New Posts
  • Hi there guest! Welcome to PoliticalJack.com. Register for free to join our community?

Where do you differ from your party?

Arkady

President
Sometimes I get the feeling, on this board, that if some novel political issue arose, most of the posters wouldn't know what to think of it until their favorite partisan websites had told them. They'd be at a loss without partisan marching orders, because all they do is parrot talking points provided by the party. That appears to be especially true among the conservatives, who present lock-step opposition to each and every Democratic position. I almost always know what a conservative poster is going to say, before clicking on his comment, simply based on him being a conservative poster. He may present his position more or less eloquently, with more or less nuance and backing evidence, but ultimately I know he'll be more aligned with the GOP than the Democrats, regardless of subject.

So, I'm curious whether my impression is accurate, or if people here really do find themselves agreeing with some regularity with the party they more often oppose.

I'll start. I'm a registered independent, and always have been, but I definitely vote far more often for Democrats. So, I'll highlight the issues on which I find myself a bit closer to the standard Republican position, rather than my more typical alignment closer to the Democrats.

(1) Free trade. I'm definitely not a "no-strings-attached" free-trade evangelist, but I think that generally speaking it's a good idea to lower tariffs and other barriers to trade, despite the labor-market pains that inevitably causes. So, I frequently find myself roughly aligned with Republicans in defending NAFTA and the WTO. I'd handle free trade differently than most Republicans (e.g., putting more conditions on it, to gradually bring the third world up to our standards), but my overall outlook is closer to theirs than to a non-DLC Democrat's outlook.

(2) Unions. I think unions were a spectacularly good thing for America in their time, but I question how much of a positive role they can have going forward. I think that automation, free trade, and just the fluidity of the modern economy make it very hard to shore up improved working conditions through collective bargaining. I turn a different direction, from there, than the Republicans, though, in that I see that as a reason to use the political process to regulate working conditions better, to force the sharing of more of the advantages of productivity gains with the workers. But, like the Republicans, I wouldn't be spending political capital to try to recreate the union successes of prior eras. I wouldn't actively target unions, but I wouldn't waste much breath supporting them, either.

(3) Standardized testing. I'm not terribly zealous on this issue, but overall I find myself more often siding with Republicans than Democrats when it comes to using standardized testing to grade schools, teachers, and students. I think context is important (a teacher with a crop of poor students should get more credit for middling test scores than a teacher with a crop of excellent students does for good test scores), but I'm not at all hostile to standardized testing as a tool, and I don't care that people will "teach to the test." For me, that's an argument for writing really good tests, not an argument for avoiding them.

(4) Nuclear power. I think nuclear power is the only realistic medium-term energy solution that: a) contributes minimally to climate change, and b) can be done on a massive scale without raising energy prices to the point of economic catastrophe. I definitely share more in common with Republicans on that.

(5) Identity politics. I think in terms of individuals, mostly. When I think in terms of groups, it's usually in terms of economic class, not race, religion, ethnicity, or gender. I oppose race-based affirmative action, and I'm strongly skeptical about most efforts at "promoting diversity" and "multicultural education." I believe that if you address poverty directly, you'll do far more to help underprivileged minorities than if you try to address racism, instead (which often just results in benefiting privileged minorities, who become a form of window dressing to cover up the problem). The Democratic Party plays a lot of identity politics games, so I'm probably a bit closer to the Republicans on this.

If I'd put together a similar list fifteen or twenty years ago, I might also include an item about my support for high intellectual standards. I value formal education and serious academic achievement, and put great stock in many of the traditional topics -- the Western literary canon, ancient History, high European culture, etc. I'm a prickly grammarian who cringes at "textspeak," and I'm more than a bit reactionary when it comes to my appraisal of trash TV and the movies of Michael Bay. It's not unusual for me to get caught bemoaning the ignorance of "kids these days." Not all that long ago, that worldview also would have aligned me more with the fusty old conservatives of the Harold Bloom/William F. Buckley variety, as opposed to the cultural relativists, deconstructionists, populists, and radical egalitarians of the hippie left. But, these days, anti-intellectualism has overwhelmed the American right, so I'm more aligned with the Democrats on intellectual matters, despite my traditionalist bent.

