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What does Flynn Know?

Arkady

President
When Trump tried to obstruct justice in order to protect Flynn, by pressuring the head of the FBI to end that investigation and then firing him when he wouldn't, it raised an obvious question: what was he afraid of? Why commit a clear impeachable offense to protect a guy he'd fired for lying to the VP about critical matters pertaining to national security? Trump didn't owe Flynn anything, and he's not exactly the kind of guy known for going out of his way for others. The most likely explanation seemed to be that Flynn knew where the bodies were buried, and Trump didn't want him in a position where he could be tempted to plea-bargain by handing over more evidence of the Trump team's collusion with Vladimir Putin.

Well, that speculation looks like it might be on the mark, if an ABC news story is right. They're reporting that Flynn is prepared to testify that he contacted Russia on the direct instructions of Trump.
 
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When Trump tried to obstruct justice in order to protect Flynn, by pressuring the AG to end that investigation and then firing him when he wouldn't, it raised an obvious question: what was he afraid of? Why commit a clear impeachable offense to protect a guy he'd fired for lying to the VP about critical matters pertaining to national security? Trump didn't owe Flynn anything, and he's not exactly the kind of guy known for going out of his way for others. The most likely explanation seemed to be that Flynn knew where the bodies were buried, and Trump didn't want him in a position where he could be tempted to plea-bargain by handing over more evidence of the Trump team's collusion with Vladimir Putin.

Well, that speculation looks like it might be on the mark, if an ABC news story is right. They're reporting that Flynn is prepared to testify that he contacted Russia on the direct instructions of Trump.
What Impeachable offense? Your swinging on rainbows my friend.
 
When Trump tried to obstruct justice in order to protect Flynn, by pressuring the AG to end that investigation and then firing him when he wouldn't, it raised an obvious question: what was he afraid of? Why commit a clear impeachable offense to protect a guy he'd fired for lying to the VP about critical matters pertaining to national security? Trump didn't owe Flynn anything, and he's not exactly the kind of guy known for going out of his way for others. The most likely explanation seemed to be that Flynn knew where the bodies were buried, and Trump didn't want him in a position where he could be tempted to plea-bargain by handing over more evidence of the Trump team's collusion with Vladimir Putin.

Well, that speculation looks like it might be on the mark, if an ABC news story is right. They're reporting that Flynn is prepared to testify that he contacted Russia on the direct instructions of Trump.

Hopefully Trump gets impeached from this and we get a new president.

But while I know he can get impeached for lying and lying under oath, I still am confused, are you saying a presidential candidates and their staffs can't talk to Russians? Is there a set of campaign rules.

And yes I really do want Trump gone.
 
Hopefully Trump gets impeached from this and we get a new president.

But while I know he can get impeached for lying and lying under oath, I still am confused, are you saying a presidential candidates and their staffs can't talk to Russians?

No. The impeachable offense is the obstruction of justice. He improperly pressured the AG to protect a crony (and, I think, to head off the investigation before it got to him or his family), which compromises the independence of the Justice Department.

I don't think there's an absolute rule that candidates and their staffs can't talk to the Russians. But there are rules against campaigns conspiring to get anything of value from foreign governments. The Trump campaign clearly conspired to get valuable information from the Russian government -- smear material that they could use against their opponent. We can argue about whether or not that's the kind of thing of value that the law was meant to prevent them from getting. That's a defense they're welcome to offer at trial -- that the law is being misapplied. But Trump's actions constitute obstruction of justice whether he's innocent or guilty. And that's not even to get into whether there was more clearly illegal collusion that has yet to be revealed (e.g., the Trump team telling the Russians which kind of hacking to do to help them, or coordinating with the Russians to get helpful Wikileaks at key moments during the campaign when distractions were needed).
 
When Trump tried to obstruct justice in order to protect Flynn, by pressuring the AG to end that investigation and then firing him when he wouldn't, it raised an obvious question: what was he afraid of? Why commit a clear impeachable offense to protect a guy he'd fired for lying to the VP about critical matters pertaining to national security? Trump didn't owe Flynn anything, and he's not exactly the kind of guy known for going out of his way for others. The most likely explanation seemed to be that Flynn knew where the bodies were buried, and Trump didn't want him in a position where he could be tempted to plea-bargain by handing over more evidence of the Trump team's collusion with Vladimir Putin.

Well, that speculation looks like it might be on the mark, if an ABC news story is right. They're reporting that Flynn is prepared to testify that he contacted Russia on the direct instructions of Trump.

