Discussion: How does one get a share of the economic pie?

[NightSwimmer]

I see nothing about any guarantee.

It appears to be implied that if one works hard and goes to school, then they'll have an opportunity to be successful. That isn't necessarily true. Many people work hard, do their best, get an education and never find an opportunity to become successful. The value of earning a middle class income in the US has been in decline for quite a while now, and the pathways to earning even a middle class income are becoming more scarce. Meanwhile, our nation is richer than it has ever been. These are the facts.

 

[connieb]

Ever ask yourself why? I never did until I got a lot older. Then you ask yourself and it is damn hard to answer it the same way you did when you were 20, 30 or 40. As for your definition of hard work, many people get very rich not working any where near as hard as you think. For instance, say you had 10 million dollars and invested it in several start up companies. One hits big and you make 100 million on the IPO. Did you work hard for that 100 million? So now you are gambling, but that 10 million is mice nuts to you, you are worth 1 billion. Guy in engineering that created the product and "worked" hard, got a measly 100 grand out of it, no parachute, no employment contract, nada, zilch.

Or say you are on the board of a company, you meet once a quarter, get paid a stipend to attend board meetings that go like this: Fly in on company dime the night before, check into 5 star hotel, meals covered, average cost of meal 200 bucks a head, you have limo service to board meeting, board meeting lasts 3 hours, cocktails follow, next day you are back on a flight, first class. You get paid 40 grand a year to be on the board and 100,000 options. Did you work hard for that payday when it goes public and your cut is 10 million bucks? You were only on that board for 3 years...But the guy in shipping at that company worked his ass off for 35 grand a year just like you described and he got 20 grand out of it. Who worked hard and got paid again?

See how hard work is not exactly the same for everyone?

No, its not the same for everyone. But, then, life isn't fair. Sometimes it is who you know and not necessarily what you know.

But, if you work yourself as hard as you can, you will get some measure of success. My brother recently got an enormously lucrative job offer. Same parents, same upbringing, etc. He is vastly more wealthy now than I am, and I would have said, I do pretty well. We both work hard, but we work differently.

He has been able, largely because of his personality, to just doggedly persue opportunities. I have shied away from some and have not been willing to take the personal or financial risks he has. I prefer to spend more time at home with my family, he travels all week almost every week and only comes home on the weekends. He gets the first class flights for work travel and is moving now in the right circles to give him those kinds of opportunities you talked about. But, he did work his tail off to get there, but how and what he did was different than how or what I did. We are still both successful though.

I will not ever have his level of success. That is OK. But, I have my level of success and I have gotten the piece of the financial pie that I am happy with. Sure, I would always like a bigger slice, who wouldn't? But, you can't compare the actual physical work and say someone is working harder.

Yes, maybe they are - but WHAT did they do to advance? Did they go to college? Spend nights and weekends networking? Did they study for every promotion possible? Did they look at other career paths and opportunities? I would bet you that guy doing shipping did work his ass off - BUT - he was also pretty complacent. He said, this is "good enough" I am not going to try to advance anymore. And, when you give up like that, its on you.

As far as the "why" Do I ever think about it. I don't have to. I do it for me, for my family and to provide the absolute best that I think I am capable of for my family. I don't do it because I like the work, or that is how I want to spend my time, or because its the path of least resistence, which is how so many people end up in dead end jobs. I do it because I want to build wealth. Period. I want to get as big of a slice of that pie as I possibly can. I won't get a slice as big as some. But, I will do what I have to do to get it.

connie

 

[bdtex]

second question: How does one increase ones share of the economic pie?

CAVEAT: Strictly apolitical. Any steerage in that direction will be excised.

You might consider this political but it isn't.

1. Receive a big damn inheritance
2. Hire a CPA/investment adviser that knows the tax loopholes

I have 2 friends like that who haven't "worked" the entire time I've known them and I have no idea what their political leanings are. I don't begrudge them either. It is what it is.

 

[NightSwimmer]

You might consider this political but it isn't.

1. Receive a big damn inheritance
2. Hire a CPA/investment adviser that knows the tax loopholes

I have 2 friends like that who haven't "worked" the entire time I've known them and I have no idea what their political leanings are. I don't begrudge them either. It is what it is.

