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War

What the hell is it good for.

Some cheer it, as if it's no more than a Sunday afternoon John Wayne movie, or a football game. They are completely detached from the reality of war, and for good reason. Most cheerleaders have never been in a war, so they have no idea what it entails.

There was a poem, I read many years ago, by a 21 year old Lance Cpl Lester Atherden, who died 4 March, 1966 in Quang Ngai. Here is his poem. There are errors in the body of the poem, but just ignore them. I made fun of Marines, but I respected them. My fellow classmates who enlisted as well as my cousins, and I weep for all those who died.

FROM MARINE LESTER ROBERT ATHERDEN:

WHO IS HE? YOU SIT AT HOME AND WATCH YOUR TV SIPPING A REFRESHING COLD ICED TEA, THE NEWS COMES ON AND THEN YOU HERE, THE ALL-STAR GAME IS DRAWING NEAR, THEN YOU SEE A FAR OFF LAND, WHERE MEN ARE DYING IN THE SAND, A FROWN APPEARS ACROSS YOUR FACE, YOU'RE TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT THIS PLACE.

WHO CARES ABOUT VIETNAM ACROSS THE SEA, IT'S FAR AWAY AND DOESN'T CONCERN ME, YOU'D RATHER HEAR THE BEATLES PLAY, THAN LEARN ABOUT THE WORLD TODAY, BUT STOP AND THINK A MOMENT OR TWO, AND ASK YOURSELF,DOES THIS CONCERN YOU? IT'S GREAT TO BE ALIVE AND FREE, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE GUY ACROSS THE SEA, HE'S GIVING UP HIS LIFE FOR ME, SO I CAN LIVE UNDER LIBERTY. HE'S FAR AWAY FIGHTING A WAR, INSTEAD OF FIGHTING AT MY FRONT DOOR.

THIS GUY WHO LIVES IN FILTH AND SLIME. HOW CAN HE DO IT ALL THE TIME? HE'S ABOUT MY AGE SO WHY SHOULD HE CARE, ABOUT A WAR SOMEONE ELSE SHOULD SHARE. YOU CALL HIM VILE NAMES AND MAKE FUN OF HIS CAUSE, YET HE IS ALWAYS FIRST TO WIN YOUR WAR. YOU LUCKY GUY, YOU LAUGH AND SNEER, BECAUSE YOU'VE NEVER REALLY KNOWN FEAR. THIS YOUNG MAN FACES DEATH EACH DAY, BUT HE'S ALWAYS GOT SOMETHING FUNNY TO SAY. NO MAIL AGAIN, AGAIN A TWINGE OF SORROW, OH WHAT THE HELL THEIR ALWAYS TOMORROW. THE MORALE IS LOW THE TENSION IS HIGH, SOME EVEN BREAK DOWN AND CRY.

HE WANTS TO GO HOME AND SEE A LOVED ONE. HE WORKS ALL DAY AND STANDS GUARD ALL NIGHT. HE'S TIRED AND SICK BUT CONTINUES TO FIGHT, THE COLLEGE CROWD THINKS HE'S A FOOL, BUT THAT'S WHAT MAKES HIM HARD AND CRUEL. YOU DON'T APPRECIATE WHAT HE WILL DO, LIKE GIVING UP HIS LIFE FOR YOU. HE SACRIFICES MUCH YET HR ASK NOTHING IN RETURN, JUST SO THAT YOU CAN STAY SCHOOL AND LEARN. HE BELIEVES IN FREEDOM AND AMERICAN LIFE, NO PARTIES AND DANCES FOR THIS YOUNG MAN, UNTIL HE COMES HOME AGAIN.

THE DAYS ARE HOT AND THE NIGHTS ARE TOO, WHAT WONDERS A COLD CAN OF BEER CAN DO! HE DREAMS OF COLD BEER AND A THICK JUICY STEAK, WHEN SOMEONE SHOUTS, WE'VE GOT A HILL TO TAKE. SOME WILL BE HEROES BECAUSE THEY ARE BRAVE, AND OTHERS WILL GET A WREATH ON THEIR GRAVE. YOU'LL RECOGNIZE HIM AS HE WALKS BY, THERE'S A SADDENED LOOK IN HIS EYE, HE WALKS SO PROUD YET LOOKS SO MEAN, HE'S CALLED THE WORLD'S GREATEST FIGHTING MACHINE. NO WONDER HE'S PROUD, HE'S A UNITED STATES MARINE!