He knows what I have been saying all along.

That Trump is a god damn traitor.
 
the official Washington rumor mill is ahead of you, and much more specific:

Flynn has agreed to testify that he had undisclosed contacts with Russian officials, at the request of candidate Trump.

whether that is enough to hand a "collusion" indictment on seems tenuous.
 
the official Washington rumor mill is ahead of you, and much more specific:

Flynn has agreed to testify that he had undisclosed contacts with Russian officials, at the request of candidate Trump.

whether that is enough to hand a "collusion" indictment on seems tenuous.

You think this is the end of it for Trump ? Because it looks more like the beginning for him personally.
 
No. The impeachable offense is the obstruction of justice. He improperly pressured the AG to protect a crony (and, I think, to head off the investigation before it got to him or his family), which compromises the independence of the Justice Department.

I don't think there's an absolute rule that candidates and their staffs can't talk to the Russians. But there are rules against campaigns conspiring to get anything of value from foreign governments. The Trump campaign clearly conspired to get valuable information from the Russian government -- smear material that they could use against their opponent. We can argue about whether or not that's the kind of thing of value that the law was meant to prevent them from getting. That's a defense they're welcome to offer at trial -- that the law is being misapplied. But Trump's actions constitute obstruction of justice whether he's innocent or guilty. And that's not even to get into whether there was more clearly illegal collusion that has yet to be revealed (e.g., the Trump team telling the Russians which kind of hacking to do to help them, or coordinating with the Russians to get helpful Wikileaks at key moments during the campaign when distractions were needed).

We had a government worker delete thousands of emails and use cleaning software on their computer and Trumps going down because someone in his cabinet spoke to a russian to get "dirt" on their campaign opponents?

Seems like a nothing burger unfortunately. Was hoping you had a taped phone call or email or tweet or something.
 
We had a government worker delete thousands of emails and use cleaning software on their computer and Trumps going down because someone in his cabinet spoke to a russian to get "dirt" on their campaign opponents?

Seems like a nothing burger unfortunately. Was hoping you had a taped phone call or email or tweet or something.

I was told all of this was crazy talk a year ago by every poster on the right here. If you think this is where this tale ends. You are sadly mistaken. They've penetrated the inner circle of this nest of traitors. Expect what I have been constantly posting to be revealed in a way that will end these kinds of denials.

We were attacked by a foreign power and these people aided that foreign power in their attack on this nation in order to gain control over it.

This was treason.
 
We had a government worker delete thousands of emails and use cleaning software on their computer

No doubt we've had thousands of government workers do just that. So what? It's perfectly legal to delete personal emails, and also legal to use software to make sure crooks don't recover data from those deleted sectors. You act as if there was some wrongdoing there. There's a reason that even the Republican head of the FBI, despite a desperate desire to take Clinton down for his party, grudgingly had to admit there was no way to support an indictment.

and Trumps going down because someone in his cabinet spoke to a russian to get "dirt" on their campaign opponents?

Again, the impeachable offense here is obstruction of justice. You seem to be having trouble grasping that, so picture it in a scenario where your prejudices go the opposite way.

Say this is early 2016 and the FBI hasn't yet confirmed that Clinton committed no crime with regard to her email. Obama, however, doesn't like the political cost of even having that question investigated. So, after holding a meeting where Comey was one of several attendees, Obama has everyone else leave the room, then, once he has Comey isolated, he pressures him to abandon the email investigation. Comey's so rattled by it that he later writes a memo to the file memorializing that bizarre interference by the president in an ongoing investigation. Then, a little while later, when Obama realizes Comey's not going to take the message, he summarily fires him. The White House goes into damage control mode, with various Obama staffers scrambling desperately for some excuse for the Comey firing --something, anything, other than it being an attempt to obstruct the email investigation. They settle on something -- citing a memo from an assistant AG on some unrelated topic. But then Obama comes right out and admits that he'd already decided to fire Comey before that memo was authored, and that it was because of Comey's investigation of the email. Shortly thereafter, he's caught telling someone that he thinks the pressure has come off now that he fired the head of the FBI.

If it had played out like that --basically, the exact way it played out, only with the parties reversed-- there isn't a single right-winger or self-described centrist who wouldn't be calling that a clear case of obstruction of justice. They'd have nothing but contempt for the kind of apologist who'd call such a clear case of grave misconduct a "nothing burger."

