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The alternative.

Israel leaves Gaza.

Ends the sea blockade.

Waits for Hamas to lash out.

Declares total all out war on Gaza.

Kills all of Hamas and way too many civilians.

Gazans sue for peace.

As an occupying administrative force for a generation and a half Israel ends the teaching of Jew hate in K-12.

Israel City-State-builds Gaza up into a viable political, economic and social unit.

Gaza never joins the West Bank in a national unity government.
 
At this point, even the most ardent supporters of Israel will acknowledge their preference for Abbas over Hamas. Yet, those who actually study the history of the conflict will immediately acknowledge the obvious. Namely, that HAMAS was created and financed by Israel to dilute and weaken the PLO.

“According to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirectfinancial aidto Hamas over a period of years.” Additionally, Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the CSS said Israel “aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO”. A US government official said "The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the others, if they gained control, would refuse to have any part of the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place." Israel on Friday stated they “didn’t seek to destroy Hamas.” The attacks by HAMAS merely a fabricated justification for carrying out pre-meditated plans but with stronger propaganda cover.

Larry Johnson, a former state-department counter-terrorism official, argues that "the Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism. They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it," he said.

They do not incite terrorism by accident or out of incompetence. That would be a ridiculous interpretation. But rather, they incite terrorism because it is low on their list of priorities when compared to their policy of annexation and expansion. 1

The WSJ, quoting a Jewish GAZA specialist saying “"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation." 2 In 2001, Times of Israel quoted Israeli official Michael Kleiner advocating “replacing Arafat, even if it meant the Hamas would take his place. The entire world recognizes the Hamas as a terrorist organization so Israel’s continued efforts against a radical Palestinian leadership would not be condemned.”

Silvan Shalom, referring to Arafat in Ha’retz, he said, "Either we drop everything and get out of there," referring to the territories, "or we throw him(Arafat) out." He added, “Between Hamas and Arafat, I prefer Hamas.” Everyone will understand who we're dealing with, he implied, and there won't be any international protests said Ha-retz, paraphrasing him. The paper continued: “Shalom didn't invent that approach. But up until recently it's been hidden away.” No doubt some here will now be calling the Ha-retz an anti-Semitic paper, their reflexive and knee-jerk response to any information that contradicts their biases.

Israelinationalnews.com reports that US Middle East envoy Indyk said of the recent peace collapse: “themainact of sabotage on peace talks was from the settlements. Netanyahu would not yield an inch" for peace. Indyk now is tendering his resignation, disgusted with Israeli’s refusal to pause settlement construction and the Obama administration’s refusal to criticize Israel. Israel was incensed that Palestine dared apply to be admitted to 15 international organizations, including the international criminal court. Such membership would put Palestinians at risk of being tried as war criminals, a risk they were willing to take apparently. Israel it seems would prefer rocket attacks to mediating disputes in international court.


Netanyahu has indicated is refusal to agree to a Palestinian state recently. A week ago he said “could never, ever,countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in theWest Bank.” Separation “could not extend to full Palestinian sovereignty. There cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.”

In his 1995 book, Netanyahu described “a Palestinian state as a danger to Zionism, and declared his belief in the Jewish right to a state that would not just incorporate the land of historic Palestine, but even potentially incorporate other Arab countries: Jordan is part of the lands that constitute greater Israel, he said.”

Recently, in Geneva after a nearly six-month inquiry for theUN, a panel of three judges presented its view thatIsrael’s settlements “violated theGeneva Conventions, which prohibit a state from transferring its own civilian population into territory it has occupied.” The conclusions were drawn from” 67 submissions from a cross section of academics, diplomats, Israeli civilian organizations and Palestinians.” The ICJ “found that the Israeli construction of the Wall within the Occupied Palestinian Territory violated Israel’s obligation under international law.”

In fact the US vetoed a 2009 UN security resolution condemning the Israeli settlements. The resolution, calling on all sides to abort war crimes, was supported by the other 14 members of the UN security council. The US veto, contradicted Obama’s own policy, that it opposed settlement expansion. In fact, this has been US policy since the first Bush. In actions the US not only funds the settlement activity but has on numerous occasions, roughly 50, blocked international efforts meant to sanction Israel for these war crimes. Additionally, the US can claim to literally have supplied virtually the entire Israeli security forces, including over 200 nuclear weapons, ensuring Israeli the right to violate international law with impunity. Such support for Israel makes the US war criminals as well.

The Red Cross reported “repeated bombings” of water infrastructure said that the entire Gaza population “may face a desperate shortage of water.”

The death toll of Palestinians has now been raised to over 500, over 100,000 refugees and thousands jailed. According to the, “United Nations also said a preliminary review in Gaza found that more than 72 percent of those killed were civilians, not militants, and include large numbers of women and children.” The U.N. Office said the high numbers of children dead may constitute a new war crime.

Such are the measures necessary for a state that has chosen expansion over security. Its war crimes aided and abetted by Washington, who sees Israel as an added benefit to control the region to supplement Washington’s policy of forbidding democracy in the Arab world via the support, installation and maintenance of dozens of dictators

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Se...as-history-tied-to-Israel/UPI-82721024445587/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...4b697a-10bf-11e4-98ee-daea85133bc9_story.html
 
Alternatives:
Hamas agree to end rocket attacks and allow UN isnpectors to disarm sites and monitor them periodically.
Israel agree to end occupation of West bank(with perhaps minor border adjustments), give up homes it bulldozed and settlements and end blockade.

