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Bush's Third Term

Arkady

President
Here's a fascinating article drawing parallels between Obama and Bush:

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/09/bushs_approach_to_social_insurance_still_rules/

Most of us are already familiar with glaring similarities between the two politicians when it comes to the police state and permanent war. Both like the idea of the government being able to spy on its own citizens without the need for independent judicial warrants. Both want the president to be able to lock people up for as long as he desires without a warrant (though Obama is using that power a little less, since he sometimes just kills people without a warrant, instead). Both favored spectacularly bloated military budgets, five times the size of any other nation's. Both involved the country in a foreign war with a Muslim nation. Both favor saber-rattling with Iran and North Korea, and no-strings-attached support of Israel. Both abused the state-secrets doctrine to avoid oversight (though, in Bush's defense, he wasn't as eager to prosecute whistle blowers as spies as Obama is). Both have waged war on recreational drug users, even in states where the drugs are legal (though, in Bush's defense, he went after the medical dispensaries only, not the medical users, in such states, unlike Obama does). But the article I linked to looks at insurance policy, where the similarities may be more surprising.

Both Bush and Obama created a hugely expensive healthcare benefit (Bush with Medicare Part D, Obama with Obamacare). And both did so in a way consciously designed to increase the profitability of our hyper-profitable private healthcare industry, rather than expanding on the far more efficient policies of the New Deal and Great Society (or mimicking successful policies in other wealthy nations). Bush did that by including a ban on the government negotiating drug prices for Medicare recipients, resulting in taxpayers overpaying private corporations by at least 58% for Medicare Part D drugs. Obama did it by creating a mandate to buy private health insurance, without providing for a public option, or any of the other strategies successful nations have used to keep their healthcare costs so much lower than ours.

That's not the only parallel on the insurance front, either. Bush and Obama both started their second terms by attempting to cut Social Security (Bush with privatization, Obama with a COLA adjustment that would erode Social Security benefits progressively over time, primarily to the detriment of the young). As the article rightly points out, Obama's move is back-door privatization, since any decrease in the real value of Social Security benefits means a greater share of retirement saving has to be done in the private sector, where Wall Street rentiers can collect their fat cut of the contributions. Bush was more ambitious -- trying to end Social Security as we know it all at once-- but Obama is moving us in the same direction, with his characteristic gradualism.

It's interesting that Bush and Obama both waited until their second terms to attack Social Security. That's likely because such attacks are wildly unpopular. According to the article, only 16% of voters support the chained-CPI move that Obama is trying to push on them, and Bush's privatization scheme was similarly unpopular. Making more than a token push for such unpopular moves in one's first term would be politically suicidal, but in the second term a president is free to work for the 1%, against the American people, and thus win himself and those he loves the gratitude of the monied class. I'm sure Obama's daughters will find people throwing any job they want at them, when they come of age, no matter how unqualified they may be. If they want to be "journalists" the big corporate media will make it happen. If they want six-figure starting jobs on Wall Street, they're welcome to them. Ask the Bush girls and Chelsea Clinton how that works. Sell out your fellow citizens, as president, and you'll get a lot more than thirty pieces of silver in return. The plutocracy remembers who its friends are.
 
As you can see from Gordo's sad little reply, the Obama Human Shield Brigade's brainwashed mentality is nearly impossible to break. They will go on defending Bush's policies under Obama until the end of time.
 
most people who have followed medicare part D will remind you that this was drafted by congress, and bush neither encouraged nor celebrated its passage.

if you want to look for more appropriate parallels between obama and bush, google terms like "gitmo", "troop surge", "muslim attitudes toward america", and "pentagon overspending"
 
Both Bush and Obama created a hugely expensive healthcare benefit (Bush with Medicare Part D, Obama with Obamacare).

But only one presented a plan for paying for it. That's the part that takes a little political courage, especially in one's first term. Bush's plan was hardly mentioned in his second run. Obama's was the keystone of their platform....because he wanted to pay for it.

