The reason we invented hollowpoints....

[freyasman]

for guys like these....
http://news.yahoo.com/chief-suspects-wore-gps-devices-during-killings-233820619.html

 

[as seen on tv]

i found your thread - it wasn't obvious this was about the rapists from the subject line.

i dont think hollow points have any legitimate use in law enforcement.

however, cartridges capable of piercing body armor . . . those can and should be available to police, but not the public.

hollow points are battlefield ammunition.

 

[freyasman]

i found your thread - it wasn't obvious this was about the rapists from the subject line.

i dont think hollow points have any legitimate use in law enforcement.

however, cartridges capable of piercing body armor . . . those can and should be available to police, but not the public.

hollow points are battlefield ammunition.

ASOT, I'm going to take you to the range and give you a class on all things firearms related one of these days, . Hollowpoints are banned in warfare under the Geneva convention, and any round of sufficient velocity will penetrate armor, but solid rounds, (such as ball ammo) is by far the best choice if that's what you wish to do. Pretty much any deer rifle will punch right thru body armor. Hollowpoints have the best results for stopping a person, while simultaneously reducing over-penetration, which can lead to collateral damage.

"One should carry hollowpoint ammunition in a defensive handgun. Hollowpoint ammunition has much better stopping power than full metal jacket or round-nose lead and stopping power is what you need when being assaulted.


The point is not to wound or kill the adversary, the point is to stop him in his tracks and make him cease attacking you. Stopping power (sometimes called "knock-down power") refers to a particular bullet's ability to incapacitate an attacker; the greater that ability, the less chance that your attacker will be able to continue shooting, stabbing, or beating you after you have shot him.


Handguns are not death rays. Despite what you see in the movies, the vast majority of people (over 80%) shot with handguns survive. Handguns are weak compared to rifles and shotguns and you want every edge you can get. Great ammunition is no more expensive than mediocre ammunition, so carry the best. Rifles and shotguns have stopping power to spare; handguns do not. Thus, you must select your handgun load very carefully and the detail of the handgun ammunition section reflects this.


Hollowpoint ammunition is NOT more lethal than ball (full metal jacket) ammunition. You may have seen media hype about "killer dum-dum bullets," but this is nonsense. Hollowpoint bullets usually expand and stop in the human body and thus the attacker absorbs much more of the bullet's kinetic energy than if the bullet had merely zipped through him and left two small holes. Hollowpoint ammunition is also safer for all parties concerned.

• You are safer because your attacker is more likely to be incapacitated after one or two shots and thus unable to fire back, stab you, or whatever. The decreased likelihood of your attacker dying from hollowpoint bullets saves you the moral and legal complications and expense you will experience from killing a man.
• Innocent bystanders are safer because hollowpoint bullets are less likely to exit the attacker's body and go on to injure anyone else. The ricochet danger is also much lower than that of ball ammunition, and hollowpoint bullets are less likely to penetrate walls or doors and strike uninvolved third parties. Furthermore, if your foe is incapacitated quickly he won't be spraying wild bullets around, endangering uninvolved third parties.
• Lastly, your attacker is safer because he is far less likely to die from one or two hollowpoint bullets than the five or six round-nose slugs you would have had to fire to put him down. Most gunshot deaths occur from shock and loss of blood and ball rounds tend to make entry and exit wounds, whereas hollowpoints go in and stay put. An attacker shot twice with ball ammo will probably have four holes in him rather than two and is thus in far greater danger of death from blood loss. If you can avoid killing your attacker you should, for both moral and legal reasons."

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

 

[connieb]

for guys like these....
http://news.yahoo.com/chief-suspects-wore-gps-devices-during-killings-233820619.html

Indeed - why violent criminals are ever let out of jail is beyond me. I would rather every white collar crime, every drug ( non-dealing) offense, every car theft ( not carjacking but unoccupied car) never spend a lick of time behind bars but lock up every rapist, killer, child molester until the end of their lives if necessary. id o not believe rehabilitation works. I do not believe people change. I think many just stay the sick monsters they were when they went in.

Unfortunately though - our justice system is not what it should be to facilitate that. And, there are unfortuantley tooo many people doing time for crimes they didn't commit. But, I do think we need to prioritize our prison dollars and make sure that people are at least serving the full and complete sentence they get for violent crime.

 

[freyasman]

Indeed - why violent criminals are ever let out of jail is beyond me. I would rather every white collar crime, every drug ( non-dealing) offense, every car theft ( not carjacking but unoccupied car) never spend a lick of time behind bars but lock up every rapist, killer, child molester until the end of their lives if necessary. id o not believe rehabilitation works. I do not believe people change. I think many just stay the sick monsters they were when they went in.

Unfortunately though - our justice system is not what it should be to facilitate that. And, there are unfortuantley tooo many people doing time for crimes they didn't commit. But, I do think we need to prioritize our prison dollars and make sure that people are at least serving the full and complete sentence they get for violent crime.

I am constantly being accused of being in favor of allowing felons to be armed because I am against background checks. My thinking on that is that if our society thinks they're are that dangerous, then why did they let them out of the joint? A guy who maybe smuggled a few million dollars worth of dope, but has never hurt anyone does long time, but some vicious freak who sets homeless and hookers on fire gets out in 2 years due to overcrowding? What bullshit....

 

[Bernard_Fokke]

i found your thread - it wasn't obvious this was about the rapists from the subject line.

i dont think hollow points have any legitimate use in law enforcement.

however, cartridges capable of piercing body armor . . . those can and should be available to police, but not the public.

hollow points are battlefield ammunition.

Hollow points and expanding bullets (Look up Dum-dum) are illegal on the battle feild according to the Geneva convention

 

[connieb]

I am constantly being accused of being in favor of allowing felons to be armed because I am against background checks. My thinking on that is that if our society thinks they're are that dangerous, then why did they let them out of the joint? A guy who maybe smuggled a few million dollars worth of dope, but has never hurt anyone does long time, but some vicious freak who sets homeless and hookers on fire gets out in 2 years due to overcrowding? What bullshit....

It is. And, I agree - if these people are so bad, they shouldn't be let out. Either our sentencing recs are screwed up, or the plea deals are screwed up and this letting out for overcrowding is wack. They jails are probably fully of people who are there for non-violent offenses. Even stuff like DUI's. Don't get me wrong - that is a crime and there should be justice and some monitoring of that person. And, in many ways they are a danger, but to me there is a difference between being a danger because you are reckless and actively finding people to victimize.

 

[freyasman]

It is. And, I agree - if these people are so bad, they shouldn't be let out. Either our sentencing recs are screwed up, or the plea deals are screwed up and this letting out for overcrowding is wack. They jails are probably fully of people who are there for non-violent offenses. Even stuff like DUI's. Don't get me wrong - that is a crime and there should be justice and some monitoring of that person. And, in many ways they are a danger, but to me there is a difference between being a danger because you are reckless and actively finding people to victimize.

There are a lot of predators walking around, and most people simply don't recognize that fact. Remember Maslow's Hierarchy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs For most folks in developed countries, it has been generations since they've had to worry about the bottom 2 levels of the pyramid, and as a result, they don't even realize that it's a real concern in the world. They just can't relate....