Unity

[Mr. Friscus]

What would it take to give us unity as a people?

An armed conflict or World War.

Sadly, that's all that can do it.

We used to describe Russia, all throughout the cold war, as monsters, as the enemy, and with apocalyptic language. Once the USSR fell, the biting, divisive language stayed, it was just internalized between the parties.

However, there is a growing segment of the left that I think would never unify under the cause of America, as they have been conditioned to think that America is absolutely a horrible. oppressive, racist state that has received all of its successes unfairly.

 

[middleview]

Horse Shit. Remember Jiminy Peanut.

In 1981 the federal debt was about $900 billion. Reagan/Bush quadrupled that.

The unemployment rate was 7%. The GDP growth rate was about 2%.

By November of 1982 Reagan's unemployment rate had climbed to 10.8%...of course you'll blame Carter for what happened 20 months into Reagan's term...but Reagan's unemployment rate stayed above 10% until August 1983...and did not return to 7% until 1986...Still thinking Carter was to blame?

 

[Jen]

An invasion from another planet ?

So you are saying that if Space Aliens invaded us you would help out a Conservative or Republican in need?

An armed conflict or World War.

Sadly, that's all that can do it.

We used to describe Russia, all throughout the cold war, as monsters, as the enemy, and with apocalyptic language. Once the USSR fell, the biting, divisive language stayed, it was just internalized between the parties.

However, there is a growing segment of the left that I think would never unify under the cause of America, as they have been conditioned to think that America is absolutely a horrible. oppressive, racist state that has received all of its successes unfairly.

I don't have much hope that an armed conflict would unify us. Vietnam didn't. Desert Storm didn't, Afghanistan didn't............ I'm not sure even a world war would unify us.

If we went to war against Russia or China, there is a large vocal segment (those who think America is horrible) who would divide us against ourselves. They would sympathize with our opponent and say the war was our fault. War won't unify us.

Another major attack on a US city (like 9/11) might temporarily unify us. But there is that vocal anti-American (It's America's Fault) crowd that won't be silenced and I don't know what it would take to either silence them or get them to love the USA.

 

[middleview]

No. It is not in better shape. More cops killed than in any year before. Less than 3% gdp growth. Largest tax increase in the history of the us. 92 million out of work. No it is not.

Pulling numbers out of your ass again, Al? There are about 300 million people in the US. Do you know more than three people who are looking for work? I do not. Do I know more than three people who do not have jobs? Yup. My dad, he's 90. My sister, she's 66...and her husband...he's 67. The people across the street have a 2 year old boy...not working.

More cops killed than any year before? That isn't even close to true. In 1974 there were 280 killed. In 2007 we lost 192 officers.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html

How many officers shot in the line of duty in 2016? 64

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/14/us/police-officers-fatal-shooting-line-duty-nationwide/index.html

What tax increase are you talking about?

 

[middleview]

So you are saying that if Space Aliens invaded us you would help out a Conservative or Republican in need?

I don't have much hope that an armed conflict would unify us. Vietnam didn't. Desert Storm didn't, Afghanistan didn't............ I'm not sure even a world war would unify us.

If we went to war against Russia or China, there is a large vocal segment (those who think America is horrible) who would divide us against ourselves. They would sympathize with our opponent and say the war was our fault. War won't unify us.

Another major attack on a US city (like 9/11) might temporarily unify us. But there is that vocal anti-American (It's America's Fault) crowd that won't be silenced and I don't know what it would take to either silence them or get them to love the USA.

Both Desert Storm and 911 garnered nearly universal support for the president....

The 911 conspiracy crowd was a small bunch....from the fringes and easily ignored.

 

[Craig]

Pulling numbers out of your ass again, Al? There are about 300 million people in the US. Do you know more than three people who are looking for work? I do not. Do I know more than three people who do not have jobs? Yup. My dad, he's 90. My sister, she's 66...and her husband...he's 67. The people across the street have a 2 year old boy...not working.

More cops killed than any year before? That isn't even close to true. In 1974 there were 280 killed. In 2007 we lost 192 officers.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html

How many officers shot in the line of duty in 2016? 64

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/14/us/police-officers-fatal-shooting-line-duty-nationwide/index.html

What tax increase are you talking about?

