Zelensky is 100% spot on...

[Raoul_Luke]

Amid reports (in Newsweek no less) that Russia is in fact currently expanding Ukrainian territory under its control despite Ukraine's much ballyhooed "counter offensive:"

Map Reveals Russia's Progress During Ukraine Counteroffensive (newsweek.com)

NATO meets in Vilnius, Lithuania and one of the matters under discussion is, of course, Ukraine's admission. As you might expect from a gaggle of neocon chicken hawks, they are making lots of noise about Ukraine becoming a NATO State but, of course, zilch with respect to when it will be admitted:

Nato summit: Ukraine's future membership to be discussed by leaders in Vilnius

But the meeting in Lithuania will see disagreement over Ukraine's ambition to join the military bloc.

www.bbc.com

https://www.axios.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-join-nato-conditions

Nato summit: Allies refuse to give Ukraine timeframe on joining

The alliance says Kyiv can join "when conditions are met" as President Zelensky criticises "absurd" delay.

www.bbc.com

As you might expect, that isn't acceptable to Zelensky:

Zelenskyy blasts ‘absurd’ draft text that hedges on Ukraine’s NATO membership timeline

The Ukrainian president’s outrage is raising eyebrows at the NATO summit.

www.politico.eu

He's right, you know - Ukraine can't win without NATO troops on the ground (and in the air) so putting off their ascention to NATO membership simply prolongs and extends the carnage and destruction of their beautiful country (and people).

You think it's starting to finally sink in that the last thing NATO cares about is saving his nation from destruction at the hands of the Russian invaders, and that their (only) aim is to bleed Russia of equipment and troops so they become less of a threat to those privileged enough to already belong? Mmmmmmm, could be...

 

[write on]

Amid reports (in Newsweek no less) that Russia is in fact currently expanding Ukrainian territory under its control despite Ukraine's much ballyhooed "counter offensive:"

Map Reveals Russia's Progress During Ukraine Counteroffensive (newsweek.com)

NATO meets in Vilnius, Lithuania and one of the matters under discussion is, of course, Ukraine's admission. As you might expect from a gaggle of neocon chicken hawks, they are making lots of noise about Ukraine becoming a NATO State but, of course, zilch with respect to when it will be admitted:

Nato summit: Ukraine's future membership to be discussed by leaders in Vilnius

But the meeting in Lithuania will see disagreement over Ukraine's ambition to join the military bloc.

www.bbc.com

https://www.axios.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-join-nato-conditions

Nato summit: Allies refuse to give Ukraine timeframe on joining

The alliance says Kyiv can join "when conditions are met" as President Zelensky criticises "absurd" delay.

www.bbc.com

As you might expect, that isn't acceptable to Zelensky:

Zelenskyy blasts ‘absurd’ draft text that hedges on Ukraine’s NATO membership timeline

The Ukrainian president’s outrage is raising eyebrows at the NATO summit.

www.politico.eu

He's right, you know - Ukraine can't win without NATO troops on the ground (and in the air) so putting off their ascention to NATO membership simply prolongs and extends the carnage and destruction of their beautiful country (and people).

You think it's starting to finally sink in that the last thing NATO cares about is saving his nation from destruction at the hands of the Russian invaders, and that their (only) aim is to bleed Russia of equipment and troops so they become less of a threat to those privileged enough to already belong? Mmmmmmm, could be...

I think that if push comes to shove, NATO will expedite Ukraine's membership and put troops on the ground.

We'll see

 

[middleview]

I think that if push comes to shove, NATO will expedite Ukraine's membership and put troops on the ground.

We'll see

Unanimous agreement is necessary for Ukraine to become a member now.

 

[write on]

Unanimous agreement is necessary for Ukraine to become a member now.

Like I said, fight fire with fire. As we all know, Putin took his gloves off when he used cluster bombs.

I think that the majority of NATO will do the same and if forced, use the majority vote and send in troops.

 

[middleview]

Like I said, fight fire with fire. As we all know, Putin took his gloves off when he used cluster bombs.

I think that the majority of NATO will do the same and if forced, use the majority vote and send in troops.

NATO rules require unanimous endorsement. Recently Turkey held up Sweden's application.

 

[write on]

NATO rules require unanimous endorsement. Recently Turkey held up Sweden's application.

The world is at a tipping point.

Sweden isn't fighting a Russian invasion. I continue to think about the circumstances in the beginning of WWIII.

 

[middleview]

The world is at a tipping point.

Sweden isn't fighting a Russian invasion. I continue to think about the circumstances in the beginning of WWIII.

And the membership rules would keep a country at war from joining...Biden addressed this yesterday.

