A World Without Work

[georgephillip]

It's coming.
Predictions like 47% of current US jobs at risk of elimination due to automation or Artificial Intelligence mean we are about to confront a dilemma unique in human history: the separation of labor and subsistence.
http://rdwolff.com/content/prof-wolff-david-pakman-show-will-automation-end-full-employment

"The U.S. labor force has been shaped by millennia of technological progress.

"Agricultural technology birthed the farming industry, the industrial revolution moved people into factories, and then globalization and automation moved them back out, giving rise to a nation of services.

"But throughout these reshufflings, the total number of jobs has always increased.

"What may be looming is something different: an era of technological unemployment, in which computer scientists and software engineers essentially invent us out of work, and the total number of jobs declines steadily and permanently.

"This fear is not new.

"The hope that machines might free us from toil has always been intertwined with the fear that they will rob us of our agency.

"In the midst of the Great Depression, the economist John Maynard Keynes forecast that technological progress might allow a 15-hour workweek, and abundant leisure, by 2030."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/world-without-work/395294/

According to the ~10 minute interview with Richard Wolff in the first link, Switzerland and Finland have already begun experimenting with disconnecting work from income.

Voluntary work?

20-25 hours of work per week?

Ready for the Good News?

Mass leisure and the freedom that brings will require suspending the profit motive in human commerce

 

[georgephillip]

"For much of the 20th century, Youngstown’s steel mills delivered such great prosperity that the city was a model of the American dream, boasting a median income and a homeownership rate that were among the nation’s highest.

"But as manufacturing shifted abroad after World War II, Youngstown steel suffered, and on that gray September afternoon in 1977, Youngstown Sheet and Tube announced the shuttering of its Campbell Works mill.

"Within five years, the city lost 50,000 jobs and $1.3 billion in manufacturing wages. The effect was so severe that a term was coined to describe the fallout: regional depression..."

“'Youngstown’s story is America’s story, because it shows that when jobs go away, the cultural cohesion of a place is destroyed,' says John Russo, a professor of labor studies at Youngstown State University. 'The cultural breakdown matters even more than the economic breakdown...'”

"If John Russo is right, then saving work is more important than saving any particular job. Industriousness has served as America’s unofficial religion since its founding. The sanctity and preeminence of work lie at the heart of the country’s politics, economics, and social interactions. What might happen if work goes away?"

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/world-without-work/395294/

 

[Max R.]

Needless fear-mongering. For one thing, according to Mitt Romney, 47% are living off the other 53% anyway. Instead of factory workers, engineers and mechanics, we'd have a large population of street musicians, artists and poets living off the government tit. A [Unwelcome language removed] Socialist paradise!

 

[georgephillip]

Needless fear-mongering. For one thing, according to Mitt Romney, 47% are living off the other 53% anyway. Instead of factory workers, engineers and mechanics, we'd have a large population of street musicians, artists and poets living off the government tit. A [Unwelcome language removed] Socialist paradise!

Mitt (Money) Romney?
Rhymes with rich

"This fear is not new.

"The hope that machines might free us from toil has always been intertwined with the fear that they will rob us of our agency.

"In the midst of the Great Depression, the economist John Maynard Keynes forecast that technological progress might allow a 15-hour workweek, and abundant leisure, by 2030.

"But around the same time, President Herbert Hoover received a letter warning that industrial technology was a 'Frankenstein monster' that threatened to upend manufacturing, 'devouring our civilization.' (The letter came from the mayor of Palo Alto, of all places.)

"In 1962, President John F. Kennedy said, 'If men have the talent to invent new machines that put men out of work, they have the talent to put those men back to work.'

"But two years later, a committee of scientists and social activists sent an open letter to President Lyndon B. Johnson arguing that 'the cybernation revolution' would create 'a separate nation of the poor, the unskilled, the jobless,' who would be unable either to find work or to afford life’s necessities.'"
Cybernation revolution???

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/world-without-work/395294/

 

[georgephillip]

Cybernation Revolution...and MLK

"Overview[edit]

The statement identified three revolutions underway in the world: the cybernation revolution of increasing automation; the weaponry revolution of mutually assured destruction; and the human rights revolution.

"It discussed primarily the cybernation revolution.

"The committee claimed that machines would usher in 'a system of almost unlimited productive capacity' while continually reducing the number of manual laborers needed, and increasing the skill needed to work, thereby producing increasing levels of unemployment.

"It proposed that the government should ease this transformation through large-scale public works, low-cost housing, public transit, electrical power development, income redistribution, union representation for the unemployed, and government restraint on technology deployment.