Similarly, if I'd put this list together fifteen years ago, I would have listed my preference for market-based solutions, such as cap-and-trade greenhouse gas credits (as opposed to liberal CAFE standards and direct subsidies) and for market-driven healthcare reform (as opposed to UK-style government-provided healthcare). But, again, the GOP has gone from conservative to radical on those issues, so these days I'm closer to the Democrats than the Republicans, despite my positions not having changed.

Finally, please understand that there are a lot of issues where, although I differ with the Democrats, I align to their left, not their right. For example, I oppose Obama's decision not to prosecute Bush-administration criminality (e.g., warrantless wiretapping). But, obviously, opposing the Democrats doesn't always mean finding myself aligned with the Republicans, so those things didn't make my list.

So, how about you? On which issues do you differ from the party with which you more commonly align? On which policy questions do you find yourself aligned with those you more often fight?
 
No, it is just that everyone else on this board is pretty much a partisan hack, so have nothing to add to your posr:)
 
I am not registered with any party. I have strong libertarian leanings but differ in things like public education. Generally however I end up voting against someone rather than for someone.
 
Sometimes I get the feeling, on this board, that if some novel political issue arose, most of the posters wouldn't know what to think of it until their favorite partisan websites had told them. They'd be at a loss without partisan marching orders, because all they do is parrot talking points provided by the party. That appears to be especially true among the conservatives, who present lock-step opposition to each and every Democratic position. I almost always know what a conservative poster is going to say, before clicking on his comment, simply based on him being a conservative poster. He may present his position more or less eloquently, with more or less nuance and backing evidence, but ultimately I know he'll be more aligned with the GOP than the Democrats, regardless of subject.

So, I'm curious whether my impression is accurate, or if people here really do find themselves agreeing with some regularity with the party they more often oppose.

I'll start. I'm a registered independent, and always have been, but I definitely vote far more often for Democrats. So, I'll highlight the issues on which I find myself a bit closer to the standard Republican position, rather than my more typical alignment closer to the Democrats.

(1) Free trade. I'm definitely not a "no-strings-attached" free-trade evangelist, but I think that generally speaking it's a good idea to lower tariffs and other barriers to trade, despite the labor-market pains that inevitably causes. So, I frequently find myself roughly aligned with Republicans in defending NAFTA and the WTO. I'd handle free trade differently than most Republicans (e.g., putting more conditions on it, to gradually bring the third world up to our standards), but my overall outlook is closer to theirs than to a non-DLC Democrat's outlook.

(2) Unions. I think unions were a spectacularly good thing for America in their time, but I question how much of a positive role they can have going forward. I think that automation, free trade, and just the fluidity of the modern economy make it very hard to shore up improved working conditions through collective bargaining. I turn a different direction, from there, than the Republicans, though, in that I see that as a reason to use the political process to regulate working conditions better, to force the sharing of more of the advantages of productivity gains with the workers. But, like the Republicans, I wouldn't be spending political capital to try to recreate the union successes of prior eras. I wouldn't actively target unions, but I wouldn't waste much breath supporting them, either.

(3) Standardized testing. I'm not terribly zealous on this issue, but overall I find myself more often siding with Republicans than Democrats when it comes to using standardized testing to grade schools, teachers, and students. I think context is important (a teacher with a crop of poor students should get more credit for middling test scores than a teacher with a crop of excellent students does for good test scores), but I'm not at all hostile to standardized testing as a tool, and I don't care that people will "teach to the test." For me, that's an argument for writing really good tests, not an argument for avoiding them.

(4) Nuclear power. I think nuclear power is the only realistic medium-term energy solution that: a) contributes minimally to climate change, and b) can be done on a massive scale without raising energy prices to the point of economic catastrophe. I definitely share more in common with Republicans on that.

