Values Voters

[Arkady]

Imagine an alternate world where the Democratic candidate this year had cheated on multiple husbands and gotten knocked up by three different men, giving birth to at least one illegitimate child. Imagine she'd been caught on tape, while married, saying she can't resist kissing handsome men she meets, and that because she's a star she can grab them by their dicks. Imagine she used Twitter to promote a (non-existent) sex tape, and that she took time during a national debate to brag about the size of her vagina. Imagine she'd spent years wallowing in sex talk with shock jocks. Imagine her business ventures included selling alcohol and running gambling establishments, as well as organizing events where half-naked women were paraded around. Imagine if she were a raging egotist who could barely make it through an event without telling you how rich and smart and successful she is. Imagine if she were also an insult factory, who regularly attacked people in profane ways.
Can you imagine evangelical Christians lining up behind that candidate?

Neither can I. But this goes a long way to show how phony the "values voter" analysis always was. This was never about traditional values. It would be hard to imagine a candidate farther removed from what Christians claim they believe, and what their Bible says, than Donald J. Trump.

 

[SouthernBoyI]

I'm voting for Trump

SB
In Jesus name amen.

 

[Sickofleft]

"Values Voters" was a phrase that was coined to help explain why John Kerry lost in 2004. It was bullshit, Lurch lost because he was awful, thankfully he went on the be the worst Sec. of State since the one before him....

 

[UPNYA2]

Imagine an alternate world where the Democratic candidate this year had cheated on multiple husbands and gotten knocked up by three different men, giving birth to at least one illegitimate child. Imagine she'd been caught on tape, while married, saying she can't resist kissing handsome men she meets, and that because she's a star she can grab them by their dicks. Imagine she used Twitter to promote a (non-existent) sex tape, and that she took time during a national debate to brag about the size of her vagina. Imagine she'd spent years wallowing in sex talk with shock jocks. Imagine her business ventures included selling alcohol and running gambling establishments, as well as organizing events where half-naked women were paraded around. Imagine if she were a raging egotist who could barely make it through an event without telling you how rich and smart and successful she is. Imagine if she were also an insult factory, who regularly attacked people in profane ways.
Can you imagine evangelical Christians lining up behind that candidate?

Neither can I. But this goes a long way to show how phony the "values voter" analysis always was. This was never about traditional values. It would be hard to imagine a candidate farther removed from what Christians claim they believe, and what their Bible says, than Donald J. Trump.

That IS hard to understand.

Imagine what an anti-Christ 'ol billery must appear to be to make so many think Trump is a better option.

 

[Arkady]

"Values Voters" was a phrase that was coined to help explain why John Kerry lost in 2004. It was bullshit, Lurch lost because he was awful, thankfully he went on the be the worst Sec. of State since the one before him....

Kerry lost because the juice wasn't quite yet fully drained from the post-9/11 national mania. Most people weren't yet paying attention to just how badly things were going in Iraq, and the drowning of New Orleans wouldn't come until the following year. If the election year had been 2005, Bush would have been beaten soundly. But he managed to ride the last few months of the post-9/11 "honeymoon period" to a victory.

 

[Arkady]

That IS hard to understand.

Imagine what an anti-Christ 'ol billery must appear to be to make so many think Trump is a better option.

As you know, Hillary Clinton is pretty much what the Christians pretend to believe in. She's only been married once, and stuck by her husband even through tough times. She was an engaged and successful mother. As far as we know, she's never cheated on her husband. She's devoted her life to fighting for the less fortunate, and especially children. And she's run a dignified campaign, even in the face of unprecedented baiting by Trump -- always remaining substantive and ladylike, no matter how nasty he got. But since it was never about values, none of that matters.

 

[SouthernBoyI]

Surely you Don't believe that rot.

SB
you done lost yer mind

 

[UPNYA2]

As you know, Hillary Clinton is pretty much what the Christians pretend to believe in. She's only been married once, and stuck by her husband even through tough times. She was an engaged and successful mother. As far as we know, she's never cheated on her husband. She's devoted her life to fighting for the less fortunate, and especially children. And she's run a dignified campaign, even in the face of unprecedented baiting by Trump -- always remaining substantive and ladylike, no matter how nasty he got. But since it was never about values, none of that matters.

Horse sh it.

ACTUALLY.............

