This is what a kleptotratic traitor looks like.

[resident_evil]

HOUSE, SENATE GOP LEADERS GEARING UP TO INCREASE GUEST-WORKER PERMITS

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...-Increase-Guest-Worker-Permits-for-Foreigners

He wants to steal the "talent" of other countries who need them for their own economic good to flood our middle class labor market and keep salaries and benefits stagnant. This lets the 1% like Buffet, JP Morgan, and Suckerberg (of Facebook fame) take even more money to the bank for themselves.

They aren't looking for the Einstein or two abroad. They are looking for people to do jobs that they lay off Americans to do.

ENOUGH ALREADY!!! ENOUGH!!!

 

[resident_evil]

This congress already has to be disbanded.

 

[Dino]

HOUSE, SENATE GOP LEADERS GEARING UP TO INCREASE GUEST-WORKER PERMITS

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...-Increase-Guest-Worker-Permits-for-Foreigners

He wants to steal the "talent" of other countries who need them for their own economic good to flood our middle class labor market and keep salaries and benefits stagnant. This lets the 1% like Buffet, JP Morgan, and Suckerberg (of Facebook fame) take even more money to the bank for themselves.

They aren't looking for the Einstein or two abroad. They are looking for people to do jobs that they lay off Americans to do.

ENOUGH ALREADY!!! ENOUGH!!!

I'm shocked and amazed at how few of these leaders care what this type of policy will do to unskilled workers and those just getting their start. Their "compassion" is wildly misplaced and this influence will do nothing but have a net negative effect.

What happened to a conservative Republican party?

 

[resident_evil]

I'm shocked and amazed at how few of these leaders care what this type of policy will do to unskilled workers and those just getting their start. Their "compassion" is wildly misplaced and this influence will do nothing but have a net negative effect.

What happened to a conservative Republican party?

This is about skilled workers Dino. H1B visas are for college graduates generally.

Illegal immigration reform is about the unskilled labor and as it happens skilled labor such as electricians. That is next.

They flood the low and middle class labor and workers market so that they don't have to pay them more. So that the likes of Suckerberg can get even richer.

 

[as seen on tv]

several months ago i read a fascinating story (wsj, print edition) about how latino activists hitched THEIR cause to corporate america hoping to garner more H1B job visas for engineers, programmers, etc. the latino activists hoped to innoculate the 12 million illegal aliens already in this country from political criticism by "proving" that america needs more (skilled, clean arrest record, drug free) foreign workers.

well, several months later, and big business has been totally unable to demonstrate ANY shortage of programmers or engineers. In fact, there are a number of bonafide, born in america citizens with those degrees looking for work.

and a whole lot MORE americans with humanties degrees who would undertake the arduous training if it were offered by a legit employer, and there was a job at the end of the tunnel.

the fortune 500 furor over not enough foreigners with "skills" has all but gone away, since the numbers were run.

I was always skeptical of this premise, as a perusal of my post top posts would show. In what universe would we grant more favors and privileges to illegal aliens and those who hope to emigrate, than our own unemployed?

Here's the suggestion I made at the time, and I renew it now:

Okay, big business - you can have ALL the H1B foreign worker visa's you want, with no numerical cap. But here's my ONE CONDITION:

for each H1B visa granted, you have to hire 10 actual citizens for new positions. 10% of your total workforce can be from India, Pakistan, South Korea, China, etc - actually 100% if they don't need an H1B visa because they're already legal residents or citizens. But if you want to start importing low priced foreign labor to take the jobs that would help our kids pay off their student loans, then you need to hire the unemployed already here, as well.

Any takers, corporate america?

 

[Arkady]

several months ago i read a fascinating story (wsj, print edition) about how latino activists hitched THEIR cause to corporate america hoping to garner more H1B job visas for engineers, programmers, etc. the latino activists hoped to innoculate the 12 million illegal aliens already in this country from political criticism by "proving" that america needs more (skilled, clean arrest record, drug free) foreign workers.

well, several months later, and big business has been totally unable to demonstrate ANY shortage of programmers or engineers. In fact, there are a number of bonafide, born in america citizens with those degrees looking for work.

and a whole lot MORE americans with humanties degrees who would undertake the arduous training if it were offered by a legit employer, and there was a job at the end of the tunnel.

the fortune 500 furor over not enough foreigners with "skills" has all but gone away, since the numbers were run.

I was always skeptical of this premise, as a perusal of my post top posts would show. In what universe would we grant more favors and privileges to illegal aliens and those who hope to emigrate, than our own unemployed?

