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Understanding the First Amendment’s Religion Clauses

Marcus Aurelius

Governor
Supporting Member
This is an excellent read.
http://www.firstprinciplesjournal.com/articles.aspx?article=1485

The First Amendment, which became part of the Constitution of the United States on December 15, 1791, as the leading article in the Bill of Rights, begins with this pair of clauses: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” The Amendment then stipulates that Congress shall make no law “abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” This juxtaposition prompts a question: Why wasn’t the Free-Exercise Clause (Congress shall make no law “prohibiting the free exercise” of religion) sufficient in itself? No other First Amendment right—freedom of speech, press, peaceable assembly, or petition—has a pair of clauses devoted to it.

An establishment of religion is a declaration by a government, in a law, of a preference for one particular religion, which the law names. This declaration of a preference is substantial and not just nominal, because the establishment law grants the preferred religion some substantial benefit that government alone can confer. The establishment law confers the benefit on the identified religion only; the churches of other religions, and persons unaffiliated with any organized religion, are excluded from receiving it. Typically, the benefit bestowed is the privilege of receiving institutional support from public revenues or the privilege to vote and hold public office—sometimes a combination of both. No establishment of religion exists when a government treats the members of every faith equally, tolerates free, public expression of any religious faith, and enacts no establishment law bestowing a substantial governmental benefit on one religion to the exclusion of all others.

Historically speaking, it is implausible to claim that personal expressions of religious belief—for example, voluntary participation in a group prayer or the silent prayer of an individual—could constitute a religious establishment just because they occur on public property with the approval of elected or lawfully appointed public officials. Yet that was what the Supreme Court held in its 1962 judgment in Engel and in its 1985 judgment in Wallace v. Jaffree. The former held unconstitutional voluntary participation in group prayer and the latter, individual silent prayer, in public schools when approved by school officials. In Engel v. Vitale the Supreme Court misconstrued “an establishment of religion” to mean the approval of religious exercises by public officials, even though their approval conferred no exclusive benefit on any religious congregation. In Engel, the Supreme Court moved from protecting religious exercises in public schools, under the First Amendment’s Free-Exercise Clause, to condemning them as religious establishments.

The religion clauses for the First Amendment that Madison introduced in the House of Representatives read as follows: “The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, [n]or shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, nor on any pretext, infringed.” This awkward wordiness was amended by a majority of his colleagues in the House, under the leadership of Fisher Ames of Massachusetts, to read: “Congress shall make no law establishing Religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, nor shall the rights of conscience be infringed.” The Senate then amended that language further to, “Congress shall make no law establishing articles of faith or a mode of worship, or prohibiting the free exercise of religion.” All three of these statements had the evident aim of prohibiting Congress from enacting a law that would, in Madison’s words, establish “any national religion.” And despite their various styles and various degrees of specificity, all of them protected the free exercise of religious beliefs.

None of this history of the Establishment Clause, however, restrained the Supreme Court in 1962 in its school prayer decision. In Engel, the Court ignored both the historical meaning of an establishment of religion and the Establishment Clause’s history. The Court in this case applied an unhistorical meaning of religious establishments and claimed an unwarranted jurisdiction to regulate religious practices in the states.

By relying in 1962, in Engel v. Vitale, on Hugo Black’s grossly inflated definition of religious establishment in his 1947 Everson decision, the Supreme Court was building its precedents on an illogical foundation. But the 1962 decision was unsound in other ways as well. For it is certainly unsound jurisprudence, even in the most freewheeling theory of constitutional interpretation, to use one provision of the Constitution to suppress another provision, as was done in Engel v. Vitale when the Establishment Clause was used to suppress the First Amendment’s Free-Exercise Clause. The provisions of the Constitution must be presumed, on principle, to be parts of the same coherent law, and interpreted as being consistent with each other and in no sense containing mutual contradictions.

Legal arguments based on offended feelings have dubious constitutional legitimacy. No provision in the U.S. Constitution guarantees citizens immunity against having their religious or political sensibilities offended by the orderly, public expression of the political or religious beliefs of other citizens. To have meaningful rights with respect to freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of peaceable assembly, and freedom of petition, the equal protection of every citizen’s feelings is an inherently impossible goal. When it comes to exercising First Amendment rights, the equal protection of feelings is not something government can aim to accomplish.

