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Amazon wants to unlock your doors and drop packages inside.

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
Is this something you would be open to? Reliable...or hackable? I'm mostly against "smart" devices in the home. I really do not need my appliances or doors hooked into the internet. In addition, my front door is down a 300 foot long driveway...on a rural dead end street, so doorstep thievery is a non-issue.

The world’s largest online retailer on Wednesday announced Amazon Key, a lock and camera system that users control remotely to let delivery associates slip goods into their houses. Customers can create temporary passcodes for friends and other services professionals to enter as well...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...an-slip-packages-into-your-home-idUSKBN1CU1G2
 
Is this something you would be open to? Reliable...or hackable? I'm mostly against "smart" devices in the home. I really do not need my appliances or doors hooked into the internet. In addition, my front door is down a 300 foot long driveway...on a rural dead end street, so doorstep thievery is a non-issue.

The world’s largest online retailer on Wednesday announced Amazon Key, a lock and camera system that users control remotely to let delivery associates slip goods into their houses. Customers can create temporary passcodes for friends and other services professionals to enter as well...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...an-slip-packages-into-your-home-idUSKBN1CU1G2

You're a lawyer.... Do you see any possible legal snares in such a system?

Do you think Amazon would have people sign agreements that would prevent them from being liable for damages and or burglary due to the system?

How do you feel about it personally?

Myself I think this kind of thing is inevitable.

Jo
 
Is this something you would be open to? Reliable...or hackable? I'm mostly against "smart" devices in the home. I really do not need my appliances or doors hooked into the internet. In addition, my front door is down a 300 foot long driveway...on a rural dead end street, so doorstep thievery is a non-issue.

The world’s largest online retailer on Wednesday announced Amazon Key, a lock and camera system that users control remotely to let delivery associates slip goods into their houses. Customers can create temporary passcodes for friends and other services professionals to enter as well...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...an-slip-packages-into-your-home-idUSKBN1CU1G2

Yeah I saw that. No thanks. I could maybe see creating some sort of secured bin or outdoor closet they could access but definitely not opening my door.

I have my stuff delivered to my office . Part because of doorstep theft fears and part because I don't want my kids or husband finding their gifts on the front step.
 
Is this something you would be open to? Reliable...or hackable? I'm mostly against "smart" devices in the home. I really do not need my appliances or doors hooked into the internet. In addition, my front door is down a 300 foot long driveway...on a rural dead end street, so doorstep thievery is a non-issue.

The world’s largest online retailer on Wednesday announced Amazon Key, a lock and camera system that users control remotely to let delivery associates slip goods into their houses. Customers can create temporary passcodes for friends and other services professionals to enter as well...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...an-slip-packages-into-your-home-idUSKBN1CU1G2
I've got a smart home -- in theory, my X-box, Amazon Echo, computer, TV, or any number of idevices could be listening to me, and it's possible to turn on and off my lights remotely. I also have a punch-key door.

But, honestly, how secure is your house even with traditional locks? In college I went through a brief period where I was obsessed with lock-picking. With all of two weeks practice, I got to the point where I could get into most standard locks in under a minute. It doesn't take special tools, either. Give me two bobby pins, or two paperclips, and I can do it with a little struggle. Give me two street-sweeper tines (easily found left behind in most parking lots), and a metal file, and I can produce a professional-quality tension bar and pick with half an hour of effort. Raking the lock is absurdly easy -- just use the tension bar to put gentle pressure on it, then gently rake back and forth across the pins. Slowly, they'll get jammed, one by one, into the mechanism, and then the barrel will turn. It takes some practice to get a feel for how much pressure to use, but once you've got it, you don't need any special skill.

Unless you have special high-security locks, steel doors, and bars on all your windows, you're fooling yourself if you think your home is secure.
 
You're a lawyer.... Do you see any possible legal snares in such a system?

Do you think Amazon would have people sign agreements that would prevent them from being liable for damages and or burglary due to the system?

How do you feel about it personally?

Myself I think this kind of thing is inevitable.

Jo

Me? A lawyer? No.

I'm a retired taxi-driver, game play counselor, letter writer, proofreader, video game tester, field research manager and radio dj/broadcaster.
 
I've got a smart home -- in theory, my X-box, Amazon Echo, computer, TV, or any number of idevices could be listening to me, and it's possible to turn on and off my lights remotely. I also have a punch-key door.

