...well, I guess this explains the latest CO shooter's behavior...

[Figjam]

...his father...

" "I'm not the guy who is going to have the answers on this," Mark Pierson told the Denver Post. "Tracy Murphy is the key player."

The paper said Pierson contacted the paper to discuss the school's discipline of his son, though he would not say whether he had threatened Murphy. He said he and his ex-wife, Barbara, had been to several disciplinary hearings this year."

...and somehow this is the fault of the teacher and he had no role in his sons behavior, - r-i-g-h-t...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/16/arapahoe-claire-davis-karl-pierson/4038317/

 

[connieb]

You hit the nail on the head right there, Fig.

 

[Alinvegas]

...his father...

" "I'm not the guy who is going to have the answers on this," Mark Pierson told the Denver Post. "Tracy Murphy is the key player."

The paper said Pierson contacted the paper to discuss the school's discipline of his son, though he would not say whether he had threatened Murphy. He said he and his ex-wife, Barbara, had been to several disciplinary hearings this year."

...and somehow this is the fault of the teacher and he had no role in his sons behavior, - r-i-g-h-t...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/16/arapahoe-claire-davis-karl-pierson/4038317/

Frankly, I can't think of anything a teacher could do to warrant being murdered.

 

[connieb]

There isn't anything short of sexual abuse...which does not seem to be an issue here.

From what I have read - this teacher got him suspended from the debate team. And, somehow he felt like that would stop him from being able to get into the AirForce Academy. Personally - I would have hoped a psych eval would have stopped that but, I digress.

At any rate, he blamed this guy a bunch - and I guess wanted revenge. But, from what his dad sounds like - seems like the apple of no personal responsibiliyt doesn't fall far from the tree. The one who should be blamed when discipline problems result in removal from a group or school is the person with the discipline problem... NOT the person who enforced the rules, but when you have a guy like this parenting - telling the kid its the teacher's fault - you get a very warped sense of responsibility.

connie

 

[Figjam]

Frankly, I can't think of anything a teacher could do to warrant being murdered.

...well, I'm thinking Al, this family has some issues - and blaming their problems on others seems to be one major problem...

 

[Figjam]

There isn't anything short of sexual abuse...which does not seem to be an issue here.

From what I have read - this teacher got him suspended from the debate team. And, somehow he felt like that would stop him from being able to get into the AirForce Academy. Personally - I would have hoped a psych eval would have stopped that but, I digress.

At any rate, he blamed this guy a bunch - and I guess wanted revenge. But, from what his dad sounds like - seems like the apple of no personal responsibiliyt doesn't fall far from the tree. The one who should be blamed when discipline problems result in removal from a group or school is the person with the discipline problem... NOT the person who enforced the rules, but when you have a guy like this parenting - telling the kid its the teacher's fault - you get a very warped sense of responsibility.

connie

...yup - well stated connie...

 

[Marcus Aurelius]

I think Fig and C hit it on the head.

 

[PhilFish]

There isn't anything short of sexual abuse...which does not seem to be an issue here.

From what I have read - this teacher got him suspended from the debate team. And, somehow he felt like that would stop him from being able to get into the AirForce Academy. Personally - I would have hoped a psych eval would have stopped that but, I digress.

At any rate, he blamed this guy a bunch - and I guess wanted revenge. But, from what his dad sounds like - seems like the apple of no personal responsibiliyt doesn't fall far from the tree. The one who should be blamed when discipline problems result in removal from a group or school is the person with the discipline problem... NOT the person who enforced the rules, but when you have a guy like this parenting - telling the kid its the teacher's fault - you get a very warped sense of responsibility.

connie

it's a skewed world view... one that is all too common these days...

by that I mean... the tendency for youth (and others) to blame everyone and everything else for their shortcomings, failings, and inability to take responsibility for ones actions..

this latest shooting is an example in the extreme...

But, I think this is something that is prevalent in society more and more.. (and tragically..where coupled with some mental infirmity leads to tragedy)

For instance...

Ever hear someone at work lament a bad medical visit (high blood pressure, or cholesterol..) say..."they didnt tell me that eating fatty foods was bad". or "my doctor didnt catch..so n so..it's their fault." .. My kids got an ear infection...they made me get medicine..and so on and so forth..

Reaching, forever reaching for some culprit...

This kid..apparently sucked at debate, or whatever... and went off the deep. His parents, rather than discuss the merits and shortcomings...perhaps fostered resentment..rather than face the issues...

 

[Figjam]

it's a skewed world view... one that is all too common these days...

by that I mean... the tendency for youth (and others) to blame everyone and everything else for their shortcomings, failings, and inability to take responsibility for ones actions..

this latest shooting is an example in the extreme...

But, I think this is something that is prevalent in society more and more.. (and tragically..where coupled with some mental infirmity leads to tragedy)

For instance...

