Ding dong PJ's dead

[Days]

Well,

firstly, what she describes happens all around.. not one side does it...and the other sits about getting run off..

second, she has a habit of talking out of both sides.. she's less than kind in her sharing of her thoughts about the mods, here and elsewhere. While she herself was once a mod here, and knows precisely how it works here. again, no favorites or one side favored over another.

BD and I work very well together despite our political differences, and I will not allow his slander, and I hope he wont allow mine. Because we've fielded everyones shit...fairly. We're not perfect. And we like this site.. too. (ps, the admins input is the final arbiter overall, as well)

third, my opinion, she and some others got pissed off when challenged to back it up. when called out on their declaratives and expectations that none would challenge it... they were flummoxed when they were, and they ran. i believe there are enough here that can recall those times.

meanwhile, FN captures it above.. it is really a very simple matter... these very simple rules and how to live within them... with the occasional transgressions..

no real argument from me, like I said, this isn't my beef.

But these two posters, while not perfect, hey, who is perfect? other than me, of course, but I taught the old Slate Fray how to post with each other, not that they were willing to learn or anything like that. But I explained it to them and the admin both, that was my whole gig, posting as daysman. So I lived through wars the like of which no one here has any idea. So I am perfected in this area, using perfect the way it is used in scripture, which, it means "experienced", okay? These two posters combined are not as experienced as I am, I used to cover for Jen in fraywatch back when she didn't know who I was or that I was covering for her; I didn't agree with her politics, but I felt she had a right to the same treatment as the libs were getting. Okay, that was over 15 years ago, back when Kevinarno was the Fray editor.

I've been watching Jen's frustration with this forum for the last 2-3 years... she is posting at another forum and she is having a better experience over there. She has already left, phil. It isn't a matter of right or wrong, it is a matter of community.

I don't agree with either of these two, at least, I don't get their complaints. But that doesn't really matter, because it isn't about the complaints, this is about treatment. I get that, I understand what that is about. I'm not sure you and BD are seeing it, you both seem focused on the moderation perspective, and I don't think anyone thinks the moderation is anything less than awesome, but this is not really about that, this is about treatment.

Look at this reaction I got from you and BD, immediately on the defensive. I'm not even on the attack. I'm just trying to help out, because I think I understand where RE is coming from and I'm sure I understand where Jen is coming from. I usually only speak up when it comes down to losing posters, that is my focus. I guess I'm holding the door so it doesn't hit them on the ass as they leave. Because I want to see them come back. How long has it been since justoffal last posted here? I only came here after I asked JO where to post, he brought me here. JO and I used to post with each other at five in the morning, while the rest of yous was in bed. I care more for justoffal than the rest of this forum put together, after him, I care more for QT than the rest of this forum put together... and if you want to know who your best poster here is... it is that new girl, she outposts everyone, while patiently fielding the most attacks of anyone. what is her nic? the nazi party poster.

Anyway, I see 3 more alerts while I'm typing this, so I'm probably in trouble again. But damn, I hate to see good posters leaving. I look back at my original friends list and over half of those posters left and never came back.

you know, a little kindness goes a long way... even if someone is wrong.

 

[PhilFish]

no real argument from me, like I said, this isn't my beef.

But these two posters, while not perfect, hey, who is perfect? other than me, of course, but I taught the old Slate Fray how to post with each other, not that they were willing to learn or anything like that. But I explained it to them and the admin both, that was my whole gig, posting as daysman. So I lived through wars the like of which no one here has any idea. So I am perfected in this area, using perfect the way it is used in scripture, which, it means "experienced", okay? These two posters combined are not as experienced as I am, I used to cover for Jen in fraywatch back when she didn't know who I was or that I was covering for her; I didn't agree with her politics, but I felt she had a right to the same treatment as the libs were getting. Okay, that was over 15 years ago, back when Kevinarno was the Fray editor.

I've been watching Jen's frustration with this forum for the last 2-3 years... she is posting at another forum and she is having a better experience over there. She has already left, phil. It isn't a matter of right or wrong, it is a matter of community.

I don't agree with either of these two, at least, I don't get their complaints. But that doesn't really matter, because it isn't about the complaints, this is about treatment. I get that, I understand what that is about. I'm not sure you and BD are seeing it, you both seem focused on the moderation perspective, and I don't think anyone thinks the moderation is anything less than awesome, but this is not really about that, this is about treatment.