 

[write on]

And the membership rules would keep a country at war from joining...Biden addressed this yesterday.

I'm just tossing out something to think about. You know, like being the devil's advocate?

 

[georgephillip]

I think that if push comes to shove, NATO will expedite Ukraine's membership and put troops on the ground.

We'll see

What do you think will happen if NATO puts troops on the ground in Ukraine?

 

[write on]

What do you think will happen if NATO puts troops on the ground in Ukraine?

Just the threat of Ukraine being a member of NATO and putting troops on the ground will give Putin a second thought and force him to have some personal talks with his generals and change their attack- hopefully ending it.

 

[georgephillip]

Amid reports (in Newsweek no less) that Russia is in fact currently expanding Ukrainian territory under its control despite Ukraine's much ballyhooed "counter offensive:"

Map Reveals Russia's Progress During Ukraine Counteroffensive (newsweek.com)

NATO meets in Vilnius, Lithuania and one of the matters under discussion is, of course, Ukraine's admission. As you might expect from a gaggle of neocon chicken hawks, they are making lots of noise about Ukraine becoming a NATO State but, of course, zilch with respect to when it will be admitted:

Nato summit: Ukraine's future membership to be discussed by leaders in Vilnius

But the meeting in Lithuania will see disagreement over Ukraine's ambition to join the military bloc.

www.bbc.com

https://www.axios.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-join-nato-conditions

Nato summit: Allies refuse to give Ukraine timeframe on joining

The alliance says Kyiv can join "when conditions are met" as President Zelensky criticises "absurd" delay.

www.bbc.com

As you might expect, that isn't acceptable to Zelensky:

Zelenskyy blasts ‘absurd’ draft text that hedges on Ukraine’s NATO membership timeline

The Ukrainian president’s outrage is raising eyebrows at the NATO summit.

www.politico.eu

He's right, you know - Ukraine can't win without NATO troops on the ground (and in the air) so putting off their ascention to NATO membership simply prolongs and extends the carnage and destruction of their beautiful country (and people).

You think it's starting to finally sink in that the last thing NATO cares about is saving his nation from destruction at the hands of the Russian invaders, and that their (only) aim is to bleed Russia of equipment and troops so they become less of a threat to those privileged enough to already belong? Mmmmmmm, could be...

Your link:

"An interactive map published by the ISW shows Russia actually seizing control of more areas than Ukraine during the current fighting, including major regions such as the Donetsk Oblast, Mariupol and Kherson—the latter of which has been a combat hotbed."

Douglas Macgregor has recently claimed Russia is firing 60,000 total artillery shells a day compared to Ukraine's 6000 a day; if true, regime change is coming to Kyiv (and DC) long before Moscow.

 

[middleview]

What do you think will happen if NATO puts troops on the ground in Ukraine?

I think the result would be increased Russian support for Putin. They would hear his version of events...poor Russia, the victim.

As long as Ukraine is kicking his ass it makes him weaker.

 

[write on]

What do you think will happen if NATO puts troops on the ground in Ukraine?

WWIII? Who knows?

As you know, using the idiom 'putting troops on the ground' shouldn't be taken literal- especially with NATO. I think that if NATO defends Ukraine, the last thing they will use is troops on the ground. And I don't think that it would get to that point.

 

[middleview]

Your link:

"An interactive map published by the ISW shows Russia actually seizing control of more areas than Ukraine during the current fighting, including major regions such as the Donetsk Oblast, Mariupol and Kherson—the latter of which has been a combat hotbed."

Douglas Macgregor has recently claimed Russia is firing 60,000 total artillery shells a day compared to Ukraine's 6000 a day; if true, regime change is coming to Kyiv (and DC) long before Moscow.

Is that what you are rooting for? Complete conquest of a sovereign state, subjugation of it's people?

Too bad Russian artillery is targeting mostly civilians and Ukraine is targeting Russian troops.

Douglas Macgregor is a POS who was paid to go on RT to criticize the US. He has been anti-Nato and pro-Russian. In 2014 he spoke supporting the annexation of Donbas. Three days after the invasion he went on Fox News to say that the battle was almost over and that if the Ukrainian army didn't surrender in the next 24 hours the Russian army would annihilate them.

Russian state television channels RT and VGTRK broadcast excerpts of Macgregor's second Carlson appearance, which included a characterization of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy as a "puppet," that Russian forces had been "too gentle" in the early days of the invasion and that Russian president Vladimir Putin was being "demonized" by the United States and NATO.[5][59] His opinions on Russia and Ukraine have caused controversy, with some including Liz Cheney describing Macgregor as being a member of the "Putin wing of the GOP.