Baseless assertions made by a now invisible poster.

I didn't even bother with his largest tax increase silliness.

The approximate breakdown of the 90+ million:

...For one, it includes lots of people who likely aren’t looking for work. It includes every American of retirement age -- 65 and older. It includes every high-school student at least 16 years of age. It includes every college and many graduate or professional-school students. It includes every person who has a disability that makes it impossible for them to work. It includes parents who are choosing to stay home to take care of their kids. It includes every adult who’s gone back to school full-time. It even includes trust-fund kids who are living off investments.

Put it all together and this is not a trivial group of people.

Out of the 93.8 million Americans age 16 and up who are deemed "not in the labor force," 9.7 million of them are between 16 and 19 years of age. Another 5.7 million are between 20 and 24. And 37.8 million are age 65 and over. (In fact, 17.5 million are over 75 years old.)...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trump-says-us-has-93-milion-people-out-work/

 

[Arkady]

What would it take to give us unity as a people?

Depends how you define unity. We're never going to be 100% unified on everything, and if we were that would be pretty horrifying. Historically, I guess there are times when we were a bit more unified than today (e.g., a short period between the end of the Red Scare and the start of the counter-culture movement). But even those could be argued to be times of less unity, depending on what you focused on (that was, after all, the era of Segregation, which is practically the opposite of unity).

 

[Jen]

Depends how you define unity. We're never going to be 100% unified on everything, and if we were that would be pretty horrifying. Historically, I guess there are times when we were a bit more unified than today (e.g., a short period between the end of the Red Scare and the start of the counter-culture movement). But even those could be argued to be times of less unity, depending on what you focused on (that was, after all, the era of Segregation, which is practically the opposite of unity).

We wouldn't want everyone to always agree on everything. That would be robotic. But there is a persisting current of "America's Fault" for everything that disturbs the flow of things. It goes against the current. There is an opposite against the current thing by the rabid religious group, but that group isn't virulent right now and it never believes in violence or mayhem.

Bucking the current is one thing. Disruption, violence, killing of innocent people in order to change the direction of the current is quite another. That is what is happening now and what has been happening for a while. Those who oppose America in general and believe the cause of the terrorists over the USA. The Unity of which I speak would mean people who believe that way would be few and isolated rather than a growing group that threatens us.

 

[Spamature]

So you are saying that if Space Aliens invaded us you would help out a Conservative or Republican in need?

I don't have much hope that an armed conflict would unify us. Vietnam didn't. Desert Storm didn't, Afghanistan didn't............ I'm not sure even a world war would unify us.

If we went to war against Russia or China, there is a large vocal segment (those who think America is horrible) who would divide us against ourselves. They would sympathize with our opponent and say the war was our fault. War won't unify us.

Another major attack on a US city (like 9/11) might temporarily unify us. But there is that vocal anti-American (It's America's Fault) crowd that won't be silenced and I don't know what it would take to either silence them or get them to love the USA.

I would help out someone in need regardless of their political beliefs. I am saying you will not see unity under a man who is spitting in the face of everyone who disagrees with him. You pick this guy. You get behind him. He is repugnant and has no intention of unifying this country. This whole thing is about his personal glorification.

 

[middleview]

Right?!?

It's very racist and offensive.

How about "Kenyan Shoeshine boy"? That was one of Reason10's favorites.

 

[Arkady]

We wouldn't want everyone to always agree on everything. That would be robotic. But there is a persisting current of "America's Fault" for everything that disturbs the flow of things. It goes against the current. There is an opposite against the current thing by the rabid religious group, but that group isn't virulent right now and it never believes in violence or mayhem.

Bucking the current is one thing. Disruption, violence, killing of innocent people in order to change the direction of the current is quite another. That is what is happening now and what has been happening for a while. Those who oppose America in general and believe the cause of the terrorists over the USA. The Unity of which I speak would mean people who believe that way would be few and isolated rather than a growing group that threatens us.