It is unfortunate that - upon occasion - violence is required to resolve a conflict or to protect from those who would do us harm. War is far too often entered into, no doubt...and certainly most wars are unnecessary. However, it is far too simplistic to merely dismiss all violence and/or war as bad. It can be necessary. It should be entered into reluctantly, as a last resort. This applies to both war itself as well as individual violence. Such things are necessary at times to repel bad things.

If a man on the street accosts my wife or daughter, you can bet that I will swoop down immediately and end the threat. I will not invoke diplomacy. I will not interview him to learn what it was in his upbringing that led him astray.

Threat arrestment is part of navigating an imperfect world. We should hesitate to start wars or violence, but we should be prepared to wage them and end them with purpose on those (hopefully) rare occasions when necessary. It is appropriately no flippant matter.
 
Happy? Not exactly.... But ...... we should not have declared War on him ........he would not have taken any of Northern Europe. He was only interested in fighting Communists not us. immediatly he was freeing the parts of Germany locked in by Poland after failing to do it through diplomacy because of the War manipulators .....Roosevelt and co.
That explains his exploits in Africa.
 
Based on what?

You trust Hitler to do what he said he would? Chamberlain did, and ended up regretting it.

Hitler was also quite interested in killing as many Jews as he could get his hands on. Are you fine with that?

Personally Chamberlain said he was pushed into declaring War by Roosevelt and Jewish Influences ( he said that not me ). He regretted the War as did all concerned other than the completely mad nut cases such as the drunkard money loveing Churchill ( who sold us down the River) and the Bomber Harris's ect.

Of the Jews, none were in Camps before Britain declared War on Germany. And though many died in Camps, of hunger and typhoid, so did German civillians after we destroyed the infrastructure with bombing raids, not especially though were they Jewish ..there were no gas chambers that is pure propaganda ................... with out a shred of proof.................... done Holocaust on here lately so I have no appetite for another marathon :)
 
Personally Chamberlain said he was pushed into declaring War by Roosevelt and Jewish Influences ( he said that not me ). He regretted the War as did all concerned other than the completely mad nut cases such as the drunkard money loveing Churchill ( who sold us down the River) and the Bomber Harris's ect.

Of the Jews, none were in Camps before Britain declared War on Germany. And though many died in Camps, of hunger and typhoid, so did German civillians after we destroyed the infrastructure with bombing raids, not especially though were they Jewish ..there were no gas chambers that is pure propaganda ................... with out a shred of proof.................... done Holocaust on here lately so I have no appetite for another marathon :)


No.



Between 1933 and 1939, Jews in Germany were subjected to arrest, economic boycott, the loss of civil rights and citizenship, incarceration in concentration camps, random violence, and the state-organized Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") pogrom. Jews reacted to Nazi persecution in a number of ways. Forcibly segregated from German society, German Jews turned to and expanded their own institutions and social organizations. However, in the face of increasing repression and physical violence, many Jews fled Germany. More Jews might have left Germany had such countries as the United States and Britain been more willing to admit them.



http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/emig33.html




On three occasions in September 1938, Chamberlain went to Germany in efforts to prevent the outbreak of a general European war over Hitler’s demand that Czechoslovakia cede the Sudetenland to Germany. By the Munich Agreement of September 30, he and Premier Édouard Daladier of France granted almost all of Hitler’s demands and left Czechoslovakia defenseless. He returned to England a popular hero, speaking of “peace with honour” (echoing an earlier prime minister, Benjamin Disraeli) and “peace for our time.” Nonetheless, he immediately ordered the acceleration of the British rearmament program. When Hitler seized the rest of Czechoslovakia (March 10–16, 1939), Chamberlain definitely repudiated appeasement, and he soon published Anglo-French guarantees of armed support for Poland, Romania, and Greece in the event of similar attacks. The next month, peacetime military conscription was instituted for the first time in British history.



http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/104904/Neville-Chamberlain
 
That explains his exploits in Africa.

Italy? And to keep us occupied elsewhere? Lots of differing opinions on it and ones I have not read enough about. We (Britain) had nicked their Empire.

Look at it from another pov ..................... All that the US has/had is lost in one War and you all become paupers with hardly enough food to put on the table ..............all of you. Would you not look back and ask why? Well I did and there is no good reason .................. we were all fighting in Africa and else where for Empire, it will be another matter in the eyes of Americans when the bombs start dropping on your families ...........if all of your infrastructures had been bombed. your concentration camps would have been full of starved diseased peoples too.
 
No.