Look at this reaction I got from you and BD, immediately on the defensive. I'm not even on the attack. I'm just trying to help out, because I think I understand where RE is coming from and I'm sure I understand where Jen is coming from. I usually only speak up when it comes down to losing posters, that is my focus. I guess I'm holding the door so it doesn't hit them on the ass as they leave. Because I want to see them come back. How long has it been since justoffal last posted here? I only came here after I asked JO where to post, he brought me here. JO and I used to post with each other at five in the morning, while the rest of yous was in bed. I care more for justoffal than the rest of this forum put together, after him, I care more for QT than the rest of this forum put together... and if you want to know who your best poster here is... it is that new girl, she outposts everyone, while patiently fielding the most attacks of anyone. what is her nic? the nazi party poster.

Anyway, I see 3 more alerts while I'm typing this, so I'm probably in trouble again. But damn, I hate to see good posters leaving. I look back at my original friends list and over half of those posters left and never came back.

you know, a little kindness goes a long way... even if someone is wrong.

I remember those days too, Days. I was there as well. Lots of us go back almost 20 years now, and maybe we all are forgetting that bond. A ton of us came here when the Fray and BB went off line, a ton. Many never adjusted from the free for all to something less than that.

You, JO, QT, and you mean EMily.. yes, a very good poster. Good posters all..

I wish they all were back.. them, you, Degs, Arkady, MErc, Bo, Reptilicus, Bell, there is a looong list.. (well, i could care less for Merc (now Mytzleplyx or some such, i think he died, but DAMN he could post....) I want them all to come back. I miss them.

is your last sentence intended to mean the kindness is lacking on my part or BD's?

Here's the thing... I KNOW what she (Jen) posts about us in the other forums... I go there too. I have read the two facedness laying the blame on us. then here it's a pretend, what moi kind of approach..


THeres hurt feelings all around.. I cant speak for BD... but...what the hell.. we've held this up for YEARS...years.. being shit on left and right.. over and over.. and it constantly returns to the boo hoo... as though WE"RE the cause.. no. we're the solution... trying to not let it devolve into a SHITHOLE.. and tossing the ones that try to force it there..

THere's no animus here.. (well, a couple. tee hee) but they bring it on themselves.. I wish you were here more, all of them.. but it surely wont be while walking over me, or by a rewrite of what happened to turn it into anything other that what it was. that is.. some posters left because they were called out and asked to back their positions up.. they didnt or couldnt and fled. pretending it's the modding, or the left. or the right..or whatever.. If there is an 'echo chamber' it's because not enough of 'our people that go back almost 20' will stand up and speak....


the door is open...

 

[middleview]

Freyasman is welcome as soon as he makes his peace with the site owner.

has always been free to speak his mind, but not to repeatedly spew vulgarities at the mods, and particularly harsh words to the site owner..

if he's pretending to you or others that he didnt, well.. he did..

Frey threatened to kill me and burn my house down. I'm thinking that was hardly acceptable in any forum.

 

[PhilFish]

Frey threatened to kill me and burn my house down. I'm thinking that was hardly acceptable in any forum.

dont think i knew that. on that basis he would never be allowed to return.

 

[middleview]

dont think i knew that. on that basis he would never be allowed to return.

Once on Slate there was a guy who promised to come visit me related to discussing something related to gun control...I treated it as a joke until he pm'd me my home address. Still don't know how he figured it out, but he was an ex-cop in Las Vegas.

He and I became friends at one point and I bought he, his wife and son returning from overseas duty, dinner at a good restaurant near their home....but it was still a bit unnerving to know that he could find out where I live.

 

[Bernard_Fokke]

Freyasman is welcome as soon as he makes his peace with the site owner.

has always been free to speak his mind, but not to repeatedly spew vulgarities at the mods, and particularly harsh words to the site owner..

if he's pretending to you or others that he didnt, well.. he did..

I don't know, I wasn't there nor did I see the emails, nor discuss them with Fraysman. Just stating what I see.

My opinion is however that if people are driven away from PJ it will end up a boring wasteland where everyone agrees and it turns into Mr Rogers neighborhood where everyone joins hands in a drum circle and hums kumbaya.

There is a circle of posters here that excels in baiting other posters, they stay just on the plus side of the rules so they don't get popped but the intent is to harass the other posters to the point of anger and when they fire back then they run to the mods and you know the rest.

There are problems on PJ and a goodly number of posters are just getting sick and tired of the BS games and leaving.

