False equivalency arguments - classified docs ..

[PhilFish]

There are a lot of posters bleating the comparisons between Trump and Biden are a false equivalency, comparing apples and oranges...

Let's digest..

1. Both had left their respective offices, President and vice President, and presumably followed similar procedures in the reporting of what was being removed

2. Both are in possession, were in possession, of classified materials and other items, that are the property of the United States

3. Upon leaving office whether president or vice president, by law these items are the property of, and belong to, the United States of America

4. Trump was in possession of such items

5. Biden was in possession of such items

That's the point where we are presently in the ark with President Biden and the items found in not one but two offices, left uncontrolled for years, potentially exposing sensitive classified information


Trump's behavior, refusals, and so on are irrelevant in this apples to apples comparison.

 

[middleview]

There are a lot of posters bleating the comparisons between Trump and Biden are a false equivalency, comparing apples and oranges...

Let's digest..

1. Both had left their respective offices, President and vice President, and presumably followed similar procedures in the reporting of what was being removed

2. Both are in possession, were in possession, of classified materials and other items, that are the property of the United States

3. Upon leaving office whether president or vice president, by law these items are the property of, and belong to, the United States of America

4. Trump was in possession of such items

5. Biden was in possession of such items

That's the point where we are presently in the ark with President Biden and the items found in not one but two offices, left uncontrolled for years, potentially exposing sensitive classified information


Trump's behavior, refusals, and so on are irrelevant in this apples to apples comparison.

Of course, there is one major difference. Trump refused to return those documents and a search warrant had to be issued to force him to comply.

 

[Sickofleft]

Of course, there is one major difference. Trump refused to return those documents and a search warrant had to be issued to force him to comply.

Bullshit. Other Presidents have negoitated with the archives in the past over any disputes.

The search warrant was issued to inflict as much political damage to him as possible and handled by the FBI. An organization that has reached a new lever of corruption.

This over reach just blew up in their faces and it serves them right.

 

[PhilFish]

Of course, there is one major difference. Trump refused to return those documents and a search warrant had to be issued to force him to comply.

At some later stage of course. But where we are presently is the uncovering of classified materials and other documents that belong to the United States government and not one but two offices belonging to Joe Biden. That's where we are.

 

[as seen on tv]

There are a lot of posters bleating the comparisons between Trump and Biden are a false equivalency, comparing apples and oranges...

Let's digest..

1. Both had left their respective offices, President and vice President, and presumably followed similar procedures in the reporting of what was being removed

2. Both are in possession, were in possession, of classified materials and other items, that are the property of the United States

3. Upon leaving office whether president or vice president, by law these items are the property of, and belong to, the United States of America

4. Trump was in possession of such items

5. Biden was in possession of such items

That's the point where we are presently in the ark with President Biden and the items found in not one but two offices, left uncontrolled for years, potentially exposing sensitive classified information


Trump's behavior, refusals, and so on are irrelevant in this apples to apples comparison.

good post. i am astonished that PBS, CBS, the NYT etc continue to loudly and repeatedly assert that the Biden docs posed no danger.

This is like Russia, and Pravda

 

[middleview]

Bullshit. Other Presidents have negoitated with the archives in the past over any disputes.

The search warrant was issued to inflict as much political damage to him as possible and handled by the FBI. An organization that has reached a new lever of corruption.

This over reach just blew up in their faces and it serves them right.

Do you have any evidence of any previous president taking government documents and lying about it? Trump did. That is why the search warrant was needed.

 

[middleview]

good post. i am astonished that PBS, CBS, the NYT etc continue to loudly and repeatedly assert that the Biden docs posed no danger.

This is like Russia, and Pravda

I haven't seen any stories making that claim. Got a link?

 

[Dawg]

IMO, if in two different locations there are more places with Classified Documents

One place is possibly a Mistake, Two places is on purpose

Don’t buy Biden’s ‘surprise’ — classified documents were moved at least twice (msn.com)

 

[Sickofleft]

Do you have any evidence of any previous president taking government documents and lying about it? Trump did. That is why the search warrant was needed.

