What Do We Know?

[wobblies]

The only thing that everyone seems to agree about is that someone is using chemical weapons in Syria. Israelis claim to have overheard Syrian government military discussing the use of the weapons before the August attack. We seem to know the general area from where the missiles carrying the chemical weapon were launched. Russia went in after the attack and conducted an investigation. The UN has sent in inspectors as well. The US tells us that sarin gas was used and that insurgents do not have the ability to fire the missiles used to inflict the gas. We also know that some are saying that this was a false flag operation intended to draw the West into a regional conflict. Why, in hell’s name, aren’t they working together to determine who is doing this?
The real question is what the international community is going to do about the use of these banned weapons. The White House insists that we have to do something about this horrible act but is so far getting very little support for its action. Why isn’t the international community demanding that Israel, Russia, the US, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other nations come forward with all of their documentation about what happened and find out who did this? Why isn’t the international community demanding that everything necessary be done to find the criminals who did this and bring them to justice?
The Administration may have all of the proof that they need, but it isn’t enough to convince a large segment of the world. The President needs to stand down and get its act together. The Administration must win over the world to a unified course of action.
These remarks are not intended to undermine the White House. They should be applauded for standing up and demanding action. This is not, however, a time to go it alone.
Russia needs to decide what is in their and the region’s best interests also. They are sitting on their hands and criticizing us for wanting to do something but not offering to constructively help figure out a common strategy. Iran needs to decide if they want to stand by and let chemical weapons be used on innocents; they know as much as any nation how horrific these weapons are. Saudi Arabia and Israel also need suck it up and help investigate what happened.

God Speed,
David

 

[wobblies]

I want to update this thread with information on the UN report. Since the thread was started, the US and Russia have agreed to many things and the UN report seems to point to the Syrian government as the source of the August 21 attack. The outstanding issue seems to be the individual or group that made the decision and carried out the attack. Russia has not acknowledged that the government is the culprit, so we still have a way to go on unifying an international position. Richard Butler, David Kay, and the UN Secretary seem to believe that it is the government.

Below is a pretty good analysis of the report and a link to the UN report. I'll try to document other confirmed info as time permits.

http://armscontrolnow.org/

http://www.un.org/disarmament/content/slideshow/Secretary_General_Report_of_CW_Investigation.pdf

God Speed,
David

 

[fairsheet]

I want to update this thread with information on the UN report. Since the thread was started, the US and Russia have agreed to many things and the UN report seems to point to the Syrian government as the source of the August 21 attack. The outstanding issue seems to be the individual or group that made the decision and carried out the attack. Russia has not acknowledged that the government is the culprit, so we still have a way to go on unifying an international position. Richard Butler, David Kay, and the UN Secretary seem to believe that it is the government.

Below is a pretty good analysis of the report and a link to the UN report. I'll try to document other confirmed info as time permits.

http://armscontrolnow.org/

http://www.un.org/disarmament/content/slideshow/Secretary_General_Report_of_CW_Investigation.pdf

God Speed,
David

A couple things....

If Assad's ostensibly vast chemical weapons stockpile is brought uner international control and destroyed, what difference does it make if he use them or someone else did? Either way, they're brought under international control and destroyed.

Some seem concerned that Putin may be pulling some sort of a fast one, and intends to help wriggle Assad off this hook. I'm more inclined to the opposite view. I'm guessing that Putin wants and needs to prove to the world, that Russia can make Syria do its bidding.

 

[wobblies]

A couple things....

If Assad's ostensibly vast chemical weapons stockpile is brought uner international control and destroyed, what difference does it make if he use them or someone else did? Either way, they're brought under international control and destroyed.

There are three basic reasons why it is important. The first is that it is important to prosecute the right people for this; I'm hoping that the culprits will be taken to the ICC. The second is that it is possible that the al Assad is opposed to using chemical weapons, so those people should not be alienated. Most of them would be secular. The third reason is that identifying the brother as the culprit for the decision has the potential of creating a split within their supporters even if they remain close.

Religious extremists were able to take over the governments of Iran and Afghanistan after years of secular control. In both instances, the shift was enabled by Western interference.

I hope that all is well with you and yours

God Speed,
David
Some seem concerned that Putin may be pulling some sort of a fast one, and intends to help wriggle Assad off this hook. I'm more inclined to the opposite view. I'm guessing that Putin wants and needs to prove to the world, that Russia can make Syria do its bidding.

 

[fairsheet]

Why is it more important to prosecute someone, than to get rid of the stuff altogether? In any case, IF Assad is forced to give this stuff up..which it appears may happen, wouldn't it make more sense for him to offer up evidence that somone else used them AND that's he's just being a great and wonderous leader, by giving htem up?

 

[LanceFreeman]

You cannot depend on U.N. Reports. U.N. Reports have been skewed before to reflect the views of the U.S. and Britain (and Israel), and to justify war. U.N. agencies have proven to be nothing more than a tool of western governments, as the attached article by Madison Rupert shows:

Click here: U.S. intelligence agencies agree: no evidence of Iranian nuclear weapons program | End the Lie – Independent News

 

[wobblies]

Why is it more important to prosecute someone, than to get rid of the stuff altogether? In any case, IF Assad is forced to give this stuff up..which it appears may happen, wouldn't it make more sense for him to offer up evidence that somone else used them AND that's he's just being a great and wonderous leader, by giving htem up?

fair~

I'm unclear about the point you are trying to make. I hope all is well with you; you seem grumpy lately.

God Speed,
David

 

[fairsheet]

fair~

I'm unclear about the point you are trying to make. I hope all is well with you; you seem grumpy lately.

God Speed,
David

David,

Please don't see it as "grumpy". Take it as a compliment that I find your ideas worthy of discussion. And hey...what good is anyone who agrees with us on everything?

 

[wobblies]

David,

Please don't see it as "grumpy". Take it as a compliment that I find your ideas worthy of discussion. And hey...what good is anyone who agrees with us on everything?

I will take it that way. I would still like some clarification about what you posted earlier.

God Speed,
David

 

[fairsheet]

I will take it that way. I would still like some clarification about what you posted earlier.

God Speed,
David

I imagine this is one of those "perspective" things, that I probably couldn't impart to you no matter what. To me, the relevent and proximate "crime" is that these chemical weapons are reputed to EXIST in Syria. Who actually used them, is secondary. In my opinion, Assad idn't "owed" some sort of trial at which all the evidence is presented, parsed, and debated beyond all reasonable doubt, before we should take advantage of his offer to cough them up.

If my neighbor has a coupla rabid pitbulls in his back yard and the neighbor kid lets one out and it subsequently bites someone, my first concern is the rabid pitbulls. Who actually let them out, is secondary.

 

[wobblies]

I imagine this is one of those "perspective" things, that I probably couldn't impart to you no matter what. To me, the relevent and proximate "crime" is that these chemical weapons are reputed to EXIST in Syria. Who actually used them, is secondary. In my opinion, Assad idn't "owed" some sort of trial at which all the evidence is presented, parsed, and debated beyond all reasonable doubt, before we should take advantage of his offer to cough them up.

If my neighbor has a coupla rabid pitbulls in his back yard and the neighbor kid lets one out and it subsequently bites someone, my first concern is the rabid pitbulls. Who actually let them out, is secondary.

Thank you; I understand better now. I agree with your basic point. The government is obviously responsible for whatever is done in its name. The best way to resolve any dispute on the matter would be for the government to prosecute anyone who used the weapons without authorization, but I think we would agree that it is not likely to happen.