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Historical Question.

When did the idea of getting something for free being called a right begin?

Since nothing is free, someone has to pay for it So when a person gets something for free from the government some other person is paying for it.

We've now advance even that radical idea. We are now saying that not having something provided for free is the same as saying we are DENYING ACCESS to it. This is an expansion of getting something for free being a right.

I believe, that if we could find the exact point in our history where getting something for free started being considered a right, we could find the exact point in our history that we began our national decline, by getting away from the basic TRUE RIGHTS that were given in the Constitution that made this country the leading economic power in the world, basically the RIGHT TO PRIVATE PROPERTY an the right to INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY that prevents your private property from being confiscated forcibly by government.

We're increasingly having our individual liberty and private property confiscated to an ever greater degree. If this continues we are headed for economic and totalitarian misery that will affect each and every American. There will be no escaping it.
 
You guys have the word "free" on the brain. I don't recall Obama even using it more than once or twice in three years.

Btw, you can spend $70 or so once a year servicing your air conditioner and furnace, or you can spend 6 grand or so replacing them. Which do you prefer?

Totalitarian misery? Lol.. you guys will clearly be miserable until 2016. But don't worry, Obama won't take your guns or march you to the guillotine. :D
 
1635, with the advent of Boston Latin School, public funds, i.e. taxes, were used to educate the youth. This was "free" education...and I believe we can all agree that a basic education is a right we all have.



Establishment of the school was due in great measure to the influence of the Reverend John Cotton, who sought to create in the New World a school like the Free Grammar School of Boston, England, in which Latin and Greek were taught. The first classes were held in the home of the Master, Philemon Pormort (see Footnotes). From the earliest years the town assigned public funds to the support of the school.

http://www.bls.org/history
 
What I would like to see from you Sgt, is an example of:

When did the idea of getting something for free being called a right begin?


You see, I think it's just a B/S Right Wing shouting point, with zero evidence of it actually happening. Which I suspect is why you couldn't list a single example in your top post. So now I am asking YOU for an example, because I don't believe that happens. So let's all just sit back & see if Sgt, can provide an example.

If not, then just remember:



All Hail King Blam !!!!
 
When did the idea of getting something for free being called a right begin?

Since nothing is free, someone has to pay for it So when a person gets something for free from the government some other person is paying for it.

We've now advance even that radical idea. We are now saying that not having something provided for free is the same as saying we are DENYING ACCESS to it. This is an expansion of getting something for free being a right.

I believe, that if we could find the exact point in our history where getting something for free started being considered a right, we could find the exact point in our history that we began our national decline, by getting away from the basic TRUE RIGHTS that were given in the Constitution that made this country the leading economic power in the world, basically the RIGHT TO PRIVATE PROPERTY an the right to INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY that prevents your private property from being confiscated forcibly by government.

We're increasingly having our individual liberty and private property confiscated to an ever greater degree. If this continues we are headed for economic and totalitarian misery that will affect each and every American. There will be no escaping it.

You live in the Richest country in the World. The Harvest has been good, why should some enjoy the 'feast' and others not ? Even in Feudal days there was 'humble pie' for vagrants and the 'useless'. Or would you be happy to have to step over the bodies of the dead and dying from starvation and or desease everyday .......for that would be what happened taking your complaint to it's logical conclusion.
Generosity is sadly lacking today, meaness seems to be in Mode.
 
You live in the Richest country in the World. The Harvest has been good, why should some enjoy the 'feast' and others not ?
Because some people live in a permanent sense of Dearth... and their fear can never be slaked. Particularly because they fear that they themsleves are more like those who are poor than they are willing to own up to.
 
When did the idea of getting something for free being called a right begin?

Since nothing is free, someone has to pay for it So when a person gets something for free from the government some other person is paying for it.

We've now advance even that radical idea. We are now saying that not having something provided for free is the same as saying we are DENYING ACCESS to it. This is an expansion of getting something for free being a right.

I believe, that if we could find the exact point in our history where getting something for free started being considered a right, we could find the exact point in our history that we began our national decline, by getting away from the basic TRUE RIGHTS that were given in the Constitution that made this country the leading economic power in the world, basically the RIGHT TO PRIVATE PROPERTY an the right to INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY that prevents your private property from being confiscated forcibly by government.

