The problem with conservatives...

[resident_evil]

... is that the good ones are too antiestablismentarians to run for office. They reasonably hate government and don't want any part of it. And so bad conservatives and God awful liberals who love and worship government run the show.

There really is no hope to unseat corruption because the corruption is government worship.

 

[Dawg]

... is that the good ones are too antiestablismentarians to run for office. They reasonably hate government and don't want any part of it. And so bad conservative and God awful liberals who love and worship government run the show.

There really is no hope to unseat corruption because the corruption is government worship.

if elected it's same as giving your soul to Satan, appears that is the top politician.

 

[Minotaur]

That is not actually the way I see it. The good candidates from loftier days are still to be found. I think republican voters don't let them get past the playoffs and instead pick flawed candidates if they verbally list all the crazy things republicans want to go after that a national voter pool would never vote for them over. In this case I do think it is republican voters doing this to themselves. Nothing showed that clearer than in the last playoff as all the goofy candidates gave simplistic nonsense about what they'd do with China. Only Huntsman sounded like a man with a brain and gave the important correct answer and he could not survive and get past the republican voters. He is a brilliant man. He would never make it in this environment of stupid-think.

I think old school republicans with brains would run and do run now and then but they have no chance and they are the only ones who could win if they can get past their own brain drain election.

Has nothing to do with liberals.

 

[RickWA]

That is not actually the way I see it. The good candidates from loftier days are still to be found. I think republican voters don't let them get past the playoffs and instead pick flawed candidates if they verbally list all the crazy things republicans want to go after that a national voter pool would never vote for them over. In this case I do think it is republican voters doing this to themselves. Nothing showed that clearer than in the last playoff as all the goofy candidates gave simplistic nonsense about what they'd do with China. Only Huntsman sounded like a man with a brain and gave the important correct answer and he could not survive and get past the republican voters. He is a brilliant man. He would never make it in this environment of stupid-think.

I think old school republicans with brains would run and do run now and then but they have no chance and they are the only ones who could win if they can get past their own brain drain election.

Has nothing to do with liberals.

Huntsman is a bright enough guy, but he's a conservative the way Ben Nelson is a liberal.

 

[crowfoot]

... is that the good ones are too antiestablismentarians to run for office. They reasonably hate government and don't want any part of it. And so bad conservatives and God awful liberals who love and worship government run the show.

There really is no hope to unseat corruption because the corruption is government worship.

lol! folks that hate government should comprise the government!

 

[Minotaur]

Huntsman is a bright enough guy, but he's a conservative the way Ben Nelson is a liberal.

Middle roader conservative in most things but quite conservative in others. He is a can-do guy and reminds me of glory days of the republican party. They had much to be proud of at times in history.

 

[resident_evil]

That is not actually the way I see it. The good candidates from loftier days are still to be found. I think republican voters don't let them get past the playoffs and instead pick flawed candidates if they verbally list all the crazy things republicans want to go after that a national voter pool would never vote for them over. In this case I do think it is republican voters doing this to themselves. Nothing showed that clearer than in the last playoff as all the goofy candidates gave simplistic nonsense about what they'd do with China. Only Huntsman sounded like a man with a brain and gave the important correct answer and he could not survive and get past the republican voters. He is a brilliant man. He would never make it in this environment of stupid-think.

I think old school republicans with brains would run and do run now and then but they have no chance and they are the only ones who could win if they can get past their own brain drain election.

Has nothing to do with liberals.

You are getting what you want as it is. You get people who want to interject government into our daily lives. It is what gives them purpose.

I'm not saying government is bad per se only that the need for a finite sized government is not appreciated by the left nor even the elected right. It is in their cancerous nature to grow and grow. Nothing impedes that. That is the problem.

 

[RickWA]

Middle roader conservative in most things but quite conservative in others. He is a can-do guy and reminds me of glory days of the republican party. They had much to be proud of at times in history.

I have no stomach for the GOP. I was just speaking as a conservative. They (the GOP) don't really embrace the notion of limited government and individual liberty. This is proven by the national candidates they nominate year over year. The clear pattern is that they are a right wing iteration of the Democratic Party...leveraging government coercion of their pet agenda. Both parties have no hesitation wielding the state as primary instrument in address of most things.
They just CAN'T say no.

 

[resident_evil]

I have no stomach for the GOP. I was just speaking as a conservative. They (the GOP) don't really embrace the notion of limited government and individual liberty. This is proven by the national candidates they nominate year over year. The clear pattern is that they are a right wing iteration of the Democratic Party...leveraging government coercion of their pet agenda. Both parties have no hesitation wielding the state as primary instrument in address of most things.
They just CAN'T say no.