HAMAS respect Israels right to exist
Israel to allow HAMAS to form Unity government
Both countries agree to sign on to ICC allowing both to be indicted for war crimes officially but under the promise of amnesty from here to the past. Future crimes can be tried.

US forbids aiding either side until these core demands are met.

HAMAS must stop using Palestinians for its own aims and committing terror.
Israel must end its policy of expansion and choose security first.

Israel agrees to Iran's offer to create a nuclear free zone in the middle east and gives up its nuclear weapons.
 
Alternatives:
Hamas agree to end rocket attacks and allow UN isnpectors to disarm sites and monitor them periodically.
Israel agree to end occupation of West bank(with perhaps minor border adjustments), give up homes it bulldozed and settlements and end blockade.

HAMAS respect Israels right to exist
Israel to allow HAMAS to form Unity government
Both countries agree to sign on to ICC allowing both to be indicted for war crimes officially but under the promise of amnesty from here to the past. Future crimes can be tried.

US forbids aiding either side until these core demands are met.

HAMAS must stop using Palestinians for its own aims and committing terror.
Israel must end its policy of expansion and choose security first.

Israel agrees to Iran's offer to create a nuclear free zone in the middle east and gives up its nuclear weapons.

You conspiracy theories notwithstanding...

Gaza and the West Bank are two different states. The "two state solution" is patently absurd. Three states is the only true solution.

Hamas will never do as you fantasize because ... because... THEY HAVEN'T!!!!!!

Israel has a GDP of $240B. Aid from America is inconsequential at this point.
 
You conspiracy theories notwithstanding...

Gaza and the West Bank are two different states. The "two state solution" is patently absurd. Three states is the only true solution.

Hamas will never do as you fantasize because ... because... THEY HAVEN'T!!!!!!

Israel has a GDP of $240B. Aid from America is inconsequential at this point.

What I wrote aren't my conspiracy theories, they are the words of American and Israeli officials. If you choose to cause them liars that's your business.

American economic aid is probably worthless,as you said. However, American military aid is not, as it is essentially Israels entire military.

GAZA and the Westbank are not two separate states, try as Israel might to prevent them from being so. My proposal would severely isolate HAMAS, which would be a gain for Israel and the Palestinian people.

As for whether HAMAS would do it, I am not sure. I am strongly against HAMAS policy and think that they are a detriment to the Palestinian people, just as I beleive the Israeli government is to Israel.

You'll note all of the sources I used are Israeli sources, government officials, etc.

You just write a paragraph or two without any evidence. Such tactics are juvenile and worthless, in my opinion.
 
You conspiracy theories notwithstanding...

Gaza and the West Bank are two different states. The "two state solution" is patently absurd. Three states is the only true solution.

Hamas will never do as you fantasize because ... because... THEY HAVEN'T!!!!!!

Israel has a GDP of $240B. Aid from America is inconsequential at this point.
The two state solution is actually the preferred method of the entire world, the Israeli people, the American people, etc. To call it absurd is to say you know more then essentially the rest of the world.
 
Israel will never cut a deal as long as we are flooding them with cash and arms. They like the status quo - keeping control of all the land they control, especially Israel proper and much of the West Bank.
 
Israel will never cut a deal as long as we are flooding them with cash and arms. They like the status quo - keeping control of all the land they control, especially Israel proper and much of the West Bank.
We loan guarantee 3Billion (which they have never defaulted on) their economy is 250B. Do the math.
 
Was the top post status quo?

I spoke of what Isarel wants; not what you want. They want the status quo.

You want widespread bombardment of the Palestinians. Not only genocidal, but not something that would end the Arab/Israeli conflict. It would greatly exacerbate it. Your proposal is daffy.
 
I spoke of what Isarel wants; not what you want. They want the status quo.

You want widespread bombardment of the Palestinians. Not only genocidal, but not something that would end the Arab/Israeli conflict. It would greatly exacerbate it. Your proposal is daffy.
All his proposals are. You cant eve tell if they are serious or the musings of a maniac.

Frankly they are barely coherent.
 
All his proposals are. You cant eve tell if they are serious or the musings of a maniac.

Frankly they are barely coherent.

You would think by now that no thinking person would think that the Palestinians can be bludgeoned into submission.

Nope.
 
You would think by now that no thinking person would think that the Palestinians can be bludgeoned into submission.

Nope.
Yes.
But what type of person would advocate it anyway? As you said, its advocating genocide.

We know HAMAS are guilty of crimes. But that doesn't absolve Israel of its occupation, etc.
 
Yes.
But what type of person would advocate it anyway? As you said, its advocating genocide.

We know HAMAS are guilty of crimes. But that doesn't absolve Israel of its occupation, etc.

They are clearly deranged. We have here the very kind of intense hate and rage that fuels the Arab/Israeli conflict there.
 
I spoke of what Isarel wants; not what you want. They want the status quo.

You want widespread bombardment of the Palestinians. Not only genocidal, but not something that would end the Arab/Israeli conflict. It would greatly exacerbate it. Your proposal is daffy.
I don't want genocidal bombardment you dumb ass. I'm outlining the only solution to an intransigent conundrum that would work in the real world.
 
I don't want genocidal bombardment you dumb ass. I'm outlining the only solution to an intransigent conundrum that would work in the real world.

Far from a solution, that would just make things far worse.

History should have told you that the Palestinians will not be bludgeoned into submission. But all use propose is more bludgeoning.
 
Far from a solution, that would just make things far worse.

History should have told you that the Palestinians will not be bludgeoned into submission. But all use propose is more bludgeoning.
They've never been bludgeoned.

And they were always allowed to educate their next generation as they saw fit.

Try again.
 
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