 

[georgephillip]

Just the threat of Ukraine being a member of NATO and putting troops on the ground will give Putin a second thought and force him to have some personal talks with his generals and change their attack- hopefully ending it.

Putin has had all those thoughts before.
And he knows what percentage of Germans, French, and UK populations want to go to war with Russia.
Many Americans appear arrogant enough to believe Putin will back down from NATO.
He will not; his generals would never allow it.
If you plan to profit from WWIII, by all means put NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine.

 

[middleview]

WWIII? Who knows?

As you know, using the idiom 'putting troops on the ground' shouldn't be taken literal- especially with NATO. I think that if NATO defends Ukraine, the last thing they will use is troops on the ground. And I don't think that it would get to that point.

There could be a number of alternatives to having infantry troops in the front line trenches. Artillery, anti-missile systems, pilots flying from Poland or Finland....any could turn the tide.

 

[middleview]

Putin has had all those thoughts before.
And he knows what percentage of Germans, French, and UK populations want to go to war with Russia.
Many Americans appear arrogant enough to believe Putin will back down from NATO.
He will not; his generals would never allow it.
If you plan to profit from WWIII, by all means put NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine.

I wonder why Putin is feeling it necessary to kill off his former supporters...

My bet is his generals are on the verge of mutiny.

 

[georgephillip]

I think the result would be increased Russian support for Putin. They would hear his version of events...poor Russia, the victim.

As long as Ukraine is kicking his ass it makes him weaker.

Ukraine is not kicking Russian ass.
Just the opposite.
After all, only the US believes in Full Spectrum Dominance.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/what-if-russia-is-winning-americas-proxy-war-in-ukraine/

"American support for Kiev concerns geopolitics more than casualties.

"Washington officials claim to oppose spheres of interest, but some unashamedly cite the Monroe Doctrine’s assertion of America’s hegemony in the Western Hemisphere; most unofficially believe the U.S. should dominate every other nation, including Russia, up to its border.

"To that end, successive American administrations ignored the many allied commitments to Moscow to not expand NATO."

 

[Spamature]

Amid reports (in Newsweek no less) that Russia is in fact currently expanding Ukrainian territory under its control despite Ukraine's much ballyhooed "counter offensive:"

Map Reveals Russia's Progress During Ukraine Counteroffensive (newsweek.com)

NATO meets in Vilnius, Lithuania and one of the matters under discussion is, of course, Ukraine's admission. As you might expect from a gaggle of neocon chicken hawks, they are making lots of noise about Ukraine becoming a NATO State but, of course, zilch with respect to when it will be admitted:

Nato summit: Ukraine's future membership to be discussed by leaders in Vilnius

But the meeting in Lithuania will see disagreement over Ukraine's ambition to join the military bloc.

www.bbc.com

https://www.axios.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-join-nato-conditions

Nato summit: Allies refuse to give Ukraine timeframe on joining

The alliance says Kyiv can join "when conditions are met" as President Zelensky criticises "absurd" delay.

www.bbc.com

As you might expect, that isn't acceptable to Zelensky:

Zelenskyy blasts ‘absurd’ draft text that hedges on Ukraine’s NATO membership timeline

The Ukrainian president’s outrage is raising eyebrows at the NATO summit.

www.politico.eu

He's right, you know - Ukraine can't win without NATO troops on the ground (and in the air) so putting off their ascention to NATO membership simply prolongs and extends the carnage and destruction of their beautiful country (and people).

You think it's starting to finally sink in that the last thing NATO cares about is saving his nation from destruction at the hands of the Russian invaders, and that their (only) aim is to bleed Russia of equipment and troops so they become less of a threat to those privileged enough to already belong? Mmmmmmm, could be...

You really are rooting for and invested in the Russians winning.
WTF ? Ukrainians are FIGHTING for their country.
Do the right thing and defect then volunteer to fight for Vlad yourself.
Literally the enemy within...

 

[middleview]

Ukraine is not kicking Russian ass.
Just the opposite.
After all, only the US believes in Full Spectrum Dominance.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/what-if-russia-is-winning-americas-proxy-war-in-ukraine/

"American support for Kiev concerns geopolitics more than casualties.

"Washington officials claim to oppose spheres of interest, but some unashamedly cite the Monroe Doctrine’s assertion of America’s hegemony in the Western Hemisphere; most unofficially believe the U.S. should dominate every other nation, including Russia, up to its border.

"To that end, successive American administrations ignored the many allied commitments to Moscow to not expand NATO."

So are Russian troops still almost encircling Kyiv? Nope...forced to withdraw. Wagner group headed for Belarus? That would be between 25k and 50k fighters out of the front line. Yeah, things are going really well....begging for help from North Korea, Iran and China.