The Ferguson secrecy/leaks are a recipe for disaster

[Bugsy McGurk]

I said it from the outset - the use of secret grand jury proceedings in the Michael Brown case was a horrible blunder, especially if no charges are brought.

No one can have any confidence in the process, as no one knows what is going on. Are the grand jurors being given all available evidence implicating Wilson? No one knows, but the "leak campaign" provides no cause for optimism. It's a leak campaign consisting of only one-sided opinions damning Brown and clearing Wilson. There has to be SOME evidence critical of Wilson, right? Eyewitness testimony, etc. But have you heard any such leaks from the grand jury proceedings? Nope.

So, if no charges are brought, it will be seen as an outrage. A whitewash. All due to the decision to do everything in darkness. A great way to ensure more unrest.

Downright dopey.

 

[Charcat]

Maybe there is no evidence implicating Wilson that anyone wants to swear to. They get fined for lying, you know. It's possible that what has leaked is the truth. Think maybe?

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Maybe there is no evidence implicating Wilson that anyone wants to swear to. They get fined for lying, you know. It's possible that what has leaked is the truth. Think maybe?

Nope. It's just not plausible that there is NO evidence adverse to Wilson.

But the central point is that, when the whole process is secret (except for the selective leaks) no one can have confidence in the process.

 

[Dawg]

Maybe there is no evidence implicating Wilson that anyone wants to swear to. They get fined for lying, you know. It's possible that what has leaked is the truth. Think maybe?

Yeah, it's all about the dead thug............

Police investigating assault & theft following argument between Brown family relative
ST. LOUIS, MO (KTVI) – In a recent statement, Michael Brown’s mother asked that her son not be part of self-serving business or political actions as she pleaded that he be remembered for the good. A reported assault and theft this past weekend may dramatically underscore that sentiment.
It happened Saturday night, October 18th, at about 8:15 pm in the parking lot of Red’s BBQ. It`s the corner of Canfield and West Florissant, just blocks from where Michael Brown was shot and killed.
Police sources tell us Brown`s Grandmother, Pearlie Gordon, along with Brown`s Cousin Tony Petty, were selling t-shirts and other Michael Brown merchandise.
A police report describes a car pulling up and several people getting out. One of those people, was reported to be Michael Brown`s Mom, Lesley McSpadden. A witness described McSpadden yelling ‘You can`t sell this s%$&” One of the relatives, who was selling, reportedly demanded McSpadden show a document proving she had a patent.
The police report says that`s when an unidentified person with McSpadden assaulted Petty so violently that it resulted in a 911 call. A witness tells Fox 2 that the weapon was a metal pipe or pole. The suspect reportedly struck Petty in the face. Medics then took him to Christian Northeast Hospital. The witness said the assault suspect grabbed merchandise and a box of cash believed to contain about $1,400.
It appears surveillance cameras could have captured the fight and be part of police evidence. Police report no arrests at this time

Police investigating assault and theft following argument between Brown family relatives | FOX2now.com

libs will fall for anything and stand for nothing....................

 

[Charcat]

Nope. It's just not plausible that there is NO evidence adverse to Wilson.

But the central point is that, when the whole process is secret (except for the selective leaks) no one can have confidence in the process.

You wouldn't have confidence in the process if it were public.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

You wouldn't have confidence in the process if it were public.

Huh?

Of course I would. Everybody would - doing it in public would ensure that the process is honest. Sunshine is good. When it's all secret everyone is left to guess at what happened.

 

[Cerulean Mutt]

I said it from the outset - the use of secret grand jury proceedings in the Michael Brown case was a horrible blunder, especially if no charges are brought.

No one can have any confidence in the process, as no one knows what is going on. Are the grand jurors being given all available evidence implicating Wilson? No one knows, but the "leak campaign" provides no cause for optimism. It's a leak campaign consisting of only one-sided opinions damning Brown and clearing Wilson. There has to be SOME evidence critical of Wilson, right? Eyewitness testimony, etc. But have you heard any such leaks from the grand jury proceedings? Nope.

So, if no charges are brought, it will be seen as an outrage. A whitewash. All due to the decision to do everything in darkness. A great way to ensure more unrest.

Downright dopey.

It's been widely reported (at least locally here in the St. Louis area) that the prosecutors office has had every available witness to the Michael Brown shooting testify before the Grand Jury. Also, all the testimony before the Grand Jury will be released once the GJ has made it's decision.

As far as the decision to use the Grand Jury: it's standard procedure.

Unless you're sitting on the Grand Jury, I'd withhold judgement on whether or not their decision is an outrage or a whitewash because you have no idea what the totality of the evidence presented indicates.

As far as the leaks go - I hope they find out who's doing it and throw the book at them.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

It's been widely reported (at least locally here in the St. Louis area) that the prosecutors office has had every available witness to the Michael Brown shooting testify before the Grand Jury. Also, all the testimony before the Grand Jury will be released once the GJ has made it's decision.

As far as the decision to use the Grand Jury: it's standard procedure.

Unless you're sitting on the Grand Jury, I'd withhold judgement on whether or not their decision is an outrage or a whitewash because you have no idea what the totality of the evidence presented indicates.

As far as the leaks go - I hope they find out who's doing it and throw the book at them.

That's my point - I have no idea what the evidence indicates. More importantly, the people of Ferguson don't know. If there is no indictment after this secret process (other than the selective, biased leaks) the possibility of a shitstorm is greatly enhanced. It has nothing to do with me prejudging - I have no idea what the grand jury will decide, much less what the evidence is.

And my understanding is that there was a choice - the open forum of a preliminary hearing. But the problem is complicated by the complete veil of police secrecy since the outset. Have you seen the so-called police report? It basically says "A guy got shot."

