it’s in that thicket of special rules and exceptions that they manage to lower their rates far below what a back-of-a postcard calculation would have told you they’d pay. But, the promise of simpler tax filings matters to the rubes, and the Republicans need the rubes to vote for them, so they pretend they’re working towards that goal.

The truth is that they nearly always push for rules that will inevitably add complexity. Much of the complexity in the code is driven by the way different forms of income get different treatment. Rules that treat forms of income differently — or similar types of economic transactions differently — give people an incentive to recharacterize their income or transactions in a way that lets them use the lower tax rate. Then that drives the creation of new rules to prevent abuse of the old rules. That’s how the rules grow so dramatically.

Here’s a simple example from one of my own clients. I had a client who wanted maintenance done on some very expensive assets. All that was needed was to pay a service provider to come in and do the work. But my client instead wanted a Byzantine contract where instead, he sold the assets to the service provider, who then did the work, and sold them back. This was a lot more complex, legally, because of the transfers in ownership, which required options, etc., to make sure the client could require them to be sold. Why go through that? Well, if it’s a sale and purchase, it gets better tax treatment (capex) than if it’s just maintenance (opex). It’s the exact same real-world transaction either way, but the client was willing to pay a lot of money to have it look different on paper. And that involved plenty of legal research, because the IRS polices that trick. They want to make sure it’s a genuine sale, not a disguised maintenance contract, and so there are a bunch of additional rules about what constitutes a genuine sale. Then businesses find ways to comply with those rules while still disguising maintenance as a sale, and so additional rules are made to prevent that. And so on.

The current tax bill increases the number of ways that similar economic transactions get different treatment, and thus it will accelerate that process. Paul Krugman pointed out one example. Because the Republicans despise people who work for a living, they want business owners to pay lower taxes than employees. But, that creates an incentive for people to create businesses that are basically just selling their professional services. So, the code builds in a lot of complexity to try to prevent that — so that, for example, an economist working for a company can’t instead form a one-man economic consulting firm pass-through that sells his services to the company, and thereby lower his taxes. So, the rules prevent certain professions from doing that, including economists. But, in theory, the economist could sell novelty t-shirts, and thereby characterize himself as a t-shirt company that does some economic consulting on the side.... and the t-shirt company would be eligible for the superior tax treatment. So, more rules are needed to prevent that — for example, a rule requiring that more than 50% of the revenues come from the qualifying activity. But clever people can game those rules — for example, create a bunch of nested subsidiaries, where at each level 51% of revenues come from a qualifying entity, but at the bottom of the structure is a very small t-shirt operation that gets great tax treatment for a very large economic consulting firm. So, more rules are needed to prevent that. And so on.

There are ways to fight complexity, but they involve removing such special treatment. Stop treating business owners as superior to mere workers, for tax treatment. Stop treating unearned income (interest, dividends, capital gains, gifts, and inheritance) as better than earned income. The more you can reduce the incentive to recharacterize economic transactions for tax reasons, the fewer rules you need to prevent such behavior. If, for example, a CEO doesn’t have a tax reason to care whether his compensation shows up as salary or as a capital gain on a stock option or discounted company stock, then you don’t need a lot of rules to prevent salary from being recharacterize as one of those other things.,

Most won't itemize now so it will be easier.
 
Education, The US ranks at the bottom of industrialized nations in every category but self confidence while at the same time we spend more per student than those very same other countries
Imho, the US spends too much on administration as opposed to "education"
6a00e54f8c25c98834014e892f53aa970d-450wi

"The United States spent more than $11,000 per elementary student in 2010 and more than $12,000 per high school student.

"When researchers factored in the cost for programs after high school education such as college or vocational training, the United States spent $15,171 on each young person in the system — more than any other nation covered in the report."

"That sum inched past some developed countries and far surpassed others. Switzerland's total spending per student was $14,922 while Mexico averaged $2,993 in 2010. The average OECD nation spent $9,313 per young person"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/
 
Of course what you are talking about here is them being able to turn earned income into unearned income, thereby qualifying for the lower tax rate on those forms of income. The reason for the lower rate is that corporate taxes, in all fairness, need to be added to the corporations' owners personal taxes to determine their full tax burden. The fact that they can game the corporate tax in the way you describe should be expected. People don't like to pay taxes.