I totally agree with your criticism of Obama bargaining with SS instead of fortifying it. That is a betrayal, plain and simple. The only solution I can see is to kill in the midterms. Right now he's trying to avoid a perceived legacy of getting nothing done. If he's empowered by majorities, maybe he'd start pursuing one with a strategy of building one he's proud of.

Naturally, I am also disappointed that he's been just one more cowardly hypocrite in the war on marijuana. It will be just a coincidence if that becomes a political liability while he's still in office. Being too late onto the bandwagon isn't a good look for anyone.
 
Except it was doubling down with Romney....and you almost never criticized Romney for fear of pissing off your ideological "friends" here.

Yep. I wasn't happy with Obama being my vote last year, but my only other realistic option was Romney, and Romney couldn't explain even a single policy difference between himself and bush, when pressed to do so. Obama may be nauseatingly close to Bush on a lot of issues, but he differs with him on more than a few, as well. So, my choice was between someone who replicated arguably the worst presidency in our history exactly, or someone who only did so partially. That was a surprisingly easy choice.
 
As you can see from Gordo's sad little reply, the Obama Human Shield Brigade's brainwashed mentality is nearly impossible to break. They will go on defending Bush's policies under Obama until the end of time.

You know, IF Obama had repealed the Patriot Act - signed an executive order immediately halting warantless wiretapping, VETOED NDAA, Dissolved Homeland Security Gestapo, and halted arming/financing al-quada rebels in Syria/Libya, I would have whole heartedly endorsed Obama over the McCain/BUSH cabal.
 
well, it's merely the good cop/bad cop routine crystallizing into reality for all to see dude.

As a long time critic of the "Big Dog" I see it as little more than a continuation of the tag teaming that started in many ways, with him and the DLC/Third Way BS he was a founding member of.

Let's not forget that if not for the Leminsky affair, BC had a plan for SS too that scandal derailed.
 
most people who have followed medicare part D will remind you that this was drafted by congress, and bush neither encouraged nor celebrated its passage.

You need to research the issue further:

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...thompson-says-he-had-nothing-do-provision-ba/

"Medical Part D was created by the Medicare Modernization Act, which also made other changes to Medicare. It was proposed by President George W. Bush, and Thompson was the administration’s point man on lobbying Congress to create it."

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...icare-prescription-drug-benefit-55365672.html

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tentrillion/etc/script.html

Direct quote from Bush:

"Now I'm honored and pleased to sign this historic piece of legislation, the Medicare Prescription Drug Improvement and Modernization Act of 2003."

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/healthcare/a/radio111205.htm

That whole article is Bush touting the prescription drug benefit, which he called "the greatest advance in health care for seniors and Americans with disabilities since the creation of Medicare 40 years ago."

I'm not sure who told you "Bush neither encouraged nor celebrated its passage." However, here's a piece of advice. REMEMBER who told you that. That was an unreliable source, and if you keep that in mind, you can prevent yourself from passing along bad information in the future.
 
Both Bush and Obama created a hugely expensive healthcare benefit (Bush with Medicare Part D, Obama with Obamacare).

But only one presented a plan for paying for it. That's the part that takes a little political courage, especially in one's first term. Bush's plan was hardly mentioned in his second run. Obama's was the keystone of their platform....because he wanted to pay for it.

I totally agree with your criticism of Obama bargaining with SS instead of fortifying it. That is a betrayal, plain and simple. The only solution I can see is to kill in the midterms. Right now he's trying to avoid a perceived legacy of getting nothing done. If he's empowered by majorities, maybe he'd start pursuing one with a strategy of building one he's proud of.

Naturally, I am also disappointed that he's been just one more cowardly hypocrite in the war on marijuana. It will be just a coincidence if that becomes a political liability while he's still in office. Being too late onto the bandwagon isn't a good look for anyone.

I agree with each of your points.
 
Which was the good part, refusing the Holocaust refugees or interning the Japanese-Americans?

Neither. I'd go with pulling us out of the Great Depression (left to him by three consecutive Republican administrations), defeating fascism, setting up the infrastructure and workforce improvements that allowed half a century of incredible economic growth, and creating the regulatory framework under which we avoided another Depression-level event until after generations of deregulation.
 