(5) Identity politics. I think in terms of individuals, mostly. When I think in terms of groups, it's usually in terms of economic class, not race, religion, ethnicity, or gender. I oppose race-based affirmative action, and I'm strongly skeptical about most efforts at "promoting diversity" and "multicultural education." I believe that if you address poverty directly, you'll do far more to help underprivileged minorities than if you try to address racism, instead (which often just results in benefiting privileged minorities, who become a form of window dressing to cover up the problem). The Democratic Party plays a lot of identity politics games, so I'm probably a bit closer to the Republicans on this.

If I'd put together a similar list fifteen or twenty years ago, I might also include an item about my support for high intellectual standards. I value formal education and serious academic achievement, and put great stock in many of the traditional topics -- the Western literary canon, ancient History, high European culture, etc. I'm a prickly grammarian who cringes at "textspeak," and I'm more than a bit reactionary when it comes to my appraisal of trash TV and the movies of Michael Bay. It's not unusual for me to get caught bemoaning the ignorance of "kids these days." Not all that long ago, that worldview also would have aligned me more with the fusty old conservatives of the Harold Bloom/William F. Buckley variety, as opposed to the cultural relativists, deconstructionists, populists, and radical egalitarians of the hippie left. But, these days, anti-intellectualism has overwhelmed the American right, so I'm more aligned with the Democrats on intellectual matters, despite my traditionalist bent.

Similarly, if I'd put this list together fifteen years ago, I would have listed my preference for market-based solutions, such as cap-and-trade greenhouse gas credits (as opposed to liberal CAFE standards and direct subsidies) and for market-driven healthcare reform (as opposed to UK-style government-provided healthcare). But, again, the GOP has gone from conservative to radical on those issues, so these days I'm closer to the Democrats than the Republicans, despite my positions not having changed.

Finally, please understand that there are a lot of issues where, although I differ with the Democrats, I align to their left, not their right. For example, I oppose Obama's decision not to prosecute Bush-administration criminality (e.g., warrantless wiretapping). But, obviously, opposing the Democrats doesn't always mean finding myself aligned with the Republicans, so those things didn't make my list.

So, how about you? On which issues do you differ from the party with which you more commonly align? On which policy questions do you find yourself aligned with those you more often fight?

I am down the middle on most issues except state rights versus Federal rights over states...

I believe a state should regulate and tax accordin' to their population, and give government programs based on their population needs...
 
No, it is just that everyone else on this board is pretty much a partisan hack, so have nothing to add to your posr:)

I don't consider myself a partisan hack, although I will say that it's been at least a decade and half, since virtually any of the Republican Party's traditional "conservative" themes have been anything more than wedgie lip service. Therefore, even as I am generally aligned with many of the themes suggested in the top post, I find the Democratic Party to be the more real practitioner of them all, than is the Fox/GOP.

On a side ramble, I hear Jeff Greenfield has a new book out called, "Then Everything Changed", that theorizes how things would be different today, had Sirhan NOT killed RFK. I've not read it yet, but I listened to an interview in which he suggested that RFK would NOT have governed as the sort of "unreconstructed liberal" many might now assume. In fact Greenfield seems to suggest that he would've actually forwarded a perspective that I remember as progressive Republicanism. And rather just pass bad gas about "teaching a man to fish", the way the Fox/GOP does now, he would've actually done it!

(Leaving Greenfield out of this from here on out)...that got me to pondering. Some might suggest that SINCE Nixon was a Republican - and not an especially right-koo-ky one, how much difference could it have made if RFK governed from a slightly Republican perspective? And, I think I have an answer...

Post Nixon, people have debated the question as to whether or not Nixon was an ACTUAL "liberal". I think the weight of that debate, now tends to fall on the side of - he wasn't, but he was desperate to outflank the liberal Democrats. And if THAT's the case, it may well be that Nixon actually double-down on and amplified the Democratic/liberal's weaknesses, while poking a stick in the eye of the Taft wing of the GOP, and marginalizing progressive Republicanism.