I love "questions" that are actually statements. Please show us where "he lied"... while you are at it please tell us when anyone from the National Archives was refused access to Trumps place.

What happened to all the nuclear codes he supposedly had?

Lies on top of lies on top of more lies.....

Suprise suprise.... you defend every last one of them.

 

[middleview]

I love "questions" that are actually statements. Please show us where "he lied"... while you are at it please tell us when anyone from the National Archives was refused access to Trumps place.

What happened to all the nuclear codes he supposedly had?

Lies on top of lies on top of more lies.....

Suprise suprise.... you defend every last one of them.

Where is your evidence of other presidents refusing to return government documents?

I already provided a link that showed FBI agents were shown the storage area, but were not permitted to inspect boxes they suspected had more documents.

That link also stated the FBI was given a certified letter stating all docs had been returned.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

There are a lot of posters bleating the comparisons between Trump and Biden are a false equivalency, comparing apples and oranges...

Let's digest..

1. Both had left their respective offices, President and vice President, and presumably followed similar procedures in the reporting of what was being removed

2. Both are in possession, were in possession, of classified materials and other items, that are the property of the United States

3. Upon leaving office whether president or vice president, by law these items are the property of, and belong to, the United States of America

4. Trump was in possession of such items

5. Biden was in possession of such items

That's the point where we are presently in the ark with President Biden and the items found in not one but two offices, left uncontrolled for years, potentially exposing sensitive classified information


Trump's behavior, refusals, and so on are irrelevant in this apples to apples comparison.

Let’s just take one of those canards to illustrate how baseless they are:

You say “Biden was in possession of such items.” Biden lives and works in the White House. That has been the case since January 2021. From what is reported, it appears that documents were found in a locked closet in an office in DC. You nevertheless claim that “Biden was in possession of such items.” Absurd, of course.

What is an example of someone actually being in possession of classified documents? Trump, of course. He had the documents in his house, which also serves as a social club with hundreds of people coming and going. In his own office even. Now THAT is possession of the documents.

 

[Dawg]

Let’s just take one of those canards to illustrate how baseless they are:

You say “Biden was in possession of such items.” Biden lives and works in the White House. That has been the case since January 2021. From what is reported, it appears that documents were found in a locked closet in an office in DC. You nevertheless claim that “Biden was in possession of such items.” Absurd, of course.

What is an example of someone actually being in possession of classified documents? Trump, of course. He had the documents in his house, which also serves as a social club with hundreds of people coming and going. In his own office they’re even. Now THAT is possession of the documents.

Does PRIVATE OFFICE for Joey at Penn Biden Center constipate you or what and apparently there were Many in and out of that PRIVATE OFFICE and Joey had possession of the docs. Locked Closet, are you seriously trying to say Joey didn't have a key to the Closet in his PRIVATE OFFICE!

BTW: Trump as well had a Locked Closet, lock'em both up and throw away the key. NO

 

[Sickofleft]

Where is your evidence of other presidents refusing to return government documents?

I already provided a link that showed FBI agents were shown the storage area, but were not permitted to inspect boxes they suspected had more documents.

That link also stated the FBI was given a certified letter stating all docs had been returned.

Really? The same FBI that enacted an insurance policy against Trump in 2016 and lied to FISA court to spy on his campaign and his Presidency? The FBI who paid the guy who wrote the Steele Dossier and offered 1 million dollars to Steele to verify any of it?........ should I go on.... there is a laundry list of things....

That FBI? Maybe there is another one with credibility when it comes to Trump because you could not possibly be talking about the same FBI that had the investigation into Hunters Laptop killed and then leaned on Social Media companies to label it Russian Disinformation........

Ya know what, keep clicking your heels together, I am sure this time they are telling us the truth......