It remains to be seen what conduct, exactly, was so terrible that Trump was willing to commit clear obstruction of justice in order to try to keep it from coming out. Now that Flynn is apparently cooperating with investigators, we may find out. But it doesn't really matter from a legal perspective -- Trump already committed an impeachable offense when he obstructed justice. The exact nature of the crime he was trying to cover up doesn't matter in terms of whether he should be impeached. The answer to that was "yes" at least as far back as the Comey firing, and arguably as far back as when he pressured Comey to drop the investigation. At this point, all we're doing is deciding how much longer the list of impeachable offenses will get.
 
When Trump tried to obstruct justice in order to protect Flynn, by pressuring the AG to end that investigation and then firing him when he wouldn't, it raised an obvious question: what was he afraid of? Why commit a clear impeachable offense to protect a guy he'd fired for lying to the VP about critical matters pertaining to national security? Trump didn't owe Flynn anything, and he's not exactly the kind of guy known for going out of his way for others. The most likely explanation seemed to be that Flynn knew where the bodies were buried, and Trump didn't want him in a position where he could be tempted to plea-bargain by handing over more evidence of the Trump team's collusion with Vladimir Putin.

Well, that speculation looks like it might be on the mark, if an ABC news story is right. They're reporting that Flynn is prepared to testify that he contacted Russia on the direct instructions of Trump.

.....pressuring the AG to end that investigation and then firing him when he wouldn't...​

In the bottle a little early this Friday?

Flynn is prepared to testify that he contacted Russia on the direct instructions of Trump.
​
Before or after the election?
 
Obstruction of justice, obviously. That was pretty clear from what I wrote. A little tip here: reread before replying and you won't humiliate yourself this way as often.


.......was pretty clear from what I wrote....lol....that'll be the day

Don't get snockered at a Friday lunch and you won't either. AG
 
Obstruction of justice, obviously. That was pretty clear from what I wrote. A little tip here: reread before replying and you won't humiliate yourself this way as often.

So we can expect an obstruction of justice charge for sure. After all, you wouldn't want to humiliate yourself with a bogus prediction, correct?
 
"WASHINGTON — President Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, pleaded guilty on Friday to lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with the Russian ambassador last December, becoming the first senior White House official to pledge cooperation in the special counsel’s wide-ranging inquiry of election meddling.

"Mr. Flynn’s pre-inauguration discussions with Sergey I. Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, were part of a coordinated effort by aides running Mr. Trump’s transition into the White House to create foreign policy before they were in power, documents released as part of Mr. Flynn’s plea agreement show.

"Their efforts undermined the existing policy of President Barack Obama and flouted a warning from a senior Obama administration official to stop meddling in foreign affairs until after the inauguration."

Big deal or Not?

What about this next paragraph?

"Court documents do not disclose what Mr. Trump knew about Mr. Flynn’s discussions. But in at least one instance, federal prosecutors say, Mr. Flynn was directed by a 'very senior member' of the presidential transition team.

"Mr. Trump’s lawyers believe that unnamed aide was Mr. Trump’s son-in-law and close adviser, Jared Kushner, according to a lawyer briefed on the matter."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/01/us/politics/michael-flynn-guilty-russia-investigation.html
 
When Trump tried to obstruct justice in order to protect Flynn, by pressuring the AG to end that investigation and then firing him when he wouldn't, it raised an obvious question: what was he afraid of? Why commit a clear impeachable offense to protect a guy he'd fired for lying to the VP about critical matters pertaining to national security? Trump didn't owe Flynn anything, and he's not exactly the kind of guy known for going out of his way for others. The most likely explanation seemed to be that Flynn knew where the bodies were buried, and Trump didn't want him in a position where he could be tempted to plea-bargain by handing over more evidence of the Trump team's collusion with Vladimir Putin.

Well, that speculation looks like it might be on the mark, if an ABC news story is right. They're reporting that Flynn is prepared to testify that he contacted Russia on the direct instructions of Trump.
Can't wait for the real investigation to start into Hillarys cover ups
 
So we can expect an obstruction of justice charge for sure

Definitely not. The most likely scenario is that Mueller will lay out all the elements of obstruction of justice in his report, and then leave it to Congress to act on it. Then Congress, being run by ethics-free Republican hacks, will let it slide.
 
Can't wait for the real investigation to start into Hillarys cover ups
Hillary Clinton has been investigated pretty much non-stop for about 25 years now. For all that time, the sad-sack right-wingers were clinging to the hope that maybe, someday, she'd slip up and do something illegal that they could hold against her. Yet, year after year, they were disappointed. Still, hope springs eternal. They keep their fingers crossed that someday she'll slip up.
 
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