The inconsistencies and vacillations, the historical inaccuracies and injudicious rationalizations, the occasional ideological dogmatism and sometimes the sheer absence of logic that one encounters in reviewing the opinions of the Supreme Court on religious matters since 1947 have led one commentator to observe that the Court’s jurisprudence regarding religion is “an intellectual mess.”2 But how to correct this mess? Over the past two decades, a sophisticated literature has emerged that plainly reveals the historical fallacies and tendentious theorizing that lie at the basis of the Court’s religion decisions. Yet still, decisions such as Engel have not been overturned. The Court remains adamant in its defense of the secularism of public institutions. It seems only a new constitutional amendment could return us to the religious liberty envisioned in the First Amendment. One thing is certain: to relegate freedom of religion solely to nonpublic venues is an unconstitutional suppression of belief in God, a belief that has been of central importance to Americans throughout their history.


Discuss.
 
You have really??
How much of the majority opinion report have you read?
Opinions are like [Unwelcome language removed], everyone has one. There was a minority opinion too with a 5-4 vote. How much of it did you read?
 
Opinions are like [Unwelcome language removed], everyone has one. There was a minority opinion too with a 5-4 vote. How much of it did you read?
That's obviously not the point.
You dodged my question.
Your claim is that you were trying to understand a decision. So how much of the majority opinion have you read?

I'm assuming by your short response that the answer is 0.

If not, what other kind of help would you like? Want someone to walk you through it, like a child?
 
If you read an unbiased history of the Supreme Court you will find the simple fact is that justice Hugo Black, a huge Catholic hater, completely ignored the wording of the First Amendment.

He used the phrase "separation of church and state," which comes, not from the Constitution, but from a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Danbury Baptists, which promised them that the government would NOT interfere with the Baptists' religious practices.

Black took that phrase and used it to completely reverse the meaning of Jefferson's letter and decided that the government in fact DID have a right to ban religious practices.

If you actually read the First Amendment it says that " Congress shall make no law."

Praying in school, prayer at a high school football fame, a nativity scene on the courthouse steps, a Christmas tree in city hall, etc., etc., etc., are not 'congress making a law.' and therefore are legitimate and constitutional.

Every time the government bans those practices it is violating the first amendment.

Just another reason we have to get rid of Democrats. You can't negotiate with them, you can't compromise with them, you have to obliterate them.
 
If you read an unbiased history of the Supreme Court you will find the simple fact is that justice Hugo Black, a huge Catholic hater, completely ignored the wording of the First Amendment.

He used the phrase "separation of church and state," which comes, not from the Constitution, but from a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Danbury Baptists, which promised them that the government would NOT interfere with the Baptists' religious practices.

Black took that phrase and used it to completely reverse the meaning of Jefferson's letter and decided that the government in fact DID have a right to ban religious practices.

If you actually read the First Amendment it says that " Congress shall make no law."

Praying in school, prayer at a high school football fame, a nativity scene on the courthouse steps, a Christmas tree in city hall, etc., etc., etc., are not 'congress making a law.' and therefore are legitimate and constitutional.

Every time the government bans those practices it is violating the first amendment.


Just another reason we have to get rid of Democrats. You can't negotiate with them, you can't compromise with them, you have to obliterate them.
DING DING DING! We have a winner!
 
I agree with the author of the article. I think this trend towards denying religious liberty in public - i.e. in pubic prayer, in schools, etc - Is the antithesis of what the first amendment was all about.

Kids were never stopped from praying in school.
 
Kids were never stopped from praying in school.

I know that they haven't been stopped - yet. But my issue is with the general trend towards disparaging, discouraging and outright eliminating it. I think that is exactly the opposite of what the first ammendment was intended to do.
 
That's obviously not the point.
You dodged my question.
Your claim is that you were trying to understand a decision. So how much of the majority opinion have you read?

I'm assuming by your short response that the answer is 0.

If not, what other kind of help would you like? Want someone to walk you through it, like a child?
I don't have to read the majority opinion, the reasoning of the opinion has been well covered by the media, to know I don't agree with their logic. Just like you don't have to read the minority opinion to know you don't agree with it. You didn't answer my question either, how much of the minority opinion have you read? Do you need some help like a child too?
 