Moving on:

When other Presidents have had disputes about documents they get nice letters like the one below:

Obama recieved concerning his records (please note Hoffman Estates is NOT a Federal site):

The Obama documents — both classified and unclassified —
remained in Hoffman Estates well into 2018, as evidenced by a letter of intent executed between Ferriero on behalf of the National Archives Trust Fund and the Obama Foundation. Among other things, the letter of intent memorialized the Obama Foundation’s agreement to “transfer up to three million three hundred thousand dollars ($3,300,000) to the National Archives Trust Fund (NATF) to support the move of classified and unclassified Obama Presidential records and artifacts from Hoffman Estates to NARA-controlled facilities that conform to the agency’s archival storage standards for such records and artifacts.”
Nice letter, all former Presidents given time to review things for archives etc., Donald Trump.... gets an FBI raid for the nightly news photo op......

Best insurance policy in the world.

 

[sensible don]

Is this horse dead yet?
Man the BDS is badddddddddddddddddddddd the past few days.

So this is now ISSUE 1 - top priority and let's walk down the archive aisle and dredge up some of the " no big deal - he had the right, a storage issue , etc. posts by the same bloodhounds now. LMFAO

 

[Dawg]

What else was in the Locked Closet in Joey's PRIVATE OFFICE that Joey's lawyers aren't reporting of being there?

What Hunter Biden told Kevin McCarthy’s mom at White House state dinner (msn.com)

Why send Lawyers to empty the PRIVATE OFFICE closet?

 

[sensible don]

Sleepy joe should demand a "SPECIAL MASTER", find a sympathetic, appointed judge to trample the Laws for him - amiright?

 

[Dawg]

FBI Under Pressure to Raid Biden's Home After Second Set of Documents Found (msn.com)

 

[PhilFish]

good post. i am astonished that PBS, CBS, the NYT etc continue to loudly and repeatedly assert that the Biden docs posed no danger.

This is like Russia, and Pravda

It's not a matter of what it poses or doesn't pose, at least until we know the contents. What it is a matter of is whether there are laws and procedures that everyone is subject to, or may have violated, like Trump. The law is that any work product produced by the president or the vice president of the United States is the sole property of the United States government unless otherwise authorized by said government.

So the danger that's currently present is biden, like trump, removed documents that are the property of the United States of America. And is to be subject to the same procedures under law as Trump

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Does PRIVATE OFFICE for Joey at Penn Biden Center constipate you or what and apparently there were Many in and out of that PRIVATE OFFICE and Joey had possession of the docs. Locked Closet, are you seriously trying to say Joey didn't have a key to the Closet in his PRIVATE OFFICE!

BTW: Trump as well had a Locked Closet, lock'em both up and throw away the key. NO

Trump had them in his desk.

But again, Biden is not in possession of documents locked in some office closet when he lives and works in the White House. Right?

 

[PhilFish]

Let’s just take one of those canards to illustrate how baseless they are:

You say “Biden was in possession of such items.” Biden lives and works in the White House. That has been the case since January 2021. From what is reported, it appears that documents were found in a locked closet in an office in DC. You nevertheless claim that “Biden was in possession of such items.” Absurd, of course.

What is an example of someone actually being in possession of classified documents? Trump, of course. He had the documents in his house, which also serves as a social club with hundreds of people coming and going. In his own office even. Now THAT is possession of the documents.

Let me ask you a question..

If you own a vacation property, and you're not present in it, is it still your property?

Are the contents of said vacation property still in your possession, or do they cease to be your possessions because you're not physically present in the vacation home?

Similarly if you have files locked in a file cabinet stored somewhere. But you're not present with them they're still in your possession correct because you stored them there?

The documents we're referring to are the work product of the former vice President of the United States. They are in fact the possession of the United States government. But in fact and reality they were found to be in the possession of Joseph Biden, whether he was present standing next to them or not.