So when the President constructs his straw man argument...

[Lukey]

That "some people think the country is better off when everyone is 'on their own'" - who exactly is he referring to? Well, I think we can agree that this is just a smokescreen for his collectivist agenda. What "we" are suggesting is that the country is better off when there's a focus on personal responsibility, rather than entitlement. I mean, who teaches their kids that they are better off if they eschew personal responsibility? "Now Johnny, if your friends are all jumping off a bridge, I want you to jump right off that bridge with them?" Right? Who says that?

 

[Jen]

Those who choose to believe in Obama............will buy into anything he says. He has been known to say that Republicans think in ways that never occurred to Republicans to think............. but Obamites believe it, report it here, and defend it..........

There are people who are just that unthinking. Truth? Matters not. So Obama knows he can lie and get by with it and he is doing just that. And he will continue.

 

[OldGaffer]

Obama is a mainstream Democrat, your hatred of Democratic Policies is noted and dismissed. See you in November.

 

[Saladin2]

He is an extreme leftist...Who allowed the stupid Bush Tax cuts to continue?.....Doesn't sound all that leftist...Oh yeah I forgot...some of these Republican types are crazed paranoid fear mongers...nevermind

 

[connieb]

Yes, what I never understand is how the left gets away with perverting the idea of personal responsibility means you just let everyone else die or starve or what have you.

What is wrong with the theory that everyone else should do the absolute most they can to take care of themselves and IF there is tragedy or IF the person is really unable - the rest of us will step in and pitch in to the extent we are able?

 

[Lukey]

Obama is a mainstream Democrat, your hatred of Democratic Policies is noted and dismissed. See you in November.

Yes, he is. He's moved the party decidedly to the left, however, and now it doesn't line up so well with a "center right" country. See you in November for sure!

 

[Lukey]

Yes, what I never understand is how the left gets away with perverting the idea of personal responsibility means you just let everyone else die or starve or what have you.

What is wrong with the theory that everyone else should do the absolute most they can to take care of themselves and IF there is tragedy or IF the person is really unable - the rest of us will step in and pitch in to the extent we are able?

Nothing, of course. In fact, those are the hallmarks of a strong, growth oriented society. And the President is seeking then to weaken America (either out of incompetence or as part of a Cloward Piven type strategy).

 

[Saladin2]

Oh no...The weird "President Obama" is trying to bring down America.....Too funny...and played out...Try again Obama hater...Your lies are tired and weak

 

[Lukey]

Oh no...The weird "President Obama" is trying to bring down America.....Too funny...and played out...Try again Obama hater...Your lies are tired and weak

You know, if that's all you have, I think that is a pretty good indication that I am spot on with this.

 

[OldGaffer]

Lukey, Obama has not moved the country to the left at all, do you think he is left of Hillary Clinton? Or Bill Clinton for that matter. Hell, he is not even left of FDR and John Kennedy. Just because the far right fringe has taken control of the Republican Party, does not mean that the country has moved right as a whole. Center right does not include 10% of the current Republican party, including you.

 

[Woolleybugger]

Miss Hilly agrees with you.

 

[gabriel]

no we cant agree. he meant those who want a laissez faire economy that has no social safety nets.

 

[ITALIA]

That "some people think the country is better off when everyone is 'on their own'" - who exactly is he referring to? Well, I think we can agree that this is just a smokescreen for his collectivist agenda. What "we" are suggesting is that the country is better off when there's a focus on personal responsibility, rather than entitlement. I mean, who teaches their kids that they are better off if they eschew personal responsibility? "Now Johnny, if your friends are all jumping off a bridge, I want you to jump right off that bridge with them?" Right? Who says that?

Your straw man argument is noted.

 

[Lukey]

Lukey, Obama has not moved the country to the left at all, do you think he is left of Hillary Clinton? Or Bill Clinton for that matter. Hell, he is not even left of FDR and John Kennedy. Just because the far right fringe has taken control of the Republican Party, does not mean that the country has moved right as a whole. Center right does not include 10% of the current Republican party, including you.

That, of course, is the official position of the leftists but it is hog wash! Not all community organizers are communists, but the ones who sit on a panel of commies to discuss a play about a commie sure are.

 

[gabriel]

with commies. try again

 

[OldGaffer]

That, of course, is the official position of the leftists but it is hog wash! Not all community organizers are communists, but the ones who sit on a panel of commies to discuss a play about a commie sure are.

View attachment 699

You evidence is underwhelming, in fact it is non-existant. Check Hillarys Clintons 2008 platform and Obamas 2008 platform, then get back with me on the difference, especially the positions that Obama is left of Hillary. You got nothin but rhetoric, like Degs says, facts matter, and you generally enter a discussion with lots of talk but very few actual facts.

 

[Saladin2]

Saul Alinsky???...Too funny..Is this some middle-aged guy with glasses that Glenn Beck is out saying will bring the downfall of America?.....

 

[Woolleybugger]

You know what is so incredible about this concept? That it assumes that each person stands alone without the help, money and effort of the greater nation as a whole. It is an idea that is steeped in US history and legend. The family that moves West, settles a piece of land and makes a go of it. The immigrant that comes to New York, takes a bed in a basement in Queens, works the night shift and starts Walmart or becomes the head of US Steel. Its a mythology that we support in classrooms all across the nation. We see it in movies, in books, in our statements about exceptionalism. It is almost the very fabric of what we are all taught in regards to what made America great. Funny how we never really covered the topic of genocide of native Americans and the wholesale plunder of a vast continent. Never seem to acknowledge the continued de facto slavery in the South and in the manufacturing plants after the Civil War and industrialization era. We may have read some books like the Jungle or Grapes of Wrath but we never really were taught that they described a life for millions that was hellish and destitute as a way of life. Never really do we grasp the massive transformation that the GI bill and unions made for the middle class. Nor do we understand the tariffs that kept us isolated from competition. We don't acknowledge the role that progressive taxation made upon our national and local governments unleashing countless billions for public works, public education and the common good. So many on the left grasp these central truths and say that we did the right thing. Folks on the right that benefited from all this are almost ashamed to admit it so they hide behind their fantasies about the past in order to keep their pride intact. But why do they need to believe they are alone working in a faceless economy that does nothing for the commons and exists only as a vehicle for self-achievement? Is it because they cannot admit to themselves that they did not do it alone? That everything they have ever done was within a set of parameters first defined by race, class and family? If they admitted it, their self-worth would plummet, it would crumble in a pile of broken stories told to them by their parents and their leaders. This is the divide between the parties deep down. The left sees the value of a nation as a tool for the common good which means the individual can make it if he or she works together to achieve something honorable. The right tolerates the idea that we are a common people just long enough to sustain their myths and then they cast it aside like a thankless child forsakes a giving family.

 

[Lukey]

You evidence is underwhelming, in fact it is non-existant. Check Hillarys Clintons 2008 platform and Obamas 2008 platform, then get back with me on the difference, especially the positions that Obama is left of Hillary. You got nothin but rhetoric, like Degs says, facts matter, and you generally enter a discussion with lots of talk but very few actual facts.

You mean like the fact that there's very little difference between Obama's agenda and that of the Communist Party USA? I know what Degs says, and it's usually obfuscation and BS. Go read up on Marx's "dictatorship of the proletariat" and then get back to ME on the "difference" between that and Obama's "vision" for an America.

 

[Lukey]

no we cant agree. he meant those who want a laissez faire economy that has no social safety nets.

No one is pushing that. What we are pushing is a backing away from the entitlement society Obama has built and moving us back toward a society where there is more focus on personal responsibility and industriousness.