New Posts
  • Hi there guest! Welcome to PoliticalJack.com. Register for free to join our community?

The Draft

Arkady

President
There's a move to have women register for the draft. The gender issue doesn't interest me much, since I think it's obvious that if there is a draft, it should be applied fairly to both genders. The thornier issue is whether a draft makes sense at all.

It's one of those few remaining issues where you find a lot of liberals and conservatives on both sides. Liberals who object to the draft tend to do so on the moral grounds that forcing someone to kill and die for a cause he doesn't agree with is wrong, while liberals who support the draft tend to do so on the grounds that without it the real burden of our wars will tend to fall mostly on the children of the working class, since rich kids don't tend to go into the military (other than the National Guard, to dodge a draft), so a draft promotes economic fairness. As for conservatives, supporters of the draft tend to support it based on the practical issue of how to make sure we have an adequate stream of high-quality bodies to throw at our military adventures, while opponents see it as the ultimate example of Big Brother infringing on individual liberties.

In my case, I oppose the draft on the grounds that it distributes the burden of a national project unfairly. Think about it in terms of the alternative. The alternative is to pay enough that you get an adequate supply of quality volunteers. This distributes the cost -- it constitutes a net transfer of the wealth to those who serve in the military from those who don't. If the cause is sufficiently popular, you may not need to pay a lot. If the cause is unpopular, you'll have to pay a lot more, but either way, at the end of the day, the only people killing and dying for it are those who believed themselves adequately compensated to choose to take the risk.

In the big picture, the draft is a way for older people (who dominate the government) to force younger people (who do the fighting) to do the work for them at whatever price the older people feel like paying. It's like saying "you'd charge too much to do this voluntarily, so I'll just force you to do it at a price I dictate, and if you don't like it, you can go to jail." It's essentially a limited form of slavery. This is one of those areas where I'm more of a free-market guy: let the market set the price for the work. If the price ends up being higher than taxpayers think is worth it to them, then don't go to war.
 
Personally, I don't care much if we have a draft. As you've stated, there are many arguments for and against. But clearly women should have to register for the draft at this point.

If I had it my way, once a draft was started it should be made permanent. And I would arrange the draft so that there were no deferments for anything other than serious physical reasons. I'd also arrange the draft so that the offspring of any politician, being of draft age, would immediately be drafted upon said politician(s) voting to go to war.
 
"you'd charge too much to do this voluntarily, so I'll just force you to do it at a price I dictate, and if you don't like it, you can go to jail." It's essentially a limited form of slavery.

That didn't bother you when it came to health insurance, why should it bother you now?
 
There's a move to have women register for the draft. The gender issue doesn't interest me much, since I think it's obvious that if there is a draft, it should be applied fairly to both genders. The thornier issue is whether a draft makes sense at all.

It's one of those few remaining issues where you find a lot of liberals and conservatives on both sides. Liberals who object to the draft tend to do so on the moral grounds that forcing someone to kill and die for a cause he doesn't agree with is wrong, while liberals who support the draft tend to do so on the grounds that without it the real burden of our wars will tend to fall mostly on the children of the working class, since rich kids don't tend to go into the military (other than the National Guard, to dodge a draft), so a draft promotes economic fairness. As for conservatives, supporters of the draft tend to support it based on the practical issue of how to make sure we have an adequate stream of high-quality bodies to throw at our military adventures, while opponents see it as the ultimate example of Big Brother infringing on individual liberties.

In my case, I oppose the draft on the grounds that it distributes the burden of a national project unfairly. Think about it in terms of the alternative. The alternative is to pay enough that you get an adequate supply of quality volunteers. This distributes the cost -- it constitutes a net transfer of the wealth to those who serve in the military from those who don't. If the cause is sufficiently popular, you may not need to pay a lot. If the cause is unpopular, you'll have to pay a lot more, but either way, at the end of the day, the only people killing and dying for it are those who believed themselves adequately compensated to choose to take the risk.

In the big picture, the draft is a way for older people (who dominate the government) to force younger people (who do the fighting) to do the work for them at whatever price the older people feel like paying. It's like saying "you'd charge too much to do this voluntarily, so I'll just force you to do it at a price I dictate, and if you don't like it, you can go to jail." It's essentially a limited form of slavery. This is one of those areas where I'm more of a free-market guy: let the market set the price for the work. If the price ends up being higher than taxpayers think is worth it to them, then don't go to war.


I am against the draft. Moreover, we possess the technology to completely obliterate any enemy we have without so much as one soldier setting foot on their soil. So, I can not see why we need to waste the lives of our young people other than those who voluntarily sign up.

connie
 
I am against the draft. Moreover, we possess the technology to completely obliterate any enemy we have without so much as one soldier setting foot on their soil. So, I can not see why we need to waste the lives of our young people other than those who voluntarily sign up.

connie

I think warmongers like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton get off on it.
 