 

[PhilFish]

Once on Slate there was a guy who promised to come visit me related to discussing something related to gun control...I treated it as a joke until he pm'd me my home address. Still don't know how he figured it out, but he was an ex-cop in Las Vegas.

He and I became friends at one point and I bought he, his wife and son returning from overseas duty, dinner at a good restaurant near their home....but it was still a bit unnerving to know that he could find out where I live.

thats scary stuff. there was a lot of violent content on slate.. sigh.

 

[PhilFish]

I don't know, I wasn't there nor did I see the emails, nor discuss them with Fraysman. Just stating what I see.

My opinion is however that if people are driven away from PJ it will end up a boring wasteland where everyone agrees and it turns into Mr Rogers neighborhood where everyone joins hands in a drum circle and hums kumbaya.

There is a circle of posters here that excels in baiting other posters, they stay just on the plus side of the rules so they don't get popped but the intent is to harass the other posters to the point of anger and when they fire back then they run to the mods and you know the rest.

There are problems on PJ and a goodly number of posters are just getting sick and tired of the BS games and leaving.

that's actually not the case.. very few run to the mods...

i dont disagree that there are baiters.. but the fact of the matter is it is NOT one sided. not hardly.

those goodly number of posters are welcome to come and fix it....by posting fact laden retorts to the baiters... anytime.


what's funny to me is that they're concurrently off on other boards doing precisely what they claim is the cause of their leaving this board..

what's anyone to do about that?

Phil'll keep at it.. fighting the good fight with me pal @bdtex

 

[Days]

I remember those days too, Days. I was there as well. Lots of us go back almost 20 years now, and maybe we all are forgetting that bond. A ton of us came here when the Fray and BB went off line, a ton. Many never adjusted from the free for all to something less than that.

You, JO, QT, and you mean EMily.. yes, a very good poster. Good posters all..

I wish they all were back.. them, you, Degs, Arkady, MErc, Bo, Reptilicus, Bell, there is a looong list.. (well, i could care less for Merc (now Mytzleplyx or some such, i think he died, but DAMN he could post....) I want them all to come back. I miss them.

is your last sentence intended to mean the kindness is lacking on my part or BD's?

Here's the thing... I KNOW what she (Jen) posts about us in the other forums... I go there too. I have read the two facedness laying the blame on us. then here it's a pretend, what moi kind of approach..


THeres hurt feelings all around.. I cant speak for BD... but...what the hell.. we've held this up for YEARS...years.. being shit on left and right.. over and over.. and it constantly returns to the boo hoo... as though WE"RE the cause.. no. we're the solution... trying to not let it devolve into a SHITHOLE.. and tossing the ones that try to force it there..

THere's no animus here.. (well, a couple. tee hee) but they bring it on themselves.. I wish you were here more, all of them.. but it surely wont be while walking over me, or by a rewrite of what happened to turn it into anything other that what it was. that is.. some posters left because they were called out and asked to back their positions up.. they didnt or couldnt and fled. pretending it's the modding, or the left. or the right..or whatever.. If there is an 'echo chamber' it's because not enough of 'our people that go back almost 20' will stand up and speak....


the door is open...

yeah, a little kindness, even if they are wrong... that was aimed at you and BD, and I think also myself, because the battle has worn you down, I know it wore me down, and you guys do an awesome job, even Jen said so, at least she did to me... but our hearts have grown cold haven't they?

there was a story that Jesus told, about a prodigal son, who was a real idiot and deserved to be cast out and forgotten, but his father instead cried tears of joy to receive him back... didn't make any sense, I guess family is like that.

 

[PhilFish]

yeah, a little kindness, even if they are wrong... that was aimed at you and BD, and I think also myself, because the battle has worn you down, I know it wore me down, and you guys do an awesome job, even Jen said so, at least she did to me... but our hearts have grown cold haven't they?

there was a story that Jesus told, about a prodigal son, who was a real idiot and deserved to be cast out and forgotten, but his father instead cried tears of joy to receive him back... didn't make any sense, I guess family is like that.

I dont know what else to tell you. I want them all back..i just said it above.. I miss them

But i wont be shit on. Not then (BB), not here. Nor will I allow to pass the make believe that the mods facilitate some echo chamber..

The record here is clear...and all (who do not threaten violence, expose personal details, espouse violence on our elected, etc) are welcome.

The fun is in the fight...and the skill navigating therein...