Not a good scenario.

 

[Cerulean Mutt]

That's my point - I have no idea what the evidence indicates. More importantly, the people of Ferguson don't know. If there is no indictment after this secret process (other than the selective, biased leaks) the possibility of a shitstorm is greatly enhanced. It has nothing to do with me prejudging - I have no idea what the grand jury will decide, much less what the evidence is.

And my understanding is that there was a choice - the open forum of a preliminary hearing. But the problem is complicated by the complete veil of police secrecy since the outset. Have you seen the so-called police report? It basically says "A guy got shot."

Not a good scenario.

The purpose of the Grand Jury meeting in secret is to prevent witnesses testimony from becoming tainted by prior testimony that appears in the media. We all should want honest testimony from all the witnesses, and that can't happen if it's played out in the media like a circus.

This was also the reason why a Grand Jury was utilized instead of preliminary hearing. The large amount of witnesses to give testimony made having a quick preliminary hearing impossible.

Again, all the testimony given to the Grand Jury will be made public once they have made their decision.

Greatly enhanced shitstorm? Dude, it wouldn't have mattered if there was a preliminary hearing or a Grand Jury: if Officer Wilson isn't indicted, there will be massive riots and looting because Michael Brown supporters have already convicted Wilson without having seen or even caring about the evidence in the case.

 

[as seen on tv]

this is so FASCINATING.

When michael browns cohorts in the convenience store robbery were telling lies (leaks) to the media you didn't consider THAT a disaster.

What's disastrous about the factual findings of a legally empanelled grand jury, which heard all the evidence and an autopsy report?

perhaps its a "disaster" if Michael Brown is now judged to be an attempted murderer, instead of a gentle giant with his hands up? Your world view has been upended?

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

this is so FASCINATING.

When michael browns cohorts in the convenience store robbery were telling lies (leaks) to the media you didn't consider THAT a disaster.

What's disastrous about the factual findings of a legally empanelled grand jury, which heard all the evidence and an autopsy report?

perhaps its a "disaster" if Michael Brown is now judged to be an attempted murderer, instead of a gentle giant with his hands up? Your world view has been upended?

Note how you simply assume that the eyewitness accounts you don't like are lies. You don't know that, but you just assume it.

Telling.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

The purpose of the Grand Jury meeting in secret is to prevent witnesses testimony from becoming tainted by prior testimony that appears in the media. We all should want honest testimony from all the witnesses, and that can't happen if it's played out in the media like a circus.

This was also the reason why a Grand Jury was utilized instead of preliminary hearing. The large amount of witnesses to give testimony made having a quick preliminary hearing impossible.

Again, all the testimony given to the Grand Jury will be made public once they have made their decision.

Greatly enhanced shitstorm? Dude, it wouldn't have mattered if there was a preliminary hearing or a Grand Jury: if Officer Wilson isn't indicted, there will be massive riots and looting because Michael Brown supporters have already convicted Wilson without having seen or even caring about the evidence in the case.

I disagree. I think if people could see the evidence themselves they would be much more likely to accept the outcome than if it's all done in the shadows. I don't think people are inherently unreasonable.

 

[PhilFish]

The details on the forensics done to date appear to tell us some specifics. Namely, that the deceased was at some point attempting to grab the gun, apparently at the police car.

 

[connieb]

I said it from the outset - the use of secret grand jury proceedings in the Michael Brown case was a horrible blunder, especially if no charges are brought.

No one can have any confidence in the process, as no one knows what is going on. Are the grand jurors being given all available evidence implicating Wilson? No one knows, but the "leak campaign" provides no cause for optimism. It's a leak campaign consisting of only one-sided opinions damning Brown and clearing Wilson. There has to be SOME evidence critical of Wilson, right? Eyewitness testimony, etc. But have you heard any such leaks from the grand jury proceedings? Nope.

So, if no charges are brought, it will be seen as an outrage. A whitewash. All due to the decision to do everything in darkness. A great way to ensure more unrest.

Downright dopey.

Grand juries are usually closed proceedings. Why should they make an exception in this case? Do you even know if it is legal to make an exception? they should be following up on the leaks though and pressing charges against those people

 

[as seen on tv]

Note how you simply assume that the eyewitness accounts you don't like are lies. You don't know that, but you just assume it.

Telling.

the eyewitness accounts you disapprove of are corroborated by the autopsy report. the ones i disapprove of are inconsistent with any other evidence.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

The details on the forensics done to date appear to tell us some specifics. Namely, that the deceased was at some point attempting to grab the gun, apparently at the police car.

Or so say the bias, selective leaks we have heard. And forensics can theoretically support an account that Brown tried to grab the gun, but forensics alone could not tell us that.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Grand juries are usually closed proceedings. Why should they make an exception in this case? Do you even know if it is legal to make an exception? they should be following up on the leaks though and pressing charges against those people

Please read the thread. I did not advocate for open grand jury proceedings.

 

[as seen on tv]

The details on the forensics done to date appear to tell us some specifics. Namely, that the deceased was at some point attempting to grab the gun, apparently at the police car.

the forensics state that gunpowder residue was found on Brown's hand and the bullet entrance wound, suggesting he was "shot at extremely close range while struggling for Wilson's service revolver"

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

the eyewitness accounts you disapprove of are corroborated by the autopsy report. the ones i disapprove of are inconsistent with any other evidence.

I don't approve or disapprove of any eyewitness accounts.

I don't know what the evidence is. Neither do you. You just happily assume any "facts" that condemn Brown.

 

[PhilFish]

Or so say the bias, selective leaks we have heard. And forensics can theoretically support an account that Brown tried to grab the gun, but forensics alone could not tell us that.

bias. selective. theoretically. i feel the merry go round ramping up. i'm off.