I think we should look at whether we need a draft...but what's the point if we have a President who let's the enemy commit attacks on our soil(Radical Islam) and then calls out for gun control.
 
I think warmongers like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton get off on it.
Fortunately, as you know, Obama vastly scaled bacl the massive US involvement we'd stumbled into under Bush. In Bush's last year in office 469 Americans were killed in his ill-conceived foreign adventures. So far, this year, we've lost 10. Will Hillary Clinton continue that move in the right direction, or back-slide into Bush-style bloodbaths? I guess time will tell.
 
Fortunately, as you know, Obama vastly scaled bacl the massive US involvement we'd stumbled into under Bush. In Bush's last year in office 469 Americans were killed in his ill-conceived foreign adventures. So far, this year, we've lost 10. Will Hillary Clinton continue that move in the right direction, or back-slide into Bush-style bloodbaths? I guess time will tell.

I'll be sure to bring it up after you vote for her in November.
 
Fortunately, as you know, Obama vastly scaled bacl the massive US involvement we'd stumbled into under Bush. In Bush's last year in office 469 Americans were killed in his ill-conceived foreign adventures. So far, this year, we've lost 10. Will Hillary Clinton continue that move in the right direction, or back-slide into Bush-style bloodbaths? I guess time will tell.


Actually, Barack Obama expanded on what Bush started. During the Bush years, the U.S. attacked and bombed the following nations: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia. During the present administration, we have bombed Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria. Obama actually ordered a surge in Afghanistan, and under his administration we became involved in an apparent quagmire in Syria, with no good options and no end in sight. These facts are important and should not be glossed over for the sake of a misguided agenda. Obama is no peace maker, or anywhere close to it.
 
Actually, Barack Obama expanded on what Bush started

As a reminder, the comparison emerged in response to the following from Connieb:

Moreover, we possess the technology to completely obliterate any enemy we have without so much as one soldier setting foot on their soil. So, I can not see why we need to waste the lives of our young people other than those who voluntarily sign up.​

So, the relevant question there isn't the number of countries we're militarily involved in (in which case you'd probably be right -- a case can be made that Obama expanded our involvement), but rather than number of our young people's lives we're wasting. From that perspective, Obama definitely scaled things back. Even in the early part of his presidency, when we would scaling up in Afghanistan, US KIAs were going down year after year, and now they're almost non-existent. I don't want to come across as defending Obama too much here, because I'm actually critical of the widespread killing that continues to happen in his administration -- but, just from the perspective of the loss of our soldiers' lives (and more generally the perspective of the supposed need for a draft), Obama's administration has surely been an improvement.
 
most ignorant post of the day, and the day is just starting. You clearly don't understand the difference between "draft registration" and conscription"

everyone registers for the draft. nobody is actually drafted. we DO in fact pay a quite reasonable wage to people who enlist, and follow the program.

draft registration (not conscription) exists solely to record the "potential eligible fighting force" in case of invasion or some other reason congress would RE-institute conscription

I hereby sentence you to log off and read some books, rather than annoy us with this ignorant crap.

dunce.jpg
 
most ignorant post of the day, and the day is just starting. You clearly don't understand the difference between "draft registration" and conscription"

everyone registers for the draft. nobody is actually drafted. we DO in fact pay a quite reasonable wage to people who enlist, and follow the program.

draft registration (not conscription) exists solely to record the "potential eligible fighting force" in case of invasion or some other reason congress would RE-institute conscription

I hereby sentence you to log off and read some books, rather than annoy us with this ignorant crap.

dunce.jpg


I enjoyed the photo of Vice-President Biden.
 
Fortunately, as you know, Obama vastly scaled bacl the massive US involvement we'd stumbled into under Bush. In Bush's last year in office 469 Americans were killed in his ill-conceived foreign adventures. So far, this year, we've lost 10. Will Hillary Clinton continue that move in the right direction, or back-slide into Bush-style bloodbaths? I guess time will tell.

I take it you don't want to talk about Barack Obama tripling the death rate in Afghanistan, his war for oil in Libya nor his unwillingness to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, correct?

Could you end two wars in less than seven years? I could do it in six months.
 
Actually, Barack Obama expanded on what Bush started. During the Bush years, the U.S. attacked and bombed the following nations: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia. During the present administration, we have bombed Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria. Obama actually ordered a surge in Afghanistan, and under his administration we became involved in an apparent quagmire in Syria, with no good options and no end in sight. These facts are important and should not be glossed over for the sake of a misguided agenda. Obama is no peace maker, or anywhere close to it.

Don't forget Obama/Clinton also gave rise to the so-called "Arab Spring", which was of course the name ISIS used in it's infancy.
 
Back
Top