I know several who fit that description. I know their political leanings as well. I don't begrudge a person who inherited several million dollars supporting the GOP. They are only acting in their own self interests. That makes sense. What I find disgusting is working-class people who support the GOP simply because they dream of accidentally becoming wealthy some day. Such behavior requires a level of stupidity that will most certainly be an impediment to their ever actually realizing that dream.

 

[Wahbooz]

second question: How does one increase ones share of the economic pie?

CAVEAT: Strictly apolitical. Any steerage in that direction will be excised.

Question one: select a discipline, and expand your knowledge base. You have to have a goal, and you have to be willing and determined to attain it. Our educational system has always been skewed to better serve a certain sector of our society, you can not let that 'keep you down'. You have to know how to expand your knowledge of whatever discipline you choose to follow.

Question two: planning. There are risks to expansion, and one must learn which is the least risk to your economic stability; how to 'buy in' so to speak, and then how to 'upgrade' that buy in.

 

[Woolleybugger]

No, its not the same for everyone. But, then, life isn't fair. Sometimes it is who you know and not necessarily what you know.

But, if you work yourself as hard as you can, you will get some measure of success. My brother recently got an enormously lucrative job offer. Same parents, same upbringing, etc. He is vastly more wealthy now than I am, and I would have said, I do pretty well. We both work hard, but we work differently.

He has been able, largely because of his personality, to just doggedly persue opportunities. I have shied away from some and have not been willing to take the personal or financial risks he has. I prefer to spend more time at home with my family, he travels all week almost every week and only comes home on the weekends. He gets the first class flights for work travel and is moving now in the right circles to give him those kinds of opportunities you talked about. But, he did work his tail off to get there, but how and what he did was different than how or what I did. We are still both successful though.

I will not ever have his level of success. That is OK. But, I have my level of success and I have gotten the piece of the financial pie that I am happy with. Sure, I would always like a bigger slice, who wouldn't? But, you can't compare the actual physical work and say someone is working harder.

Yes, maybe they are - but WHAT did they do to advance? Did they go to college? Spend nights and weekends networking? Did they study for every promotion possible? Did they look at other career paths and opportunities? I would bet you that guy doing shipping did work his ass off - BUT - he was also pretty complacent. He said, this is "good enough" I am not going to try to advance anymore. And, when you give up like that, its on you.

As far as the "why" Do I ever think about it. I don't have to. I do it for me, for my family and to provide the absolute best that I think I am capable of for my family. I don't do it because I like the work, or that is how I want to spend my time, or because its the path of least resistence, which is how so many people end up in dead end jobs. I do it because I want to build wealth. Period. I want to get as big of a slice of that pie as I possibly can. I won't get a slice as big as some. But, I will do what I have to do to get it.

connie

Fair enough but then let's dispense with the working hard meme...it's mostly a crap shoot and has nothing to do with working harder than someone else. They key is to pay a living wage for work, period. The other constant is that those that produce wealth usually get a very small cut of that wealth once it is doled out. By accepting the current system, we become patsies not partners. For this reason alone, higher marginal rates on all income is demonstrative of a fair society. For this reason, punitive inheritance taxes provide each generation the opportunity to work hard and earn it with their own hands. For these reasons and more, our system has been corrupted by the elite with the consent of patsies. Stop being a patsy.

 

[Wahbooz]

Fair enough but then let's dispense with the working hard meme...it's mostly a crap shoot and has nothing to do with working harder than someone else. They key is to pay a living wage for work, period. The other constant is that those that produce wealth usually get a very small cut of that wealth once it is doled out. By accepting the current system, we become patsies not partners. For this reason alone, higher marginal rates on all income is demonstrative of a fair society. For this reason, punitive inheritance taxes provide each generation the opportunity to work hard and earn it with their own hands. For these reasons and more, our system has been corrupted by the elite with the consent of patsies. Stop being a patsy.

I hate to say it but when I see the "who you know, not what you know", it reminds me of the kissass who is able to baffle the boss. That is until it catches up with him or her. In my long career I have seen many like that, and I guess they lose their "share of the economic pie".