Hear, hear.

 

[Minotaur]

You are getting what you want as it is. You get people who want to interject government into our daily lives. It is what gives them purpose.

I'm not saying government is bad per se only that the need for a finite sized government is not appreciated by the left nor even the elected right. It is in their cancerous nature to grow and grow. Nothing impedes that. That is the problem.

I will say this because my fiscal conservative side kicks in; Useless government I can do without. That said the only difference between the two parties is how they want to spend the same amount of moneys. That is where my Social liberal side kicks in as imo the liberal expenditure with a focus on Americas ills is closer to well-spent money than is the conservative argument of what constitutes well-spent identical amount money.

What I don't like is conservatives who want to slash by not touching government Welfare for the rich but do want to slash Welfare for the poor. I never understood that concept. This is a huge discussion if we ever took it on.

The only argument that I buy is spending less money and you may have indirectly touched on that by noting growth.

 

[Minotaur]

I have no stomach for the GOP. I was just speaking as a conservative. They (the GOP) don't really embrace the notion of limited government and individual liberty. This is proven by the national candidates they nominate year over year. The clear pattern is that they are a right wing iteration of the Democratic Party...leveraging government coercion of their pet agenda. Both parties have no hesitation wielding the state as primary instrument in address of most things.
They just CAN'T say no.

I see a pretty big difference between the two parties currently. I kind of touched on a little of that with RE as there is something to be said for lowered spending. Not as swayed on smaller government but certainly fine tuning would go a long way. Anyway, interesting points that can't be dismissed fully.

 

[resident_evil]

I want the Federal government locked in at 15% of GDP by constitutional amendment. If they want more money the Federal govt. has to grow the economy.

I want everybody to pay 15% of their income in taxes. No refund for any filers and no breaks. Even the guy who makes only 10K pays 15%. You wanna vote? You gotta pay.

Government is inefficient because it does not have a finite source of funding.

 

[RickWA]

I see a pretty big difference between the two parties currently. I kind of touched on a little of that with RE as there is something to be said for lowered spending. Not as swayed on smaller government but certainly fine tuning would go a long way. Anyway, interesting points that can't be dismissed fully.

The trajectory of the Republican Party is astonishing (I'm not referring to electoral success/failure, but rather what the party itself is all about).
It hasn't been a principled conservative entity in decades (not that it was ever a model of conservative principle).

 

[Mr. Friscus]

lol! folks that hate government should comprise the government!

That's actually the healthiest way to look at it from my view..

 

[Jen]

... is that the good ones are too antiestablismentarians to run for office. They reasonably hate government and don't want any part of it. And so bad conservatives and God awful liberals who love and worship government run the show.

There really is no hope to unseat corruption because the corruption is government worship.

In addition to that, I'm thinking that those few good conservatives who get elected soon realize that to get one thing to go their way, they have to allow a whole list of things to go the bad way. Government is a game to those there. It's not about making the nation strong and good, it's about playing poker.

 

[Jen]

The trajectory of the Republican Party is astonishing (I'm not referring to electoral success/failure, but rather what the party itself is all about).
It hasn't been a principled conservative entity in decades (not that it was ever a model of conservative principle).

I agree with you, sadly.
And the conservatives who are there are eaten alive before they even get to the gate.

 

[crowfoot]

That's actually the healthiest way to look at it from my view..

that is the single most destructive way to look at it

 

[Minotaur]

The trajectory of the Republican Party is astonishing (I'm not referring to electoral success/failure, but rather what the party itself is all about).
It hasn't been a principled conservative entity in decades (not that it was ever a model of conservative principle).

As long as the voting public responds to and rewards what you and I know are bogus trigger words they have no reason to change. Whether smaller government is the focus or my issue of well-spent money, we get what we get as long as it is never seriously addressed.

I seriously thought Huntsman had it and has the tools. He at least would be a start for my focus. Your focus on smaller government is a harder one to get across but I think government would actually be smaller if it ever got smart enough to focus only on working models. Kind of a more with less start.

Individual liberty has never been a part of America. Not as long as there have been rules and laws and I suspect those came over on the Mayflower. Individual liberty cancels out someone else's liberty more often than not and that is how laws are created. My way of saying we are screwed by the belief when confronted by the reality. All the individual freedoms are cancelled in a way when they overlap.

 

[resident_evil]

that is the single most destructive way to look at it

You don't know our founding fathers.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

that is the single most destructive way to look at it

Um, if you need a refresher on what being "gung-ho" about government can lead to.. I'll refer you to the history books, and look up pretty much any war that has occurred.

The best government official would be one that doesn't want the job, but agrees to serve reluctantly for the betterment of the community.