Between 1933 and 1939, Jews in Germany were subjected to arrest, economic boycott, the loss of civil rights and citizenship, incarceration in concentration camps, random violence, and the state-organized Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") pogrom. Jews reacted to Nazi persecution in a number of ways. Forcibly segregated from German society, German Jews turned to and expanded their own institutions and social organizations. However, in the face of increasing repression and physical violence, many Jews fled Germany. More Jews might have left Germany had such countries as the United States and Britain been more willing to admit them.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/emig33.html



On three occasions in September 1938, Chamberlain went to Germany in efforts to prevent the outbreak of a general European war over Hitler’s demand that Czechoslovakia cede the Sudetenland to Germany. By the Munich Agreement of September 30, he and Premier Édouard Daladier of France granted almost all of Hitler’s demands and left Czechoslovakia defenseless. He returned to England a popular hero, speaking of “peace with honour” (echoing an earlier prime minister, Benjamin Disraeli) and “peace for our time.” Nonetheless, he immediately ordered the acceleration of the British rearmament program. When Hitler seized the rest of Czechoslovakia (March 10–16, 1939), Chamberlain definitely repudiated appeasement, and he soon published Anglo-French guarantees of armed support for Poland, Romania, and Greece in the event of similar attacks. The next month, peacetime military conscription was instituted for the first time in British history.


http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/104904/Neville-Chamberlain

The Jewish Virtual Library ? Propaganda

Most Jews were asked to leave Germany .................. those who could not find any one to take them were to be resettled in their own Home Land. Madagasca was Hitlers choice France said No to it, no one wanted Israel to be the home land but Zionists. No one is saying Jews were not badly treated by the Reich ................... that there was no genocide is what we are saying. Illegal to say in Europe 5-15 years in prison for anyone who does and their Lawyers and their Publishers .......loss of pensions and health insurence and even exile from ones own Land................ because there is no proof.

But we are going off topic ............... and into another Holocaust marathon?

War is an abomination
 
The Jewish Virtual Library ? Propaganda

Most Jews were asked to leave Germany .................. those who could not find any one to take them were to be resettled in their own Home Land. Madagasca was Hitlers choice France said No to it, no one wanted Israel to be the home land but Zionists. No one is saying Jews were not badly treated by the Reich ................... that there was no genocide is what we are saying. Illegal to say in Europe 5-15 years in prison for anyone who does and their Lawyers and their Publishers .......loss of pensions and health insurence and even exile from ones own Land................ because there is no proof.

But we are going off topic ............... and into another Holocaust marathon?

War is an abomination


The facts don't jive with what you have alleged. What happened in Germany between 1933 and 1939 is documented history, and you'll not find one reputable historical scholar who would deny this. Perhaps you would prefer this source for "Kristallnacht", or will you dismiss this one as propaganda as well:


http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-night-of-broken-glass


http://library.thinkquest.org/12663/summary/19331939.html
 
The facts don't jive with what you have alleged. What happened in Germany between 1933 and 1939 is documented history, and you'll not find one reputable historical scholar who would deny this. Perhaps you would prefer this source for "Kristallnacht", or will you dismiss this one as propaganda as well:


http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-night-of-broken-glass


http://library.thinkquest.org/12663/summary/19331939.html

Awful .................. I do not denying the episode. But it was not ordered by Hitler .......... there is confusion about crossed messages that night ...........when Hitler heard about it he was horrified and ordered that such terrorisms should cease ........... but then he wouldn't hear any more about it. He was a romantic about his county and countrymen............. a lot like many Americans still are

It was without doubt terrible but it was not, as Hollywood will have it, the norm.
 
Awful .................. I do not denying the episode. But it was not ordered by Hitler .......... there is confusion about crossed messages that night ...........when Hitler heard about it he was horrified and ordered that such terrorisms should cease ........... but then he wouldn't hear any more about it. He was a romantic about his county and countrymen............. a lot like many Americans still are

It was without doubt terrible but it was not, as Hollywood will have it, the norm.


Hitler was horrified by it? You really believe that?


Ever read "Mein Kampf"?

"The Jews were responsible for bringing negroes into the Rhineland with the ultimate idea of bastardising the white race which they hate and thus lowering its cultural and political level so that the Jew might dominate."

"The Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end...spying on the unsuspicious German girl he plans to seduce.....he wants to contaminate her blood and remove her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew hates the white race and wants to lower its cultural level so that the Jews might dominate."

"The longer I lived in Vienna, the stronger became my hatred for the promiscuous swarm of foreign peoples which began to batten on that old nursery ground of German culture." (A reference to East Europeans)

"Only an adequate large space on this earth assures a nation freedom of existence." A reference to Hitler's policy of living space (Lebensraum)

"We must eliminate the disproportion between our population and our area...... Some of this land can be obtained from Russia..... We must secure for the German people the land and soil to which they are entitled."