"Legacy[edit]
"Martin Luther King, Jr.'s final Sunday sermon, 'Remaining Awake Through a Great Revolution,' delivered days before his assassination, explicitly references the thesis of 'The Triple Revolution':[2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triple_Revolution#Overview

 

[resident_evil]

Those who learn to leverage robots and AI will have jobs. The fruits of their labor will be magnified and plenty will suppress inflation and maybe even decrease prices. People will then have the opportunity to become serious about life and try for real and effective ecological conservation and scientific study of the great treasure chests of life.

Human minds will be liberated to create great art, math, science, and discovery of our planetary system. Ideas implemented will rule the world.

 

[Fast Eddy]

This in my mind may be the biggest problem of the 21st century. government predicts that robotics will remove 40% of existing jobs in the next 15 years. In addition there is an AI explosion about to occur and white coll or jobs will be at risk for the first time.

With all the automation, new jobs are not being created as they once were, so its not clear where jobs will come from if anywhere.

We are about 47% of the People getting government money and with the trend it will soon be over 60%, just where does the money come from. this is unsustainable and everything will soon crash if an answer isn't found.

 

[Max R.]

This in my mind may be the biggest problem of the 21st century. government predicts that robotics will remove 40% of existing jobs in the next 15 years. In addition there is an AI explosion about to occur and white coll or jobs will be at risk for the first time.

With all the automation, new jobs are not being created as they once were, so its not clear where jobs will come from if anywhere.

We are about 47% of the People getting government money and with the trend it will soon be over 60%, just where does the money come from. this is unsustainable and everything will soon crash if an answer isn't found.

After the crash, if it happens, there will be plenty of jobs as soon as all the yelling, screaming and mayhem die down.

 

[Queen Titania]

This in my mind may be the biggest problem of the 21st century. government predicts that robotics will remove 40% of existing jobs in the next 15 years. In addition there is an AI explosion about to occur and white coll or jobs will be at risk for the first time.

With all the automation, new jobs are not being created as they once were, so its not clear where jobs will come from if anywhere.

We are about 47% of the People getting government money and with the trend it will soon be over 60%, just where does the money come from. this is unsustainable and everything will soon crash if an answer isn't found.

I have a theory that - if everyone walked out of their jobs tomorrow --- everyone. And then everyone took up the jobs that they would love to do - that the World would run smoothly because there really are people who are fascinated by even sewerage ;-)

The whole pack of cards is crumbling because of the lack of love and excellence. Never ever in mans History has 'our most excellent' been out of the equation until now --- it will fail and quite soon, I imagine. Mediocrity does not sustain us, it is so unsatisfying and the spirit has always proved to be stronger --- eh?

 

[Queen Titania]

This in my mind may be the biggest problem of the 21st century. government predicts that robotics will remove 40% of existing jobs in the next 15 years. In addition there is an AI explosion about to occur and white coll or jobs will be at risk for the first time.

With all the automation, new jobs are not being created as they once were, so its not clear where jobs will come from if anywhere.

We are about 47% of the People getting government money and with the trend it will soon be over 60%, just where does the money come from. this is unsustainable and everything will soon crash if an answer isn't found.

We should take up hobbies and have an alternative society running along side 'theirs'.

 

[Max R.]

We should take up hobbies and have an alternative society running along side 'theirs'.

I'm already doing the job I want. Why not you?

One of the secrets to happiness is contentment; the lack of want. Another is to recognize we all only have one life to live so we should each focus on living with our individual lives minute-by-minute, day-by-day.

http://observer.com/2015/07/the-secret-to-happiness-is-ten-specific-behaviors/

https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy?language=en

 

[Queen Titania]

I'm already doing the job I want. Why not you?

One of the secrets to happiness is contentment; the lack of want. Another is to recognize we all only have one life to live so we should each focus on living with our individual lives minute-by-minute, day-by-day.

http://observer.com/2015/07/the-secret-to-happiness-is-ten-specific-behaviors/

https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy?language=en

Lol ---- Oh right it is all about you, isn't it Max?

<shakes head>

 

[Max R.]

Lol ---- Oh right it is all about you, isn't it Max?

<shakes head>

For me, yes. For you, it should be all about you living your life as happily as you can be instead of spreading your misery to others like spoiled child throwing a tantrum because their mother wouldn't buy them a particular toy.

 

[Queen Titania]

For me, yes. For you, it should be all about you living your life as happily as you can be instead of spreading your misery to others like spoiled child throwing a tantrum because their mother wouldn't buy them a particular toy.