As you know, Hillary Clinton is pretty much what the Christians do not approve of.
She's only been married once, but only because she needed to be married to try to appear "normal" while in her quest to pervert the US.
She stuck by her husband even through tough times for that very reason. Being incapable of doing anything on her own early in life that would allow her later access to te foundation of our nation she needed to ride the coat tails of a man in order to get there and chip away at it.
She was an un engaged, successful anti-US politician whose only similarity to a mother was she sired an offspring. And that too was merely a political "tool".
As far as we know, she's never cheated on her husband because she couldn't, who the hell else would have her?
She's devoted her life to trying to convince people she was fighting for the less fortunate, and especially children yet actually has done nothing for anyone other than just enough to make her own family rich without having to explain how.
And she most assuredly has NOT 's run a dignified campaign, lying in the face of people and trying to claim Trump is evil while she is pure as the driven snow.
Always trying to remain substantive and ladylike while still being as nasty he got.

But since nothing has been, is now or ever will be, about values, when it comes to liberals in the US today, ONLY about what they can get from other people, none of that matters.

 

[as seen on tv]

people are voting against Hillary, not in favor of trumps antics.

people are voting against trump, not in favor of a lifetime of political crimes and lies.

 

[Arkady]

She's only been married once, but only because she needed to be married to try to appear "normal" while in her quest to pervert the US.

No. As you know, there's no evidence at all of that. At least at the start, she seems to have been very much in love with him -- how else to explain that such a promising Yale Law grad put her own political dreams on hold to follow a nobody to the butt end of nowhere? Back then, Bill Clinton was just a guy from a poor family and a poor state who'd gotten a good education and was moving back home. He's not the kind of person anyone would hitch her star to out of ambition. She seems to have been genuinely in love with him. And they stuck it out through good times and bad, and raised what by all appearances seems to be a well-adjusted child.

As far as we know, she's never cheated on her husband because she couldn't, who the hell else would have her?

You're honestly not even trying to be honest here. Surely you realize that just about any woman can get laid just about any time she wants, if her standards aren't too high, because there are always horny guys out there who aren't going to be too picky. And although Clinton's not going to be setting too many hearts a-flutter these days, pushing 70, she was a reasonably attractive woman in her time:

If she wanted to fool around, she could have. It appears that, instead, she was faithful to her marriage -- which is more than we can say for Trump with any of his.

She's devoted her life to trying to convince people she was fighting for the less fortunate, and especially children yet actually has done nothing for anyone other than just enough to make her own family rich without having to explain how.

Actually, as you're aware she has been very successful at achieving real gains for the less fortunate.

And she most assuredly has NOT 's run a dignified campaign

As you know, that's untrue. She has avoided the kind of name-calling, profanity, and squalid twitter wars that have characterized her opponent's race. Even during the debates when he desperately tried to drag her down to his level, she remained a model of dignity and grace.

 

[SouthernBoyI]

No. As you know, there's no evidence at all of that. At least at the start, she seems to have been very much in love with him -- how else to explain that such a promising Yale Law grad put her own political dreams on hold to follow a nobody to the butt end of nowhere? Back then, Bill Clinton was just a guy from a poor family and a poor state who'd gotten a good education and was moving back home. He's not the kind of person anyone would hitch her star to out of ambition. She seems to have been genuinely in love with him. And they stuck it out through good times and bad, and raised what by all appearances seems to be a well-adjusted child.



You're honestly not even trying to be honest here. Surely you realize that just about any woman can get laid just about any time she wants, if her standards aren't too high, because there are always horny guys out there who aren't going to be too picky. And although Clinton's not going to be setting too many hearts a-flutter these days, pushing 70, she was a reasonably attractive woman in her time:

If she wanted to fool around, she could have. It appears that, instead, she was faithful to her marriage -- which is more than we can say for Trump with any of his.



Actually, as you're aware she has been very successful at achieving real gains for the less fortunate.



As you know, that's untrue. She has avoided the kind of name-calling, profanity, and squalid twitter wars that have characterized her opponent's race. Even during the debates when he desperately tried to drag her down to his level, she remained a model of dignity and grace.

Hell Hillary got and gets more salty quim then Bill ever did.

SB

 

[RickWA]

Imagine an alternate world where the Democratic candidate this year had cheated on multiple husbands and gotten knocked up by three different men, giving birth to at least one illegitimate child. Imagine she'd been caught on tape, while married, saying she can't resist kissing handsome men she meets, and that because she's a star she can grab them by their dicks. Imagine she used Twitter to promote a (non-existent) sex tape, and that she took time during a national debate to brag about the size of her vagina. Imagine she'd spent years wallowing in sex talk with shock jocks. Imagine her business ventures included selling alcohol and running gambling establishments, as well as organizing events where half-naked women were paraded around. Imagine if she were a raging egotist who could barely make it through an event without telling you how rich and smart and successful she is. Imagine if she were also an insult factory, who regularly attacked people in profane ways.
Can you imagine evangelical Christians lining up behind that candidate?