Had RFK been elected, he would've drawn on the Democratic/liberal's strengths, minimized their weaknesses, AND bouyed progressive Republicanism such that it could've fended off the more redkookian GOP.
 
I am down the middle on most issues except state rights versus Federal rights over states...

I believe a state should regulate and tax accordin' to their population, and give government programs based on their population needs...

I definitely lean heavily in the direction of federal power over states. I think that in the time of the Founding, having fairly powerful states made sense, because the tendency of problems and solutions to leak over borders was vastly reduced in that era of less technology. It's not like pollution in New York was going to cause a lot of acid rain in Massachusetts, for example. And when traveling to another state took days of riding, most issues really were local. A state would, for example, pay the price and reap the reward of its own educational decisions, when nearly everyone educated in a particular state could be expected to spend the rest of his life in that state. These days, trying to handle most issues on a state-by-state basis would be akin to trying to handle them on a town-to-town basis would have been in the time of the Founders.
 
I don't have a party either. Born an raised a Democrat...a home grown tomato ya could say...got friends back home that still are but don't vote that way. Probably cause it's a small town and mebbe a bit skittish 'bout their standin' in the community. But I'll betcha there's a many that do the same. I'm guessin' it's more about tradition than anything else.

But as fer me, I loved Kennedy, voted for Johnson (big mistake, havin' lost three buddies in Nam while that sonofabitch was scarin' folks about Goldwater), voted for Clinton once too (another big mistake). I passed on Carter and Mondale but only because I lived out of country fer 10 years and it was a hassle to vote.

Trouble is party's change. I changed with 'em. Can ya imagine any Democrat today sayin', " ask not for what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

Mebbe I'm an Independent politically because since the age of 16 that's what I've always been. I did okay. Anybody can in this country if they put they're mind to it....ohh and I ain't a big supporter of killin' babies, which don't make me exactly "progresive" anyway....just thought I'd throw that in.
 
Trouble is party's change. I changed with 'em. Can ya imagine any Democrat today sayin', " ask not for what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
Yeah - that's a paraphrase of Obama. OTOH if a Republican candidate said that, he'd be accused of being a Communist http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...1_allen-west-communist-party-usa-joe-mccarthy

You have demonstrated nothing "independent" in your thinking or reasoning here or previously on Slate.
 
I really don't place a great deal of faith in politicians, I normally settle for the lesser of two evils. I am definitely more conservative than liberal. Personally, I am against the death penalty, which puts me at odds with most of my fellow conservatives I suppose. I could do a point-by-point comparison on various issues, but in the interest of brevity (I, too, can be a bit long-winded), I'll leave it there.
 
1. I don't see the Democrats' moves to limit fat content, and reuglate calorie intake, in food as the taking away of people's freedoms, as many Republicans do. I would prefer to see the government provide information on the content of all foods (calories and fat content in all meals in restaurants) and in supermarkets; but I am not offended by the government banning shit that causes diabetes and heart disease, etc.

2. I am pissed off because Congressional Republicans roll over too easy and let themselves be taken advatage of, and used by the Democrats. This is not a new thing. I'd like to see them be more aggressive in refuting that daily lies told by Obama as he campaign on the taxpayers' dime. I don't buy into the fantasy that we can have a civil discourse with Democrats.
 
I'm registered independent. But I'm fundamentally an Anti-GOP voter since 1984. in 1980 I voted for Andersen (independent) and in 1996 I voted for Nader (independent/Green)... and in the 1988 primary I voted for Pat Robertson (WA was the only state Robertson won).