 

[Jen]

There are many posters here...left and right that seemingly manage just fine withing the simple rules. Sometimes we have mistakes, sometimes violations...we move on.

What you want is an echo chamber. Sorry, no can do.

I've been where you've gone. Read what's there..

So if I don't want my threads derailed, then you deem that I want an echo chamber? That doesn't even make sense.

All I want is that when I make an OP, that OP is addressed by responders. The OP. Not me, my looks, my source, their disdain for me, or me in any way. I would love to come here to get alternate opinions. I am not interested in anyone's opinion of me personally. I don't care if I am liked or respected but posters here seem to need to share that.

At one time I enjoyed getting into the personal aspect of posting. I don't enjoy it now. That's all many posters here have to offer.

 

[ObamacareForever]

that's actually not the case.. very few run to the mods...

i dont disagree that there are baiters.. but the fact of the matter is it is NOT one sided. not hardly.

those goodly number of posters are welcome to come and fix it....by posting fact laden retorts to the baiters... anytime.


what's funny to me is that they're concurrently off on other boards doing precisely what they claim is the cause of their leaving this board..

what's anyone to do about that?

Phil'll keep at it.. fighting the good fight with me pal @bdtex

I like the baiters because they give a sense of superiority when they say stupid stuff.

 

[PhilFish]

So if I don't want my threads derailed, then you deem that I want an echo chamber? That doesn't even make sense.

All I want is that when I make an OP, that OP is addressed by responders. The OP. Not me, my looks, my source, their disdain for me, or me in any way. I would love to come here to get alternate opinions. I am not interested in anyone's opinion of me personally. I don't care if I am liked or respected but posters here seem to need to share that.

At one time I enjoyed getting into the personal aspect of posting. I don't enjoy it now. That's all many posters here have to offer.

we erase the insults as best we can, and the personal attacks. the record, however imperfect, is clear.

 

[Jen]

lot's of us have posted for a decade or longer with Jen, and with others. Everybody want's a dialogue. AND. Everybody wants to be free to call one side liberal and the other republikkkon.. EVERYBODY does it. This pretend well it's the clique, or its the left,or the right.. is an unfair cast. Everybody is doing it. Further..it is within everybodys purvue to stop it.

who is being treated as a child?

Believe it or not I hold a lot of affection for those that came here from Slate. Now, I don't mind Republicans being referred to as Repugs.... the group name calling thing. It's when it gets personal that I start cringing away. I don't want to do it to the Lefties here and I don't want it done to me.

The one thing that has driven me away, though, is the thread derail. If I make a post about Biden and the response is "but Trump......" I just walk away from that thread entirely. It's done.

 

[PhilFish]

I like the baiters because they give a sense of superiority when they say stupid stuff.

well, that's like everyone these days.

 

[PhilFish]

Believe it or not I hold a lot of affection for those that came here from Slate. Now, I don't mind Republicans being referred to as Repugs.... the group name calling thing. It's when it gets personal that I start cringing away. I don't want to do it to the Lefties here and I don't want it done to me.

The one thing that has driven me away, though, is the thread derail. If I make a post about Biden and the response is "but Trump......" I just walk away from that thread entirely. It's done.

so no one is allowed a contrast? isnt that an echo chamber....posts left unchallenged?

 

[Jen]

I think what she wants is discussion.

You do understand the difference between discussion and a food fight?

I want discussion. What I don't want is a post made about something political to turn into a post about me, @Days, @PhilFish , @bdtex

What is so difficult for you (not you, Days) to understand there?

 

[ObamacareForever]

I want discussion. What I don't want is a post made about something political to turn into a post about me, @Days, @PhilFish , @bdtex

What is so difficult for you (not you, Days) to understand there?

There is this nice handy function the bottom left hand corner. You can use it when other posters break the rules such as posting about you.

 

[Jen]

we erase the insults as best we can, and the personal attacks. the record, however imperfect, is clear.

You do as well as can be expected.

I think that in this stressful time it's just harder to take. And some here can't ease up and be just a little kinder....... for some reason..... that's probably the stress of things too.

 

[Jen]

There is this nice handy View attachment 52010 function the bottom left hand corner. You can use it when other posters break the rules such as posting about you.

I have used it. I try not to do that. There is no reason to pile on to the moderators unless it is absolutely necessary. My feelings aren't hurt by the insults. It's just frustrating to have the post content ignored for someone's gratuitous need to insult me personally or bring Trump into a conversation that has nothing to do with him.