Here's the suggestion I made at the time, and I renew it now:

Okay, big business - you can have ALL the H1B foreign worker visa's you want, with no numerical cap. But here's my ONE CONDITION:

for each H1B visa granted, you have to hire 10 actual citizens for new positions. 10% of your total workforce can be from India, Pakistan, South Korea, China, etc - actually 100% if they don't need an H1B visa because they're already legal residents or citizens. But if you want to start importing low priced foreign labor to take the jobs that would help our kids pay off their student loans, then you need to hire the unemployed already here, as well.

Any takers, corporate america?

Interesting idea. Just to play devil's advocate, it could theoretically backfire. Picture something where businesses are hiring 10 citizens for low-end jobs, just to make their quota and permit them to hire one H1B worker. In theory you could wind up with citizens filling minimum wage "make work" part-time, no-benefits positions, fetching coffee for the foreign workers, etc.

 

[Arkady]

This is about skilled workers Dino. H1B visas are for college graduates generally.

Illegal immigration reform is about the unskilled labor and as it happens skilled labor such as electricians. That is next.

They flood the low and middle class labor and workers market so that they don't have to pay them more. So that the likes of Suckerberg can get even richer.

Agreed.

I'm more worried about these higher-end immigrants. The way I see it, the low-end immigrants are here one way or the other, and they're filling the kinds of positions that an actual citizen would be overqualified for, anyway. I'd rather focus on creating pathways for citizens to move up to next-tier work (including managing the low-end immigrant workers), rather than working to free up positions on the bottom rung for them by ousting the immigrants. If a job is so simple that it can be adequately filled by some Mexican with a third-grade education, almost no command of English, and limited familiarity with our culture, then preserving that job for an American citizen would be a dubious accomplishment even if we could pull it off. With the H1B immigration, though, we're talking about taking jobs away from people who made a big investment in "up-skilling" themselves. If there's some genuinely unfilled need for, say, more software engineers, then better to spend the money to train up some of those citizens who are currently in low-end positions, to fill those roles.

Software engineering is a particularly promising field to train a good domestic workforce, because it's not rocket science. You can take a motivated person with a high school education some decent mental skills and train him up to be employable as a coder in six months, with almost no overhead costs -- just an empty classroom at a local high school, an overhead projector, and some $50 used computers, plus one experienced coder, is all you need. It's fairly easy stuff, for entry-level coding. It wouldn't be a huge taxpayer spend to fill our need internally, instead of importing work.

 

[resident_evil]

Interesting idea. Just to play devil's advocate, it could theoretically backfire. Picture something where businesses are hiring 10 citizens for low-end jobs, just to make their quota and permit them to hire one H1B worker. In theory you could wind up with citizens filling minimum wage "make work" part-time, no-benefits positions, fetching coffee for the foreign workers, etc.

The rest of the world needs the bulk of the H1B workers. We just need their Einsteins.

 

[resident_evil]

The way I see it, the low-end immigrants are here one way or the other, and they're filling the kinds of positions that an actual citizen would be overqualified for, anyway.

This is simply not true. Not only that we have many citizens unable or unwilling to work at higher value jobs as a matter of life choices. We will always have them and you can't crowd them out and up with illegals. Machines (i.e. robots and AI) are coming to do the jobs of illegals. Illegals need to go back to where that fact is still down the road for them.

Illegals absent a job will go home. They will take their children with them. There may be as many as 20Million this time and the next amnesty would be just as large or larger.

Another amnesty sets a permanent precedent and I am against it.

 

[Arkady]

This is simply not true. Not only that we have many citizens unable or unwilling to work at higher value jobs as a matter of life choices. We will always have them and you can't crowd them out and up with illegals. Machines (i.e. robots and AI) are coming to do the jobs of illegals. Illegals need to go back to where that fact is still down the road for them.

Illegals absent a job will go home. They will take their children with them. There may be as many as 20Million this time and the next amnesty would be just as large or larger.

Another amnesty sets a permanent precedent and I am against it.

I'm comfortable pushing citizens to up-skill themselves to fill better jobs, so long as we provide the tools that make that possible, and social assistance for the handful who are genuinely disabled. If an able-bodied citizen with a more or less normal IQ and no serious mental problems is filling a position that could be adequately filled by some dropout from a third-world grade-school who barely speaks the language, then he needs to step up his game. If the problem is that he can't afford the training to build better skills, then we should be subsidizing that. But I see no value in having him continue to squander himself in that kind of role.

 

[resident_evil]

I'm comfortable pushing citizens to up-skill themselves to fill better jobs, so long as we provide the tools that make that possible, and social assistance for the handful who are genuinely disabled. If an able-bodied citizen with a more or less normal IQ and no serious mental problems is filling a position that could be adequately filled by some dropout from a third-world grade-school who barely speaks the language, then he needs to step up his game. If the problem is that he can't afford the training to build better skills, then we should be subsidizing that. But I see no value in having him continue to squander himself in that kind of role.