I became anti-republican when the GOP became anti-fact. So I differ from any party that diverges from the FACTS

GOP - pretty much everything they have spouted for the last 30 years
Dems -

  • Their willingness to accept the "intelligence" on Iraq from the WH
  • Their willingness to "reform" Welfare and then not follow up on its efficacy
  • Their willingness to pass the PATRIOT Act
  • Their willingness to pass Stand Your Ground laws in various states
  • Their willingness to pass "Right to Work" laws in various states
  • Their unwillingness to regulate capital outflows from the US Economy in fear of 'trade wars'
  • Their willingness to "Give Reagan/GHWB/GWB" a "fair chance to govern because he was elected"... even though the GOP has not done the same in return for 30 years
  • Their willingness to kowtow to the fearmongering around closing Gitmo
  • Their willingness to vote for the Detainee Treatment Act
  • Their willingness to vote for Reagan's "Zero Tolerance" policy
  • Their willingness to go along with Gramm-Leach-Bliley for the cheap bribe of more CRA loans
  • The whole strategy of "triangulation" in the 1990s

The list really can go on. Basically I consider the Dems to be the far lesser of two evils, but far too conservative for the good of the nation.
 
Part of bein' independent is ya don't have to demonstrate nothin' to nobody.

No that's simply "living in a private reality".... something the guy on the street corner who hears the Seattle Trolley wires "talk to him" also does.

Those who claim to live in the world of facts and reality, do have to demonstrate some connection to it.
 
Sometimes I get the feeling, on this board, that if some novel political issue arose, most of the posters wouldn't know what to think of it until their favorite partisan websites had told them. They'd be at a loss without partisan marching orders, because all they do is parrot talking points provided by the party. That appears to be especially true among the conservatives, who present lock-step opposition to each and every Democratic position. I almost always know what a conservative poster is going to say, before clicking on his comment, simply based on him being a conservative poster. He may present his position more or less eloquently, with more or less nuance and backing evidence, but ultimately I know he'll be more aligned with the GOP than the Democrats, regardless of subject.

So, I'm curious whether my impression is accurate, or if people here really do find themselves agreeing with some regularity with the party they more often oppose.

I'll start. I'm a registered independent, and always have been, but I definitely vote far more often for Democrats. So, I'll highlight the issues on which I find myself a bit closer to the standard Republican position, rather than my more typical alignment closer to the Democrats.

(1) Free trade. I'm definitely not a "no-strings-attached" free-trade evangelist, but I think that generally speaking it's a good idea to lower tariffs and other barriers to trade, despite the labor-market pains that inevitably causes. So, I frequently find myself roughly aligned with Republicans in defending NAFTA and the WTO. I'd handle free trade differently than most Republicans (e.g., putting more conditions on it, to gradually bring the third world up to our standards), but my overall outlook is closer to theirs than to a non-DLC Democrat's outlook.

(2) Unions. I think unions were a spectacularly good thing for America in their time, but I question how much of a positive role they can have going forward. I think that automation, free trade, and just the fluidity of the modern economy make it very hard to shore up improved working conditions through collective bargaining. I turn a different direction, from there, than the Republicans, though, in that I see that as a reason to use the political process to regulate working conditions better, to force the sharing of more of the advantages of productivity gains with the workers. But, like the Republicans, I wouldn't be spending political capital to try to recreate the union successes of prior eras. I wouldn't actively target unions, but I wouldn't waste much breath supporting them, either.

(3) Standardized testing. I'm not terribly zealous on this issue, but overall I find myself more often siding with Republicans than Democrats when it comes to using standardized testing to grade schools, teachers, and students. I think context is important (a teacher with a crop of poor students should get more credit for middling test scores than a teacher with a crop of excellent students does for good test scores), but I'm not at all hostile to standardized testing as a tool, and I don't care that people will "teach to the test." For me, that's an argument for writing really good tests, not an argument for avoiding them.

(4) Nuclear power. I think nuclear power is the only realistic medium-term energy solution that: a) contributes minimally to climate change, and b) can be done on a massive scale without raising energy prices to the point of economic catastrophe. I definitely share more in common with Republicans on that.