A) First off, people in the maximum bracket will pay 20% on unearned income, so even if they can zero out their corporate tax burden, they still pay 20% in total, which is more than 75% of Americans. Since it is safe to assume very few people can do that, it is safe to say that they will still pay 30 to 40% in total combined business and personal taxes.

B) If you eliminated taxation on businesses, and taxed dividends and capital gains as ordinary income, as I have advocated for years (and you have resisted) you would eliminate this problem of people gaming the dual taxation of business income to lower their effective rate, and create something like 25 to 50 million new jobs in the process.

THAT is how you "simplify the tax code." Nothing you are seeking in this matter will do anything to accomplish that goal...
 
There, in a nutshell, is the story of Republican success. They’re very good at handing dumb people easily understood talking points. “File your taxes on a postcard.” Mentally lazy people will always prefer a short lie to a long truth.

That's not even a good non-sequitur. Try again.
 
Imho, the US spends too much on administration as opposed to "education"
6a00e54f8c25c98834014e892f53aa970d-450wi

"The United States spent more than $11,000 per elementary student in 2010 and more than $12,000 per high school student.

"When researchers factored in the cost for programs after high school education such as college or vocational training, the United States spent $15,171 on each young person in the system — more than any other nation covered in the report."

"That sum inched past some developed countries and far surpassed others. Switzerland's total spending per student was $14,922 while Mexico averaged $2,993 in 2010. The average OECD nation spent $9,313 per young person"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/

I've been told the further away you get from the classroom, the more money there is. It should be the opposite, overall.
 
I've been told the further away you get from the classroom, the more money there is. It should be the opposite, overall.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/

"The average first-year high school teacher in the United States earns about $38,000. OECD nations pay their comparable educators just more than $31,000.

"That trails Luxembourg, which pays its first year teachers more than $72,000 a year, but far exceeds the $10,000 paid to first-year high school teachers in Slovakia.

"Among all educators, U.S. payrolls are competitive.

"The average high school teacher in the United States earns about $53,000, well above the average of $45,500 among all OECD nations.

"Even so, other nations have increased teachers' salaries more quickly than the United States, which has been confronting tighter budgets as a result of the economic recession.

"'Teachers' salaries represent the largest single cost in formal education and have a direct impact on the attractiveness of the teaching profession,' the report states. 'Since compensation and working conditions are important for attracting, developing and retaining skilled and high-quality teachers, policy makers should carefully consider teachers' salaries as they try to ensure both quality teaching and sustainable education budgets.'"

We're still using an education system designed to meet the demands of the industrial revolution.

Technology is changing too quickly today for that model to succeed, imho.

Parents download educational games as soon as their children have the dexterity to operate a touch screen; however, that can make it difficult for teachers to keep up in the classroom, particularly because each student's knowledge base and tech savvy varies widely.

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/educ...asons_the_us_education_system_is_failing.html
 
Republicans like to talk about simplifying the tax code — holding out a vision of most people filing their taxes on a postcard. They do not, of course, actually care about that. They work for the rich donors, and the donor class has their taxes done by professionals. They see tax complexity is a good thing, because it’s in that thicket of special rules and exceptions that they manage to lower their rates far below what a back-of-a postcard calculation would have told you they’d pay. But, the promise of simpler tax filings matters to the rubes, and the Republicans need the rubes to vote for them, so they pretend they’re working towards that goal.

The truth is that they nearly always push for rules that will inevitably add complexity. Much of the complexity in the code is driven by the way different forms of income get different treatment. Rules that treat forms of income differently — or similar types of economic transactions differently — give people an incentive to recharacterize their income or transactions in a way that lets them use the lower tax rate. Then that drives the creation of new rules to prevent abuse of the old rules. That’s how the rules grow so dramatically.