"(The state) must see to it that only the healthy beget children; that there is only one disgrace: despite one's own sickness and deficiencies, to bring children into the world; and one highest honour : to renounce doing so. And conversely it must be considered reprehensible to withhold healthy children from the nation." This would later develop into Hitler's idea of the Master Race.

"When you tell a lie, tell big lies. This is what the Jews do, working on the principle, which is quite true in itself, that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility......"

"Whoever wishes to win over the masses must know the key that will open the door to their hearts."



Also, Hitler speaking on the topic of "Jews":


http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htm
 
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Bush made war. Obama makes war.

You'll condemn one and give the other a pass.


41158525.jpg

Really -- Which war did Obama start?
 
Point well taken. There will never be peace in that hellhole so may as well GTFO.


Which is something the current administration has, till, this point, not saw fit to do. In fact, he ordered a surge,

It seems only fair then that if we are going to condemn Bush for making war, we should condemn his successor for continuing to make war. To do less would be hypocritical, no?
 
Which is something the current administration has, till, this point, not saw fit to do. In fact, he ordered a surge,

It seems only fair then that if we are going to condemn Bush for making war, we should condemn his successor for continuing to make war. To do less would be hypocritical, no?

I thought my original post condemned all unnecessary war. But it seemed only fair to point out that the biggest "cheerleaders" for getting into Iraq in the first place were Bush chickenhawks.

Obama's Afghanistan surge sucked.. but he does get credit for getting us out of Iraq.
 
You are a lying son of a bitch
You are your pal ZAM ZAM are in total denial. You Righties were 100% supportive of the Bush/Cheney invasion! You thought it was a GREAT invasion/occupation (WAR)!

You were all for it! Anyone who did NOT support it you accused of being a TRAITOR!

The brave 144 DEMOCRATS who did oppose Bush's WAR you said were traitors!
 
Hitler was horrified by it? You really believe that?


Ever read "Mein Kampf"?

"The Jews were responsible for bringing negroes into the Rhineland with the ultimate idea of bastardising the white race which they hate and thus lowering its cultural and political level so that the Jew might dominate."

"The Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end...spying on the unsuspicious German girl he plans to seduce.....he wants to contaminate her blood and remove her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew hates the white race and wants to lower its cultural level so that the Jews might dominate."

"The longer I lived in Vienna, the stronger became my hatred for the promiscuous swarm of foreign peoples which began to batten on that old nursery ground of German culture." (A reference to East Europeans)

"Only an adequate large space on this earth assures a nation freedom of existence." A reference to Hitler's policy of living space (Lebensraum)

"We must eliminate the disproportion between our population and our area...... Some of this land can be obtained from Russia..... We must secure for the German people the land and soil to which they are entitled."

"(The state) must see to it that only the healthy beget children; that there is only one disgrace: despite one's own sickness and deficiencies, to bring children into the world; and one highest honour : to renounce doing so. And conversely it must be considered reprehensible to withhold healthy children from the nation." This would later develop into Hitler's idea of the Master Race.

"When you tell a lie, tell big lies. This is what the Jews do, working on the principle, which is quite true in itself, that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility......"

"Whoever wishes to win over the masses must know the key that will open the door to their hearts."



Also, Hitler speaking on the topic of "Jews":


http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htm


My Struggle was not written by Hitler it came out of the Ministry of Propaganda based on a pamphlet written by a friend of Hitlers from Hitlers dictations but written by many hands.

He did write the 'Second Book' which has come to light recently and has since been published ( second book as opposed to second volume of Mein Kampf )

You have thrown me a list of quotes ...what am I supposed to do with them ? Deal with each in turn or what? Nope, I won't, I am not a donkey.

He did say that the Influence of Jewery must be eradicated from Europe ....he never never never spoke of any intent for any form of Jewish or other genocide but that Jewish Influence must be gone from Europe for Europe to be able to live in Peace and build back its own cultures and stuff like that. He also thought there should be a Jewish home land as the Zionists were asking for..................... Hitler had all sorts of projects on the go to teach Jews how to manage that intended Home Land.....farming and such like.
 
You are your pal ZAM ZAM are in total denial. You Righties were 100% supportive of the Bush/Cheney invasion! You thought it was a GREAT invasion/occupation (WAR)!

You were all for it! Anyone who did NOT support it you accused of being a TRAITOR!

The brave 144 DEMOCRATS who did oppose Bush's WAR you said were traitors!

Does it matter? Is it not more important to stop murdering than pointing the finger of blame?

Why don't you join together to say 'Stop killing in my name' since all of you seem to want that.

Dem and Repub Govs alike are murderers of indigenous peoples for their Land.
 
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