Another one bites the dust...

[Raoul_Luke]

Where were those testing positive forced on nursing homes? Yet another lie. In fact, those patients were being released from hospitals because they were well enough to go home and their homes were nursing homes. Where else were they to go?

I had covid last August. I tested negative for two days after first feeling symptoms. The third day I was positive. Luckily, I'd been vaxed and the symptoms were mild. I checked into a hotel for a week and wore a mask everywhere I went...which was usually to a drive up window to get meds and dinner. The reason I got covid? Because I let my guard down and traveled without wearing a mask.

The old "there was nothing else we could do" defense. For one, they could have put them into the temporary hospital beds Trump provided that were never used. Secondly, if it were me, I'd have organized a rotation of patients so that certain facilities were designated as Covid and others non-covid. Or converted unused hotels into temporary health care facilities using military health personnel and volunteers from among the millions of retired nurses and doctors for housing them. Putting Covid-positive people in nursing homes was criminally negligent homicide.

Your anecdotes are not really data. LOL! You actually didn't wear a mask? Whatever, it was, after all, your choice. No reason to mandate it on those of us who can read the data and know that masks help very little or not at all, as well as the fact that 99+% of us can take our chances and be, you know, better off for having it, now that what I told you a year ago has been proven - natural immunity is superior to vaccination.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

There are the comparisons between counties, states, and countries that adopted comparatively sensible policies and those that did it more your way. Explain away the vast disparities in outcome that were so highly correlated with policy. Note also that for your conspiracy theory to be true would require basically throwing out every discovery about infectious disease made since the Renaissance.

The data doesn't support any of that.

 

[middleview]

The old "there was nothing else we could do" defense. For one, they could have put them into the temporary hospital beds Trump provided that were never used. Secondly, if it were me, I'd have organized a rotation of patients so that certain facilities were designated as Covid and others non-covid. Or converted unused hotels into temporary health care facilities using military health personnel and volunteers from among the millions of retired nurses and doctors for housing them. Putting Covid-positive people in nursing homes was criminally negligent homicide.

Your anecdotes are not really data. LOL! You actually didn't wear a mask? Whatever, it was, after all, your choice. No reason to mandate it on those of us who can read the data and know that masks help very little or not at all, as well as the fact that 99+% of us can take our chances and be, you know, better off for having it, now that what I told you a year ago has been proven - natural immunity is superior to vaccination.

The people being sent home were not testing positive. Their homes were nursing homes where they were living when they contracted covid.

I got covid last August, when I thought the danger had passed. I let my guard down.

 

[as seen on tv]

Just a week after the last nail was driven into the coffin of "mask mandates:"

'Gold standard' scientific study finds masks are useless against COVID (msn.com)

The case for mandatory vaccination of everyone, even those with natural immunity, blows up in the lefts' faces:

Post-infection protection—known widely as natural immunity—was strong and remained significant over time, researchers found. Against the Wuhan, Alpha, and Delta variants, the protection against re-infection was 85 percent at four weeks, 78 percent at 40 weeks, and 55.5 percent at 80 weeks.

That protection dropped more quickly against the Omicron BA.1 subvariant, declining to 36 percent by 40 weeks, and protection against symptomatic disease also waned below 50 percent.

But shielding against severe disease was strong against all strains, including the BA.1 subvariant, researchers found. The naturally immune enjoyed 88.9 percent protection against BA.1 at 40 weeks, which was actually higher than against earlier strains.


Dr. Brett Giroir, a former Trump administration health official whose post on natural immunity was censored by Twitter on behalf of Pfizer board member Dr. Scott Gottlieb, said the study “demonstrates robustness of natural immunity.”

Dr. Vinay Prasad, an epidemiologist at the University of California, San Francisco who was also not involved in the study, said that the paper made a “compelling case that we can effectively stop boosting average risk individuals (most adults) who have had covid.”

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

This in the face of solid evidence that the vast majority of people (especially the young and middle aged) faced only a minute risk of death from covid:

View attachment 74055



It is clear from the SCIENCE that the physicians and scientists who authored the Great Barrington Declaration, as well as the Swedish government, both of which I put forth repeatedly as counter arguments to the pro-mandate crowd here, were 100% spot on!

But I won't hold my breath waiting for the Board's mandate mavens to line up here to admit I was right and they were wrong from the get go.