Here’s a simple example from one of my own clients. I had a client who wanted maintenance done on some very expensive assets. All that was needed was to pay a service provider to come in and do the work. But my client instead wanted a Byzantine contract where instead, he sold the assets to the service provider, who then did the work, and sold them back. This was a lot more complex, legally, because of the transfers in ownership, which required options, etc., to make sure the client could require them to be sold. Why go through that? Well, if it’s a sale and purchase, it gets better tax treatment (capex) than if it’s just maintenance (opex). It’s the exact same real-world transaction either way, but the client was willing to pay a lot of money to have it look different on paper. And that involved plenty of legal research, because the IRS polices that trick. They want to make sure it’s a genuine sale, not a disguised maintenance contract, and so there are a bunch of additional rules about what constitutes a genuine sale. Then businesses find ways to comply with those rules while still disguising maintenance as a sale, and so additional rules are made to prevent that. And so on.

The current tax bill increases the number of ways that similar economic transactions get different treatment, and thus it will accelerate that process. Paul Krugman pointed out one example. Because the Republicans despise people who work for a living, they want business owners to pay lower taxes than employees. But, that creates an incentive for people to create businesses that are basically just selling their professional services. So, the code builds in a lot of complexity to try to prevent that — so that, for example, an economist working for a company can’t instead form a one-man economic consulting firm pass-through that sells his services to the company, and thereby lower his taxes. So, the rules prevent certain professions from doing that, including economists. But, in theory, the economist could sell novelty t-shirts, and thereby characterize himself as a t-shirt company that does some economic consulting on the side.... and the t-shirt company would be eligible for the superior tax treatment. So, more rules are needed to prevent that — for example, a rule requiring that more than 50% of the revenues come from the qualifying activity. But clever people can game those rules — for example, create a bunch of nested subsidiaries, where at each level 51% of revenues come from a qualifying entity, but at the bottom of the structure is a very small t-shirt operation that gets great tax treatment for a very large economic consulting firm. So, more rules are needed to prevent that. And so on.

There are ways to fight complexity, but they involve removing such special treatment. Stop treating business owners as superior to mere workers, for tax treatment. Stop treating unearned income (interest, dividends, capital gains, gifts, and inheritance) as better than earned income. The more you can reduce the incentive to recharacterize economic transactions for tax reasons, the fewer rules you need to prevent such behavior. If, for example, a CEO doesn’t have a tax reason to care whether his compensation shows up as salary or as a capital gain on a stock option or discounted company stock, then you don’t need a lot of rules to prevent salary from being recharacterize as one of those other things.,
Do away with all taxes and substitute a value-added tax on everything except food. Bingo! NO codes, NO loopholes, NO bullshit.

The rich man buys more. He pays more. The poor man pays according to his ability.

It’s so simple, yet apparently too simple for simpletons...
 
Do away with all taxes and substitute a value-added tax on everything except food. Bingo! NO codes, NO loopholes, NO bullshit.

The rich man buys more. He pays more. The poor man pays according to his ability.

It’s so simple, yet apparently too simple for simpletons...

But... but... but that doesn't rig the system to buy votes. Er, I mean, ummm.... that doesn't make the rich pay their "fair share"!
 
But... but... but that doesn't rig the system to buy votes. Er, I mean, ummm.... that doesn't make the rich pay their "fair share"!
I'm thinking they'll pay their "fair share" when they get slapped with a 20% or whatever tax on their multi-million dollar homes and their million dollar boats, expensive cars and jewelry...

Those that can, do. Those that can't, buy less, but in exchange for the VAT they'll get to keep more of their money in their paychecks. How much they want to spend is entirely up to them after that.

Leftists can't STAND that.
 
I'm thinking they'll pay their "fair share" when they get slapped with a 20% or whatever tax on their multi-million dollar .homes and their million dollar boats, expensive cars and jewelry...

Those that can, do. Those that can't, buy less, but in exchange for the VAT they'll get to keep more of their money in their paychecks. How much they want to spend is entirely up to them after that.

Leftists can't STAND that.

Two things I love the most about it:

1) Drug dealers, thieves, hookers, and other miscreants pay into the system.
2) EVERYONE is reminded how much the federal government costs them every time they buy something
 
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