I don't know what you mean. In historical terms, we have relatively little political violence within the US right now. Compare to, say, the period between the mid-1960s and early 1970s, when you had the assassinations of MLK, Malcolm X, RFK, JFK, plus Kent State, the Newark Riots, the Watts Riots, the Weather Underground, the murders of civil rights activists, the Symbionese Liberation Army, the shooting of George Wallace, and so on. We're in a period of peace and public civility relative to that.

It sounds, from what you're saying, that your issue is with "those who oppose America in general." Who, particularly, are you thinking of? I think there's a tendency to imagine that those who don't have the same vision of what America should be as you do don't support America, but that's not true. For example, I could say that Republicans, because they reject America's traditional role of welcoming the "huddled masses" of the world with open arms, must not support America. But that would be pretty narrow.

 

[marvin martian]

The 911 conspiracy crowd was a small bunch....from the fringes and easily ignored.

They were unfortunately given undeserved legitimacy when Obama hired one for a cabinet-level position.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-jobs-czar-signed-9-11-truth-statement/24507/

 

[MrMike]

How about "Kenyan Shoeshine boy"? That was one of Reason10's favorites.

He'd probably be a "mediocre" one...

 

[Jen]

I don't know what you mean. In historical terms, we have relatively little political violence within the US right now. Compare to, say, the period between the mid-1960s and early 1970s, when you had the assassinations of MLK, Malcolm X, RFK, JFK, plus Kent State, the Newark Riots, the Watts Riots, the Weather Underground, the murders of civil rights activists, the Symbionese Liberation Army, the shooting of George Wallace, and so on. We're in a period of peace and public civility relative to that.

It sounds, from what you're saying, that your issue is with "those who oppose America in general." Who, particularly, are you thinking of? I think there's a tendency to imagine that those who don't have the same vision of what America should be as you do don't support America, but that's not true. For example, I could say that Republicans, because they reject America's traditional role of welcoming the "huddled masses" of the world with open arms, must not support America. But that would be pretty narrow.

You are putting words in my mouth. I specifically said that we aren't and shouldn't be robots who all think alike.

Thankfully we aren't having the kind of violence exhibited by Leftists in the mid-1960's and early 1970's. But there are those who would push us to that point. Our security is a whole lot tighter now than it was then. That's not necessarily a good thing, but it is what must be to make things safe.

The people I am talking about regarding hating America are the "GD America"/ "chickens are coming home to roost" crowd. The crowd that blames the US for 9/11 is the group I am talking about. The anti-police people ("pigs in a blanket" "what do we want? dead cops") and those mayors who allow civil disobedience and violence in cities.

And, oh by the way......... Please be truthful, @Arkady. Republicans welcome immigrants to this country. What Republicans don't welcome are hordes of people coming to this country without documentation. Documentation is all Republicans are asking for.

It is better for discussion if you don't insinuate lies into your post. So thanks for not doing that.

 

[middleview]

He'd probably be a "mediocre" one...

Surely wouldn't be a racist comment...right?

 

[MrMike]

Surely wouldn't be a racist comment...right?

If it were by a CNN host... nah!

 

[middleview]

They were unfortunately given undeserved legitimacy when Obama hired one for a cabinet-level position.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-jobs-czar-signed-9-11-truth-statement/24507/

Do a little research, Marvin. It was a petition asking for an independent investigation.

 

[middleview]

If it were by a CNN host... nah!

A CNN host called Obama a shoeshine boy? I'd bet not.

 

[Caroljo]

How about "Kenyan Shoeshine boy"? That was one of Reason10's favorites.

So then, what someone else says is ok. Got it.....

 

[georgephillip]

If it were by a CNN host... nah!

He's been good to Wall Street

http://wallstreetonparade.com/

"Obama’s farewell press conference yesterday evoked images of his first press conference on November 7, 2008 as President-elect. On Obama’s right stood Larry Summers. On his left stood Robert Rubin. The President-elect was bookended by the very men who had played outsized roles in the events leading to the Wall Street financial collapse that was happening at that very moment. Summers and Rubin were standing there to symbolize that they would play important roles in shaping Obama policy. It gave new meaning to failing up."