Neither can I. But this goes a long way to show how phony the "values voter" analysis always was. This was never about traditional values. It would be hard to imagine a candidate farther removed from what Christians claim they believe, and what their Bible says, than Donald J. Trump.

Being a more introspective sort than you paid DNC shills, if I were a Democrat I'd ask myself how inconceivably horrible is my party's candidate that Trump even gets a whiff of any voter support.

But, being blindingly arrogant, pathologically incurious, absolutist lefty ideologues...some must instead attack "values voters".

Introspection? Soul searching? Self awareness? Humility and decency?

None in evidence among leftists, as always.

 

[PhilFish]

Well, if it's about values voters...they really dont have a choice..and ought run from this fiasco as quickly as they can..

or maybe they can distill it in a way that salves their conscience enough to vote for one or the other..

graft vs lust
anger vs gluttony
hate vs er, uh..hate..
there's plenty of spin to go around

 

[Arkady]

Being a more introspective sort than you paid DNC shills, if I were a Democrat I'd ask myself how inconceivably horrible is my party's candidate that Trump even gets a whiff of any voter support.

As you're certainly aware, much of the nation's population is deplorable. You can't have a candidacy that focuses on appealing to decent people without, in the process, leaving a substantial number of awful people for the opposition to attract.

 

[Arkady]

Well, if it's about values voters...they really dont have a choice

Sure they do. One of the two candidates this year is decent. She's a hard-working public servant who has spent most of her adult life fighting on behalf of the vulnerable. She's a devoted wife and mother, and a woman with great dignity, who has avoided any serious personal misconduct that we know of, and who has run arguably the most honest campaign out of any of the dozen or so major presidential campaigners this cycle. She's a model of Christian virtue.

Take a look at it from the perspective of the seven deadly sins:

Lust -- no sign of lust at all from Clinton. At least from what we can see from the outside looking in, she'd fit right in as an upright Victorian lady. As far as we have any evidence, she's been faithful to her one and only marriage for over forty years, and we don't even have evidence she screwed around before that. Trump, by comparison, has knocked up at least three women, including one out of wedlock, has cheated on all his wives, and brags about grabbing the pussies of women he meets.

Gluttony -- well, both of them have a few extra pounds on them, so I'd call this a wash, unless we're broaden the scope and look at how they play into the gluttony of others... in which case Trump, with his vodka and wine operations, his steak company, and his all-you-can-eat casino buffets is worse.

Greed -- this one's easy. Trump doesn't even deny his wallowing in that particular deadly sin. He publicly states you can't be too greedy, thus rejecting about sixteen hundred years' worth of fundamental Christian moral philosophy. Clinton has also made tons of money, too, but presumably less than Trump, and has devoted far more effort to charitable activities, and she at least doesn't reject the idea there's a problem with greed.

Sloth -- tough to knock either of them on this one. Trump may be an unusually inept businessman, but it doesn't appear to be from a lack of effort. He hustles. And Hillary Clinton has been a go-getter her whole life. She's so reluctant to take down time that she pushed herself to the point of collapse during a recent bout of pneumonia.

Wrath -- this one's easy, too. Although we get evidence-free hearsay about Hillary Clinton being angry behind the scenes, the actual evidence we see is of a remarkably self-controlled woman, who can't be baited into yelling even with endless witch-hunt hearings or deliberately mean-spirited debate maneuvers. Hillary Clinton also famously got over her anger about her husband's infidelity and held the marriage together. Trump, on the other hand, lashes out angrily at the slightest provocation.

Envy -- tough to say for either of them on this one, since it's about what's going on inside their minds. Does Trump secretly envy the respect and credibility Hillary Clinton has? Does Hillary Clinton secretly wish she could get away with calling her political enemies all manner of names and yet still stay competitive in the race? No clue. But I'm no mind reader, so I'll take a pass on that one.

Pride -- again, this one's easy. I have no doubt Hillary Clinton is a proud person. I expect every major politician is. But there's a reason Trump is broadly suspected of clinical narcissism. He's a guy who regularly tells everyone how smart and successful and rich he thinks he is. Can you imagine Hillary Clinton saying "I'm really rich," "I'm really smart," and "I have the best words"? Can you picture her bragging about how hot her sexual partners are, and how big her genitals are? No. Me neither.

So, despite the desire of a certain kind of mushy conservative to insist there's some sort of equivalence between the two, there isn't. At least when judged against the traditional Christian standards of morality, Trump is an absolute monster, and Clinton isn't.