(5) Identity politics. I think in terms of individuals, mostly. When I think in terms of groups, it's usually in terms of economic class, not race, religion, ethnicity, or gender. I oppose race-based affirmative action, and I'm strongly skeptical about most efforts at "promoting diversity" and "multicultural education." I believe that if you address poverty directly, you'll do far more to help underprivileged minorities than if you try to address racism, instead (which often just results in benefiting privileged minorities, who become a form of window dressing to cover up the problem). The Democratic Party plays a lot of identity politics games, so I'm probably a bit closer to the Republicans on this.

If I'd put together a similar list fifteen or twenty years ago, I might also include an item about my support for high intellectual standards. I value formal education and serious academic achievement, and put great stock in many of the traditional topics -- the Western literary canon, ancient History, high European culture, etc. I'm a prickly grammarian who cringes at "textspeak," and I'm more than a bit reactionary when it comes to my appraisal of trash TV and the movies of Michael Bay. It's not unusual for me to get caught bemoaning the ignorance of "kids these days." Not all that long ago, that worldview also would have aligned me more with the fusty old conservatives of the Harold Bloom/William F. Buckley variety, as opposed to the cultural relativists, deconstructionists, populists, and radical egalitarians of the hippie left. But, these days, anti-intellectualism has overwhelmed the American right, so I'm more aligned with the Democrats on intellectual matters, despite my traditionalist bent.

Similarly, if I'd put this list together fifteen years ago, I would have listed my preference for market-based solutions, such as cap-and-trade greenhouse gas credits (as opposed to liberal CAFE standards and direct subsidies) and for market-driven healthcare reform (as opposed to UK-style government-provided healthcare). But, again, the GOP has gone from conservative to radical on those issues, so these days I'm closer to the Democrats than the Republicans, despite my positions not having changed.

Finally, please understand that there are a lot of issues where, although I differ with the Democrats, I align to their left, not their right. For example, I oppose Obama's decision not to prosecute Bush-administration criminality (e.g., warrantless wiretapping). But, obviously, opposing the Democrats doesn't always mean finding myself aligned with the Republicans, so those things didn't make my list.

So, how about you? On which issues do you differ from the party with which you more commonly align? On which policy questions do you find yourself aligned with those you more often fight?


My party is called Truth, Logic, Intelligence.
This party allies itself with those political forces who stick to the basic human quality of funtioning brain and adhere to honesty and reject ideological anti-factual dogmatism...
Since GOp for the last 10 at least years abandoned humanity and for the most part adopted Martian BS based on fantasy and teenager tales about Galt, my party generally allies itself with current American Democratic Party
 
I'm a moderate Democrat but very progressive on most social issues. The death penalty and 2nd Amendment issues are 2 obvious areas where I differ from my party.
 
It's rather remarkable how close we are in our political views, Arkady....and yet we can clash vehemently on some issues, like the targeting of Anwar Al-Awlaki.

On your second and third items, my biggest divergence from the Democratic hymn book is their slavish devotion to the teachers' unions, which I consider to be the biggest obstacle and hindrance to urgently needed educational reforms in this country. The unions oppose merit pay for teachers, tend to think that teachers with the same number of years of experience should be paid the same, regardless of what subject they teach (meaning a physical education teacher should be paid the same as a physics teacher), support our utterly broken certification process, and, well, I could go on. Like you, I think we need some kind of standardized testing to impart accountability to the school system---how could we 'grade' teachers and schools without standardized testing?

Like you, I support nuclear power, as long as we are not doing idiotic things like building nuclear power plants on top of major earthquake faults. I also tend to have an innate dislike for identity politics. I definitely grew up in a non-racist household; my parents simply did not 'understand' racism, and neither did I. When I met a deeply racist uncle, it bothered me to the core of my soul---drove me nuts, in fact. I didn't even want to ever talk to the man again.

Oddly enough, it is not truly clear that Mitt Rmoney is a supporter of free trade. 'The Economist' recently accused him of pandering to the left on trade (and of pandering to the right on tax cuts). Rmoney has vowed to label China as a 'currency manipulator' on his first day in office. Like 'The Economist', I think that is wildly dangerous. The very last thing the global economy needs right now is a trade war between the United States and China.
 
Back
Top