If masks protected anyone, then half of all elderly nursing home patients wouldnt have died so quickly.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

The people being sent home were not testing positive. Their homes were nursing homes where they were living when they contracted covid.

I got covid last August, when I thought the danger had passed. I let my guard down.

You should try researching before you post:

Nursing Homes in Some States Told to Take Patients Infected With Coronavirus - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

And you survived, despite your advanced age. More proof that 99+% of us were not at risk of dying from Covid-19. Your entire belief system surrounding Covid-19 is a gross over-reaction.

 

[middleview]

You should try researching before you post:

Nursing Homes in Some States Told to Take Patients Infected With Coronavirus - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

And you survived, despite your advanced age. More proof that 99+% of us were not at risk of dying from Covid-19. Your entire belief system surrounding Covid-19 is a gross over-reaction.

I was vaccinated and had booster shots.

Can't read the Times without buying a subscription.

 

[middleview]

You should try researching before you post:

Nursing Homes in Some States Told to Take Patients Infected With Coronavirus - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

And you survived, despite your advanced age. More proof that 99+% of us were not at risk of dying from Covid-19. Your entire belief system surrounding Covid-19 is a gross over-reaction.

Mr. Michael Dowling, CEO, Northwell Health, said: "This important data-based study confirms what we saw in our own facilities and around the state --that when the virus hit our local communities, it quickly spread through asymptomatic carriers into our nursing homes, hospitals, places of worship and other congregate settings. This study highlighted a critically important fact that the overwhelming majority of hospital patients sent back into nursing homes were not only medically stable, they were no longer contagious, and that 81 percent of the nursing homes receiving COVID patients from New York's hospitals already had the virus. This rigorous, fact-driven analysis provides critical insight as we move forward into the next phase of this pandemic and continue to look for new ways to improve health outcomes for patients."

New York State Department of Health Issues Report On COVID-19 In Nursing Homes

www.health.ny.gov

 

[middleview]

If masks protected anyone, then half of all elderly nursing home patients wouldnt have died so quickly.

Are you a doctor? Medical professional? Scientist doing research on epidemiology?

If not, I think I'll take the advice of those who are.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

Mr. Michael Dowling, CEO, Northwell Health, said: "This important data-based study confirms what we saw in our own facilities and around the state --that when the virus hit our local communities, it quickly spread through asymptomatic carriers into our nursing homes, hospitals, places of worship and other congregate settings. This study highlighted a critically important fact that the overwhelming majority of hospital patients sent back into nursing homes were not only medically stable, they were no longer contagious, and that 81 percent of the nursing homes receiving COVID patients from New York's hospitals already had the virus. This rigorous, fact-driven analysis provides critical insight as we move forward into the next phase of this pandemic and continue to look for new ways to improve health outcomes for patients."

New York State Department of Health Issues Report On COVID-19 In Nursing Homes

www.health.ny.gov

From your link:

New York State Department of Health Issues Report On COVID-19 In Nursing Homes
Data Indicates COVID-19 Was Introduced Into Nursing Homes by Infected Staff
Report Documents That Peak Staff Infections Correlates With Peak Nursing Home Resident Deaths


Wait, what? Weren't the staff all wearing masks???

You can't have it both ways. Do masks work, or don't they?

 

[middleview]

From your link:

New York State Department of Health Issues Report On COVID-19 In Nursing Homes
Data Indicates COVID-19 Was Introduced Into Nursing Homes by Infected Staff
Report Documents That Peak Staff Infections Correlates With Peak Nursing Home Resident Deaths


Wait, what? Weren't the staff all wearing masks???

You can't have it both ways. Do masks work, or don't they?

1. Do we actually know how consistent the staff members were? My mother in law was in a nursing home. The staff was not well trained and it is anyone's best guess as to how careful they were.
2. My uncle died in the hospital in the early days of the pandemic...January 2020. He had just been in the ICU after surgery and got Covid there. It was before people really knew much about it. Remember, at first they didn't know it was airborne.

In any case, let's deal with one thing at a time. Do you now agree that the people being sent to Nursing Homes were being released from hospital after being treated for Covid and were returning to their homes?