Ever hear someone at work lament a bad medical visit (high blood pressure, or cholesterol..) say..."they didnt tell me that eating fatty foods was bad". or "my doctor didnt catch..so n so..it's their fault." .. My kids got an ear infection...they made me get medicine..and so on and so forth..

Reaching, forever reaching for some culprit...

This kid..apparently sucked at debate, or whatever... and went off the deep. His parents, rather than discuss the merits and shortcomings...perhaps fostered resentment..rather than face the issues...

...yes pf, you nailed it - the era of self-responsibility seems to have been supplanted by, "it's someone else's fault" and as a result they then act-out against an individual or group...

...I do think this mindset will change back at some point...

 

[JuliefromOhio]

I suppose this means that dad isn't going to talk about how his 18 y.o. son got guns and where he prepared his Molotov cocktails.

 

[Figjam]

I suppose this means that dad isn't going to talk about how his 18 y.o. son got guns and where he prepared his Molotov cocktails.

...well that and according to the dad, it's the fault of the teacher not his or his ex-wife - so maybe they need to ask the teacher?

 

[PhilFish]

...yes pf, you nailed it - the era of self-responsibility seems to have been supplanted by, "it's someone else's fault" and as a result they then act-out against an individual or group...

...I do think this mindset will change back at some point...

i think it will get worse before it starts to trend toward better...

 

[connieb]

...yes pf, you nailed it - the era of self-responsibility seems to have been supplanted by, "it's someone else's fault" and as a result they then act-out against an individual or group...

...I do think this mindset will change back at some point...

We have promoted a culture of victimization here in this country. You see it in the media, in politics, its everywhere. Someone else is always responsible. And, when someone comments somehting like - well that guy shouldn't have been in that dark alley by himself - you are charged with blaming the victim.

Well, yes, in some way you are. But, does the "victim" not have some responsibility with who he hangs with and where he is and the risks he is willing to take with his own person? There are some crimes - like the poor young woman in this case - where one is simply completely minding their own business and becomes someone's victim. There are plenty others where the victim contributes to their situation - yet it is verbotten to talk about that.

 

[as seen on tv]

There isn't anything short of sexual abuse...which does not seem to be an issue here.

From what I have read - this teacher got him suspended from the debate team. And, somehow he felt like that would stop him from being able to get into the AirForce Academy. Personally - I would have hoped a psych eval would have stopped that but, I digress.


At any rate, he blamed this guy a bunch - and I guess wanted revenge. But, from what his dad sounds like - seems like the apple of no personal responsibiliyt doesn't fall far from the tree. The one who should be blamed when discipline problems result in removal from a group or school is the person with the discipline problem... NOT the person who enforced the rules, but when you have a guy like this parenting - telling the kid its the teacher's fault - you get a very warped sense of responsibility.

connie

Pierson was "on record" with death threats against his debate advisor. how a kid like this can be allowed to attend school rather than being remanded for psychiatric treatment is beyond me.

 

[as seen on tv]

I suppose this means that dad isn't going to talk about how his 18 y.o. son got guns and where he prepared his Molotov cocktails.

pierson purchased the gun legally - he's over 18. he made the molotov cocktails at his mom's house

 

[connieb]

pierson purchased the gun legally - he's over 18. he made the molotov cocktails at his mom's house

Is there a background check? Where charges ever pressed ? I am just wondering if actual charges were prssed and there was a background check - if he could have bought the gun.

 

[trapdoor]

Is there a background check? Where charges ever pressed ? I am just wondering if actual charges were prssed and there was a background check - if he could have bought the gun.

If he bought it in a gun store, he underwent a background check. If he wasn't a convicted felon or a non-convicted person accused by a cohabitant of domestic violence, he wouldn't have been denied the ability to buy a firearm.

 

[connieb]

If he bought it in a gun store, he underwent a background check. If he wasn't a convicted felon or a non-convicted person accused by a cohabitant of domestic violence, he wouldn't have been denied the ability to buy a firearm.

Well, personally, I do think there is somewhat of a gaping hole if you can be charged with making death threats - and then buy a gun in the interim because you are not yet convicted. I don't know for sure this kid was charged, but one would think that a background check while the charges were pending - would exclude a person. Once the case is officially closed - then I would say it was clear - but it seems to me that is a reasonable limit.

 

[trapdoor]

Well, personally, I do think there is somewhat of a gaping hole if you can be charged with making death threats - and then buy a gun in the interim because you are not yet convicted. I don't know for sure this kid was charged, but one would think that a background check while the charges were pending - would exclude a person. Once the case is officially closed - then I would say it was clear - but it seems to me that is a reasonable limit.

OK, but you're saying you're guilty until proven innocent.

 

[connieb]

OK, but you're saying you're guilty until proven innocent.

Well, temporarily, yes. I would totally support completely expunging that from the record if proven not guilty and not allowing that to bar a person from buying a gun in the future.