But, honestly, how secure is your house even with traditional locks? In college I went through a brief period where I was obsessed with lock-picking. With all of two weeks practice, I got to the point where I could get into most standard locks in under a minute. It doesn't take special tools, either. Give me two bobby pins, or two paperclips, and I can do it with a little struggle. Give me two street-sweeper tines (easily found left behind in most parking lots), and a metal file, and I can produce a professional-quality tension bar and pick with half an hour of effort. Unless you have special high-security locks, steel doors, and bars on all your windows, you're fooling yourself if you think your home is secure.

When I moved in with my now wife, I was working overnights. She, out of habit locked the doors...and that includes a slide bolt on the most used door...the only door to which I had a key.

So...I broke in...

I guess I just don't need Amazon and Walmart to have access...
 
Yeah I saw that. No thanks. I could maybe see creating some sort of secured bin or outdoor closet they could access but definitely not opening my door.

I have my stuff delivered to my office . Part because of doorstep theft fears and part because I don't want my kids or husband finding their gifts on the front step.

Our property is gated at the street, and the gate is about 800 feet from the house, so we installed a parcel drop box at the gate. It's worked out great, other than the occasional package that's too big to fit in the box.
 
Is this something you would be open to? Reliable...or hackable? I'm mostly against "smart" devices in the home. I really do not need my appliances or doors hooked into the internet. In addition, my front door is down a 300 foot long driveway...on a rural dead end street, so doorstep thievery is a non-issue.

The world’s largest online retailer on Wednesday announced Amazon Key, a lock and camera system that users control remotely to let delivery associates slip goods into their houses. Customers can create temporary passcodes for friends and other services professionals to enter as well...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...an-slip-packages-into-your-home-idUSKBN1CU1G2

After 8 years of Obama trust has gone out the window. Do I want Jeff Bezos to have access to my house? Individualism not creeps up again...You did build that

Lets see how this benefits

1. You live in S. Chicago...ok maybe they don't deliver there at all, but it could prevent crimes, lost packages ect.(not a safe neighborhood)

2. You are on vacation, rain weather ect.

3. You could create a secondary box with an Amazon Key. So the house does not need to be entered.

I however agree with the premise of the post.
 
I've got a smart home -- in theory, my X-box, Amazon Echo, computer, TV, or any number of idevices could be listening to me, and it's possible to turn on and off my lights remotely. I also have a punch-key door.

But, honestly, how secure is your house even with traditional locks? In college I went through a brief period where I was obsessed with lock-picking. With all of two weeks practice, I got to the point where I could get into most standard locks in under a minute. It doesn't take special tools, either. Give me two bobby pins, or two paperclips, and I can do it with a little struggle. Give me two street-sweeper tines (easily found left behind in most parking lots), and a metal file, and I can produce a professional-quality tension bar and pick with half an hour of effort. Raking the lock is absurdly easy -- just use the tension bar to put gentle pressure on it, then gently rake back and forth across the pins. Slowly, they'll get jammed, one by one, into the mechanism, and then the barrel will turn. It takes some practice to get a feel for how much pressure to use, but once you've got it, you don't need any special skill.

Unless you have special high-security locks, steel doors, and bars on all your windows, you're fooling yourself if you think your home is secure.

The things in your house do not belong to you anyway.
 
Me? A lawyer? No.

I'm a retired taxi-driver, game play counselor, letter writer, proofreader, video game tester, field research manager and radio dj/broadcaster.

As an avid gamer, I have to ask if you’ve ever tested any games I would have played?
 
Me? A lawyer? No.

I'm a retired taxi-driver, game play counselor, letter writer, proofreader, video game tester, field research manager and radio dj/broadcaster.

A retired proofreader would know "DJ" is an acronym, and therefore its letters would be capitalized.

I'm guessing proofreading didn't work out so well for you.
 
two thoughts -

1- this is going to make it a lot easier to deliver narcotics, if the purchaser is afraid to answer the door, or cant be home. works well in the hood

2 in the wealthier suburbs, its the perfect opportunity for part time drivers with cursory background checks to take a look at the inside of your house, and schedule a break in for later in the day/week, if the recipients appear to be travelling.
 