 

[middleview]

Yeah, Dr Wen as well:

Dr. Leana Wen slammed after admitting there's been 'overcounting' of COVID deaths: ‘TWO AND A HALF YEARS LATE’ | Fox News

But not one single lefty here. They pretend none of this (solid scientific evidence that the covid policies they supported were a bunch of tin horn authoritarian hooey) exists.

My uncle had covid, was hospitalized and released when he tested negative. He went home and two days later had a heart attack and passed away...

Cause of death was heart attack...but covid certainly put a strain on his heart...

The point being that it went both ways. Someone who died at home, without an autopsy would probably be counted as natural causes...but could well have been covid.

 

[middleview]

Which says what, exactly? That you covid authoritarians should imprison and torture anyone who fails to "follow guidance about wearing masks?" The idea that this "Review" backs up your position on masking is laughable.

You must have missed this part:

Medical or surgical masks

Ten studies took place in the community, and two studies in healthcare workers. Compared with wearing no mask in the community studies only, wearing a mask may make little to no difference in how many people caught a flu‐like illness/COVID‐like illness (9 studies; 276,917 people); and probably makes little or no difference in how many people have flu/COVID confirmed by a laboratory test (6 studies; 13,919 people). Unwanted effects were rarely reported; discomfort was mentioned.

N95/P2 respirators

Four studies were in healthcare workers, and one small study was in the community. Compared with wearing medical or surgical masks, wearing N95/P2 respirators probably makes little to no difference in how many people have confirmed flu (5 studies; 8407 people); and may make little to no difference in how many people catch a flu‐like illness (5 studies; 8407 people), or respiratory illness (3 studies; 7799 people). Unwanted effects were not well‐reported; discomfort was mentioned.

The bottom line is that mask mandates do not work - on that the data is clear. Masking may or may not work, and, if so, it is probably to an insignificant extent. Certainly I am not advocating that we pass a law that prevents anyone from choosing to mask up. So feel free to do so. Unlike you, I do not believe I have the right to control my fellow citizens.

Here is a very detailed analysis of the Cochrane review of studies related to masks. It describes exactly why many of the studies the Cochrane folks used were inappropriate to mask usage during Covid, because the study was done before the pandemic and was really focused on flu and colds.

Some researchers agree that randomized controlled trials don’t currently show clear-cut evidence that masks and respirators reduce the wearer’s odds of getting sick. But, they argue, RCTs may not actually be the best source of evidence for determining whether masks confer protection. “Strictly speaking, they’re correct that there’s no statistically significant effect,” said Ben Cowling, an epidemiologist at the University of Hong Kong whose research is cited in the Cochrane review. “But when you look at the totality of evidence, I think there’s a pretty good indication that masks can protect people when they wear them.”

Do Masks Work? Yes. No. Maybe.

A recent review from a prominent scientific source has reignited a polarized debate over masks. There are no easy answers.

undark.org

 

[Raoul_Luke]

Here is a very detailed analysis of the Cochrane review of studies related to masks. It describes exactly why many of the studies the Cochrane folks used were inappropriate to mask usage during Covid, because the study was done before the pandemic and was really focused on flu and colds.

Some researchers agree that randomized controlled trials don’t currently show clear-cut evidence that masks and respirators reduce the wearer’s odds of getting sick. But, they argue, RCTs may not actually be the best source of evidence for determining whether masks confer protection. “Strictly speaking, they’re correct that there’s no statistically significant effect,” said Ben Cowling, an epidemiologist at the University of Hong Kong whose research is cited in the Cochrane review. “But when you look at the totality of evidence, I think there’s a pretty good indication that masks can protect people when they wear them.”

Do Masks Work? Yes. No. Maybe.

A recent review from a prominent scientific source has reignited a polarized debate over masks. There are no easy answers.

undark.org

LOL! First off, let the record show the use of an "appeal to authority" argument - some "expert" admits that the "gold standard" review of numerous studies shows "no statistically significant effect" but then says "I think there's a pretty good indication that masks can protect people who wear them" and to you that overrules the "gold standard" of scientific review. Where is his data? Where are his studies? RCTs have for 100 years been the best way to test scientific theories and now all of a sudden the maskaholics have decided they suck? That is laughable.

 

[middleview]

LOL! First off, let the record show the use of an "appeal to authority" argument - some "expert" admits that the "gold standard" review of numerous studies shows "no statistically significant effect" but then says "I think there's a pretty good indication that masks can protect people who wear them" and to you that overrules the "gold standard" of scientific review. Where is his data? Where are his studies? RCTs have for 100 years been the best way to test scientific theories and now all of a sudden the maskaholics have decided they suck? That is laughable.