Kids were never stopped from praying in school.
Some schools allow a 'moment of silence'. But you can't pray openly at those schools. That's walking the margins of the first amendment.

And what about the banning of prayer at graduation ceremonies, the banning of nativity scenes, Christmas trees, etc. on public property. The forced removal of crucifixes from certain local and federal government cemeteries etc.


There are many instances of the violation of the First Amendment. Luckily I live in a area where we pray, and celebrate Christianity openly on public and private land.
 
I know that they haven't been stopped - yet. But my issue is with the general trend towards disparaging, discouraging and outright eliminating it. I think that is exactly the opposite of what the first ammendment was intended to do.

It's up to people of faith to keep on keeping on. Wanna pray at school? Pray at school. There have always been folks trying to discourage any communication with God whatsoever.

If teachers led prayer every morning like they used to, no school work would ever be done if they took the time to represent all the faiths present in the classroom.
 
It's up to people of faith to keep on keeping on. Wanna pray at school? Pray at school. There have always been folks trying to discourage any communication with God whatsoever.

If teachers led prayer every morning like they used to, no school work would ever be done if they took the time to represent all the faiths present in the classroom.
And that's exactly what we are doing down here. Much to the chagrin of the ACLU who have been trying to find someone to file a lawsuit for years.
 
It's up to people of faith to keep on keeping on. Wanna pray at school? Pray at school. There have always been folks trying to discourage any communication with God whatsoever.

If teachers led prayer every morning like they used to, no school work would ever be done if they took the time to represent all the faiths present in the classroom.

I am not saying the teachers should lead - but I wouldn't have a problem with saying - ok take a moment of silence and pray to your God if you have one. But, then I also dont' think that we need to worry about and include every single thing or person. Life sucks sometimes and sometimes you are excluded. It doesn't have to be done meanly and there should be no repercussions from it, but sometimes you don't fit it and it is what it is. This trend of never offending, making sure everyone is included, etc - isn't actually inclusive at all. It is divisive because people will congregate with those like them and naturally exclude those who aren'. But, it group that have chosen to come together via their common ground, it makes them stronger and more united. What we have less of and less of is any common ground and that has lead to divisiveness.
 
Some schools allow a 'moment of silence'. But you can't pray openly at those schools. That's walking the margins of the first amendment.

And what about the banning of prayer at graduation ceremonies, the banning of nativity scenes, Christmas trees, etc. on public property. The forced removal of crucifixes from certain local and federal government cemeteries etc.


There are many instances of the violation of the First Amendment. Luckily I live in a area where we pray, and celebrate Christianity openly on public and private land.


There are instances when the secularists are violating the freedom. But they're taken to task for it and they usually lose. Unfortunately it happens after some poor kid has been traumatized.

As far as the public displays of religious symbolism....they have a point. Public property that they help maintain through their taxes is being used for an ideology that they believe is fiction. Personally, I think the answer is simple. Let them be successful at having the Nativity removed from the town square. Put the Nativities on our own property. Maybe they'll shut up when they see that fighting so they don't have to look at ONE Nativity has resulted in them looking at a hundred of them as they drive through the neighborhood. But we don't do that. We complain, and we write some letters to the editors of our papers, and that's the end of it.

As far as banning prayer at ceremonies, when was the last time you were at a ceremony and folks just broke into prayer without being led? It's never happened to me. The fact that they win their "Right" not to have prayer led ceremonies doesn't mean that we can't just start praying as individuals in our seats. But we don't do it.

IT sounds like you live in a great place. But what if the relgion that was openly practiced on public land and in public places was another one, and not Christianity? Would you be okay with your taxes supporting the majority faith of the area?
 
I don't have to read the majority opinion, the reasoning of the opinion has been well covered by the media, to know I don't agree with their logic. Just like you don't have to read the minority opinion to know you don't agree with it. You didn't answer my question either, how much of the minority opinion have you read? Do you need some help like a child too?
You're relying on the news media to explain the intricacies of constitutional law?
Houston, we've spotted the problem!

You know what, for next time, just say that you were being tongue in cheek, and you didn't mean to start anything intellectual you were clearly not ready for...deal?
 
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