I'm more interested in spurring AI and robots to do a - third world - third grade drop out - job than paying the true cost of that illegals presence in the country. They will never put enough into the system to pay their way. Especially when it comes to retirement.

I imagine you get that concept of creating a vacuum to be filled considering the policies that you propose that spur higher mpg's and alternative energies. It seems mildly hypocritical if you to say otherwise.

 

[Arkady]

I'm more interested in spurring AI and robots to do a - third world - third grade drop out - job than paying the true cost of that illegals presence in the country. They will never put enough into the system to pay their way. Especially when it comes to retirement.

I imagine you get that concept of creating a vacuum to be filled considering the policies that you propose that spur higher mpg's and alternative energies. It seems mildly hypocritical if you to say otherwise.

I'm not convinced that these immigrants will be a net cost to the country, long term. They're only eligible for retirement benefits to the extent they pay into the retirement system, just like the rest of us.

 

[resident_evil]

I'm not convinced that these immigrants will be a net cost to the country, long term. They're only eligible for retirement benefits to the extent they pay into the retirement system, just like the rest of us.

It takes ten years to get back what you put in on average (so far). Many of us are living past those ten years so adding illegals to the pot with their meager contributions given their pay scale means they are a greater liability. They won't be allowed to starve so they will be drain.

 

[Arkady]

It takes ten years to get back what you put in on average (so far). Many of us are living past those ten years so adding illegals to the pot with their meager contributions given their pay scale means they are a greater liability. They won't be allowed to starve so they will be drain.

They could, rather, be a big help. The risk to retirement systems comes from dependency ratios. When the population keeps growing quickly, you have lots of workers per retiree, and even a retirement system that lets people take out more value than they put in is sustainable, as long as that population growth continues. Where you run into trouble, with a pay-as-you-go system, is when population growth stalls, such that you can no longer have people take out more than they paid in, because there isn't a bigger generation following them that's able to make up the difference. This is the crisis that European countries with low population growth are facing. And to a lesser extent, it's what is behind our own problem, with Gen X being too small to support Baby Boomer retirements. If your native population isn't breeding fast enough to avoid that problem, in theory you can remedy it by encouraging immigration. As long as most of the immigrants are demographically younger than the population as a whole, this should tend to decrease the funding gap for retirements. And if the immigrants breed at a higher rate than the native population, this should also help.

 

[resident_evil]

They could, rather, be a big help. The risk to retirement systems comes from dependency ratios. When the population keeps growing quickly, you have lots of workers per retiree, and even a retirement system that lets people take out more value than they put in is sustainable, as long as that population growth continues. Where you run into trouble, with a pay-as-you-go system, is when population growth stalls, such that you can no longer have people take out more than they paid in, because there isn't a bigger generation following them that's able to make up the difference. This is the crisis that European countries with low population growth are facing. And to a lesser extent, it's what is behind our own problem, with Gen X being too small to support Baby Boomer retirements. If your native population isn't breeding fast enough to avoid that problem, in theory you can remedy it by encouraging immigration. As long as most of the immigrants are demographically younger than the population as a whole, this should tend to decrease the funding gap for retirements. And if the immigrants breed at a higher rate than the native population, this should also help.

See, it isn't population that has to grow but rather productivity (robots and AI). And to the degree the population needs to grow that is a cultural thing that can be encouraged with greater wealth that would support children (i.e. stop stagnant wages policies).

A replenishment rate population is also better for the environment and consumption of natural resources levels.

 

[Arkady]

See, it isn't population that has to grow but rather productivity (robots and AI). And to the degree the population needs to grow that is a cultural thing that can be encouraged with greater wealth that would support children (i.e. stop stagnant wages policies).

A replenishment rate population is also better for the environment and consumption of natural resources levels.

Internationally, a replenishment rate population is better. But since fertility rates are lower in the first world than the third world, there's a good chance that moving people from third world settings to first world settings will lower total fertility rates on a global basis.

 

[resident_evil]

Internationally, a replenishment rate population is better. But since fertility rates are lower in the first world than the third world, there's a good chance that moving people from third world settings to first world settings will lower total fertility rates on a global basis.

Arguably the first world is over populated. England is the size of Oregon and has like 60M people. Germany is the size of Wisconsin (and a little more) and they have 80M people.

America has a nice stable population that needs to start replenishment birth rates which is achieved by giving people better paying jobs. Better pay is being stunted by an over capacity labor pool filled with illegals and H1B visa holders.

Already developing economies have a lowering birth rate. Mexico and some parts of India come to mind. If H1B visa holders developed the wealth of their native countries those rates would diminish even faster.