So you chose to ignore the link...it did cite a study that showed in a controlled study there was evidence of a positive result by wearing n95 masks.

 

[PhilFish]

LOL! First off, let the record show the use of an "appeal to authority" argument - some "expert" admits that the "gold standard" review of numerous studies shows "no statistically significant effect" but then says "I think there's a pretty good indication that masks can protect people who wear them" and to you that overrules the "gold standard" of scientific review. Where is his data? Where are his studies? RCTs have for 100 years been the best way to test scientific theories and now all of a sudden the maskaholics have decided they suck? That is laughable.

Lol. Nah. Once you eliminate your zero sum nonsense..the data is absolutely accurate
No ..masks aren't 100% a defense against covid. Never were

 

[Dawg]

My uncle had covid, was hospitalized and released when he tested negative. He went home and two days later had a heart attack and passed away...

Cause of death was heart attack...but covid certainly put a strain on his heart...

The point being that it went both ways. Someone who died at home, without an autopsy would probably be counted as natural causes...but could well have been covid.

"could have well been covid"
At your age it means your Uncle was much older than you
so it could have well not been covid and just a heart attack as reported

Covid paid $$$$$$$$$$ heart attacks didn't

 

[middleview]

"could have well been covid"
At your age it means your Uncle was much older than you
so it could have well not been covid and just a heart attack as reported

Covid paid $$$$$$$$$$ heart attacks didn't

A hospital back then may have been paid for my uncle's treatment at a higher rate, due to ICU time... They don't make more money if he dies from Covid.

One uncle died in the hospital in the very early days of Covid, the other died in 2021, a few days after leaving the hospital for Covid treatment.

Neither one was listed as having died from Covid....even though my cardiac surgeon says the likelihood that Covid was a major factor was obvious. Respiratory problems resulting from Covid are a huge tax on your heart.

 

[middleview]

LOL! First off, let the record show the use of an "appeal to authority" argument - some "expert" admits that the "gold standard" review of numerous studies shows "no statistically significant effect" but then says "I think there's a pretty good indication that masks can protect people who wear them" and to you that overrules the "gold standard" of scientific review. Where is his data? Where are his studies? RCTs have for 100 years been the best way to test scientific theories and now all of a sudden the maskaholics have decided they suck? That is laughable.

So somehow, my source is an "appeal to authority" but Cochrane is not?

About Undark

Undark is a non-profit, editorially independent digital magazine exploring the intersection of science and society. It is published with generous funding from the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, through its Knight Science Journalism Fellowship Program at MIT.

Cochrane did not conduct any studies. They evaluated the research of others. In a number of the studies they looked at were done long before the epidemic.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

So somehow, my source is an "appeal to authority" but Cochrane is not?

About Undark

Undark is a non-profit, editorially independent digital magazine exploring the intersection of science and society. It is published with generous funding from the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, through its Knight Science Journalism Fellowship Program at MIT.

Cochrane did not conduct any studies. They evaluated the research of others. In a number of the studies they looked at were done long before the epidemic.

LOL! What "study" did your "expert" cite? As I recall he said he "thinks" there is a "pretty good indication that masks work." You suggested that, because he is an "authority," his "thinking" should overrule a review of MULTIPLE actual, you know, studies?

 

[middleview]

LOL! What "study" did your "expert" cite? As I recall he said he "thinks" there is a "pretty good indication that masks work." You suggested that, because he is an "authority," his "thinking" should overrule a review of MULTIPLE actual, you know, studies?

The article I linked to should have helped understand the issues with those studies that Cochrane reviewed. Unless you follow people around to see that they are properly wearing the mask, washing their hands, getting vaccinated... Are they also going indoors to crowded spaces?

There are simply too many factors. The study I linked to in another thread showed the reduction in particulate matter when a mask is worn properly. It simply stands to reason that if someone with covid is not pumping out the virus when they breathe, it is a positive aspect to wearing a mask. If they are wearing a gator or clothe mask, the results are going to show that the mask didn't help.

This was a study reference in that article.

https://journals.asm.org/doi/epub/10.1128/mSphere.00637-20