Considering all the anti-Obama sentiment, it is "a fascinating article"

While it offers to present another perspective, it also lacks perspectives.

"Obama did it by creating a mandate to buy private health insurance, without providing for a public option, or any of the other strategies successful nations have used to keep their healthcare costs so much lower than ours."

What is fascinating about the above statement is that what Obama "did" was to present a compromise in order to gain passage of the other parts of the law, which if understood, has provisions that have not yet kicked in yet, to lower the cost of health care, in a number of different ways, over the longer term, if not to merely set up a future realization of the need for a single payer system.

I find it fascinating that people seem to forget that the "mandate" was put in place as a compromise to the preferred single payer option. Once passed and during election time rhetoric, the "mandate" went to the SCOTUS backed by those of the party that voted for "Obamacare" because OF the "mandate" as it was preferable to them over a single payer option. While the article draws "parallels, it sure appears to leave out background for what on the surface, looks similar, but had different reasoning or causes behind the actions.

It's hard to argue against the idea that people will vote for those who represent them, in the executive position or any other position, but I will also mention that in a world where money buys influence, one cannot get elected to represent a constituency without spending huge sums of money to become elected, if for no other reason than to compete with the amount of money their opposition spends, each "party", especially in recent times, trying to either smear or set records on smears straight, if not damage control about what are not smears, but evidence with facts to back them up.

It is interesting to see the differences in the dynamics behind how and where the money has been raised for the various presidential races and the "success" or failure of each or either dynamic.

While there are people in this nation that would represent what could be called a "plutocracy", are huge sums of money that are the result of the cumulative collection of small amounts by a large sum number of people considered to be coming from a "plutocracy"?

My personal opinion is that corporations are not people and thus were never considered to have the same "rights" as the humans that create them. To consider such, seems to suggest that a whole new and additional portion of American society suddenly comes into existence and some people, by virtue of their employment or ownership, are able to have more of a voice or more "freedom of speech" than others. This if one considers that "free speech" for the purposes of and in times of elections, in modern society, where mass media is the avenue for broadcasting "free speech" to more than those within physical earshot can hear, is not "free" in a monetary sense.

Can one who has only their voice and a soapbox claim to have as much "free speech" as someone who can pay for millions of dollars of political ads to be run on numerous mass media networks in prime time? How about as much as those that can afford to have themselves and their soap boxes flown around the nation? We have shown and proven that they do not, that is why millions of dollars are collected, either from "the plutocrats" or "the people".
 
I'd hardly say FDR defeated fascism. He allied the United States with fascist Portugal and tried to get an alliance with fascist Spain (after supporting an embargo on weapons that helped Franco overthrow Spain's democratic government) ... after the war these fascist countries would be U.S. allies for decades. He provided only the shoddiest materiel to the Soviet Union, to ensure that fascism would not be defeated speedily and that the Soviets would pay the biggest price. After World War II, in the American-British-French occupation zone, the Nazi-era legal framework was left in place as the basic law of W. Germany; forced labor of Jews was replaced by forced labor of Germans; and denazification was extremely shallow and focused on the most visible Nazis and their most visible abuses. Meanwhile, Nazis were recruited from the Abwehr, the rocketry program, and the SS for the U.S. side even before the war was over. Then there's his alliances with American fascists Charles Coughlin (broken off by Coughlin, not by Roosevelt) and Theodore Bilbo.
 
Not exactly a deep thought for you. Summarizing an administration as "good" or "bad" is something a lot of people here do, but I expect a little more from you.

Especially given that he was willing to overlook FDR's refusal to accept Holocaust refugees, internment of Japanese-Americans in concentration camps and selling out Eastern Europe to Josef Stalin and still call him a "good" president.
 
"marvin"....basic questions

1. Is Obama a "Bush 3rd term"...or not?

2. If not...why don't you defend Bush in comparison to Obama?

3. If so....what do you object to that Obama is doing that you also objected to Bush doing?


((And no, I don't expect direct answers....since it would put you in a contradictory position. But fun to ask. :) ))
 
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