When I moved in with my now wife, I was working overnights. She, out of habit locked the doors...and that includes a slide bolt on the most used door...the only door to which I had a key.

So...I broke in...

I guess I just don't need Amazon and Walmart to have access...
We get a huge number of Amazon deliveries, but our solution is that we have a "mud room" that we leave unlocked, with a lock for the rest of the house, so they can leave things in there, out of sight and out of the weather.
 
As an avid gamer, I have to ask if you’ve ever tested any games I would have played?

Dunno. I worked for Nintendo and Taito in the late 80's and early 90's.

Games I worked with include: Bubble Bobble, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Dungeon Magic, Kiwi Kraze, Puzznic and Wrath of The Black Manta.
 
After 8 years of Obama trust has gone out the window.
Let's take a look at what actually happened during eight years of Obama, in terms of something relevant to this discussion.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

The burglary rate declined from 732.1 to 468.9 -- an improvement of 36% in just eight years -- roughly the same as the improvement in the Clinton years (38%).

To put that in perspective, in the Bush years the burglary rate rose about half a percent.

Do you have any theory for why burglary was becoming rapidly less common in the Clinton and Obama years, but more common in the Bush years?
 
We get a huge number of Amazon deliveries, but our solution is that we have a "mud room" that we leave unlocked, with a lock for the rest of the house, so they can leave things in there, out of sight and out of the weather.

Seems a good solution. I have a similar architectural setup. Carport into utility room...then into the kitchen. I could isolate the utility room.

ASOT brought up the "casing the joint" aspect...which I believe might be a greater general threat than allowing your UPS/FedEx driver access.
 
Dunno. I worked for Nintendo and Taito in the late 80's and early 90's.

Games I worked with include: Bubble Bobble, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Dungeon Magic, Kiwi Kraze, Puzznic and Wrath of The Black Manta.

Loved Bubble Bobble back in the day.
 
Do you have any theory for why burglary was becoming rapidly less common in the Clinton and Obama years, but more common in the Bush years?
@Drumcollie
Sure, in the Clinton years the [Unwelcome language removed] were being put in jail. In the Obama years home alarm systems and security cameras became more prevalent.
 
@Drumcollie
Sure, in the Clinton years the [Unwelcome language removed] were being put in jail. In the Obama years home alarm systems and security cameras became more prevalent.
Have you heard the term "special pleading"? It often takes the form of someone arguing that every example is a special exception to the general rule. Basically, whenever a result doesn't fit with their worldview, they rummage around looking for any special circumstance they can attribute it to.

I see this over and over with Republicans. For example, the economic growth under Obama doesn't count because we had big deficits, the economic shrinkage under Bush doesn't count, because it was just a delayed consequence of something or other that happened in the Clinton years, the economic growth in the Clinton years doesn't count, because it was just the dotcom bubble...... and they can go right on back that way all the way to throwing out the spectacular economic growth of the FDR years because there was a war. Nothing fits their worldview, thus all real-world results must be invalidated based on a collection of random justifications.

That's what this sounds like to me. You want to attribute the improvement of the Clinton years to rising incarceration rates. But burglary rose in the Bush years, despite incarceration rates rising. And burglary fell in the Obama years nearly as much as the Clinton years, despite incarceration rates falling. But you have some special pleading for that, too -- it was the increase of home alarm systems and security cameras.

Did you stop and ask yourself whether home alarm system use had been rising faster in the Obama years than before that? That's the first thing one would want to know to decide whether the Obama-era improvement was attributable to those systems, right? So, did you look into it? Of course not. You liked the sound of your argument, and so whether it was true or not simply didn't matter. Yet, there's reason to think it isn't true:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525904/us-home-security-solutions-sales/

As you can see, revenues from home security systems rose by about 3.7% annually over the last five years. Adjust for inflation, and it's about 2.2%. That's not bad, since it outpaces population growth, but it's not exactly setting the world on fire.

By comparison, in earlier eras, annual growth was as much as 30%:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.561.1157&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Or check out the early 90s, when ADT's customer base for home security rose at a 34% annualized rate:

http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/history2/15/ADT-Security-Systems-Inc.html

In the mid-1990s, it was rising 10% per year:

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/25/realestate/home-security-systems.html

In other words, the expansion of home security systems in the Obama years was well below the historical pace, and yet burglaries declined by over a third in just eight years. Why?
 
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