Funnily enough - my mother, if she were still alive, would tell you that as a child when asked what I would like when out shopping usually said 'nothing, I don't want anything' she could never make me out. - I never was one for possessions really. Possessions do not bring happiness. As for tantrums ---- looooooooooooooool me? That really is funny. My Aunts will tell you that I was the kindest child they ever knew ---- fings might have changed a wee bit through the hurly burly of life --- but I am quite a good natured happy fun loving person through it all - and it is that which makes me cry out for the lack, I see of it, in our world today -


But back to my theory of - a smooth running world, with Max's massive ego taken out of the equation.

 

[Max R.]

Funnily enough - my mother, if she were still alive, would tell you that as a child when asked what I would like when out shopping usually said 'nothing, I don't want anything' she could never make me out. - I never was one for possessions really. Possessions do not bring happiness. As for tantrums ---- looooooooooooooool me? That really is funny. My Aunts will tell you that I was the kindest child they ever knew ---- fings might have changed a wee bit through the hurly burly of life --- but I am quite a good natured happy fun loving person through it all - and it is that which makes me cry out for the lack, I see of it, in our world today -


But back to my theory of - a smooth running world, with Max's massive ego taken out of the equation.

Correct possessions don't bring happiness. Obviously this excludes necessities such as food, water and shelter.

If your aunts were correct about you being "the kindest child they ever knew" then I have to ask "What happened?" because I fail to see the kindness. Example your constant belittling of others with comments such as "Max's massive ego taken out of the equation", your hatred of Jews and your support for fascists disproves you are the epitome of kindness.

 

[georgephillip]

We are about 47% of the People getting government money and with the trend it will soon be over 60%, just where does the money come from. this is unsustainable and everything will soon crash if an answer isn't found.

I think the answer depends on separating GDP (production, expenditure, and income) from the profit motive. Some recent figures on US income inequality reveal the richest 20 citizens now have acquired more wealth than the poorest 160,000,000 US citizens. The answer to your valid question "just where does the money come" is: the money comes from society. Under the current economic system, those who "own" the means of production are entitled to the lion's share of increasing productivity. IMHO, that is what will have to change to prevent the next crash.

 

[georgephillip]

Those who learn to leverage robots and AI will have jobs. The fruits of their labor will be magnified and plenty will suppress inflation and maybe even decrease prices. People will then have the opportunity to become serious about life and try for real and effective ecological conservation and scientific study of the great treasure chests of life.

Human minds will be liberated to create great art, math, science, and discovery of our planetary system. Ideas implemented will rule the world.

"Legacy[edit]

"Martin Luther King, Jr.'s final Sunday sermon, 'Remaining Awake Through a Great Revolution,' delivered days before his assassination, explicitly references the thesis of 'The Triple Revolution':[2][3]

"There can be no gainsaying of the fact that a great revolution is taking place in the world today.

"In a sense it is a triple revolution: that is, a technological revolution, with the impact of automation and cybernation; then there is a revolution in weaponry, with the emergence of atomic and nuclear weapons of warfare; then there is a human rights revolution, with the freedom explosion that is taking place all over the world.

"Yes, we do live in a period where changes are taking place. And there is still the voice crying through the vista of time saying, 'Behold, I make all things new; former things are passed away.'
 Martin Luther King, Jr., Remaining Awake Through a Great Revolution"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triple_Revolution#Legacy

 

[Queen Titania]

Correct possessions don't bring happiness. Obviously this excludes necessities such as food, water and shelter.

If your aunts were correct about you being "the kindest child they ever knew" then I have to ask "What happened?" because I fail to see the kindness. Example your constant belittling of others with comments such as "Max's massive ego taken out of the equation", your hatred of Jews and your support for fascists disproves you are the epitome of kindness.

1 Truth is not, in and of itself, unkind.

2 I do not hate Jews.

 

[Max R.]

1 Truth is not, in and of itself, unkind.

2 I do not hate Jews.

1. Correct. However it can be delivered with kindness and without. You specialize in "without".

2. Bullshit. Your constant hatred for "Zionists" is just code for "[Unwelcome language removed] Jews". And why not? Your heroes in the Third Reich hated them too.

 

[georgephillip]

This in my mind may be the biggest problem of the 21st century. government predicts that robotics will remove 40% of existing jobs in the next 15 years. In addition there is an AI explosion about to occur and white coll or jobs will be at risk for the first time.

"Futurists and science-fiction writers have at times looked forward to machines’ workplace takeover with a kind of giddy excitement, imagining the banishment of drudgery and its replacement by expansive leisure and almost limitless personal freedom.

"And make no mistake: if the capabilities of computers continue to multiply while the price of computing continues to decline, that will mean a great many of life’s necessities and luxuries will become ever cheaper, and it will mean great wealth—at least when aggregated up to the level of the national economy."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/world-without-work/395294/

The big question is how the great wealth will be distributed, according to the need of the many or profit for a lucky few?