We're increasingly having our individual liberty and private property confiscated to an ever greater degree. If this continues we are headed for economic and totalitarian misery that will affect each and every American. There will be no escaping it.

You might start at the time roads were built using taxpayer money to accommodate the needs of the automobile industry. That may have been the first instance of government giving hand outs to the wealthy. It's never stopped....................
 
You might start at the time roads were built using taxpayer money to accommodate the needs of the automobile industry. That may have been the first instance of government giving hand outs to the wealthy. It's never stopped....................

People that use the roads pay for them through transportation and fuel taxes, and the roads were built, not to accomodate the automobile industry, they were built to accommodate the people that use automobiles.so the people that use automobiles are paying for something they use and not receiving them for free. If you don't use an automobile, you don't pay the gas and transportation taxes. That is what we call taxation with representation.

Governments can't give anything to the wealthy as it is the wealthy that pay for the bulk of government. All governments can do is let the people that 'earn ' the money, keep more for it, or take more if it.

Where liberals always make their mistake with regards to government spending, is the difference between taxation which is used to fund the essential functions of government (National Defense, Foreign policy and the State Department, Regulating ACTUAL commerce, and other specifics outlined in article one section eight of the Constitution, and taxation that is used for re-distribution to pay for SOMEONE ELSE'S food, housing, education, medical care, school lunches, etc.

Get it now? It is the redistributive actions of government that end up bankrupting nations and destroying civil societies.

And it can and will happen here, if we don't get away from the idea of getting something for nothing.
 
People that use the roads pay for them through transportation and fuel taxes,
Nope they contribute to them but they do not pay for the whole amount. Even in cases where tolls are used to "pay for" the bonds issued, the bonds are issued against the original taxing authroity and credit worthiness of the authority itself. And that requires taxes

Lastly the roads were built BEFORE road taxes were enough to ay for them. IN fact the whole Interstate Highway system was built using Defense Department funds and authority.

FACTS MATTER
HISTORY MATTERS

Governments can't give anything to the wealthy as it is the wealthy that pay for the bulk of government.
And the wealthy are also the vastly disproportionate beneficiaries of government policies.... so?


Where liberals always make their mistake with regards to government spending, is the difference between taxation which is used to fund the essential functions of government
Youre definition of "essential" is meaningless. The spending is not Unconstititional even by the statements of the Founding Fathers. And it is 100% "essential" in a modern economy. Nations that follow the standards you suggest simply aren not economically very efficient or successful

Get it now? It is the redistributive actions of government that end up bankrupting nations and destroying civil societies.
Since ALL societies throughout history have engaged in redistribution of wealth, this is a nonsense claim

Yes it can happen in the USA.
No there is zero evidence we are anywhere near as close to this as we have been more than once in past history.


FACTS MATTER
HISTORY MATTERS
ECONOMICS MATTERS
got any?
 
A right, historically, meant that the government could not deny you something, such as the right to free speech. Somewhere along the line it became twisted into someone being compelled to give you something at there expense. This gives the government, incrementally, power over other people's wealth. Power, of course, is what the government craves.

We have, under the Constitution, the right to bear arms. Some people below the poverty line cannot afford to purchase arms. Should the government provide firearms for those who cannot afford them? Isn't it their right? Of course not. having a right to something does not obligate the government to provide it to you free of charge simply because you exist.
 
A right, historically, meant that the government could not deny you something, such as the right to free speech. Somewhere along the line it became twisted into someone being compelled to give you something at there expense. This gives the government, incrementally, power over other people's wealth. Power, of course, is what the government craves.

We have, under the Constitution, the right to bear arms. Some people below the poverty line cannot afford to purchase arms. Should the government provide firearms for those who cannot afford them? Isn't it their right? Of course not. having a right to something does not obligate the government to provide it to you free of charge simply because you exist.


Arms are to be provided for the militia...If you wish to turn the general populace in the militia, then yes...firearms are to be provided.

In addition...the FF defined the militia...and do remember, that is the first part of A2...as every able bodied man between 18 and 45. Free guns for all...


To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
 
]Nope they contribute to them but they do not pay for the whole amount. Even in cases where tolls are used to "pay for" the bonds issued, the bonds are issued against the original taxing authroity and credit worthiness of the authority itself. And that requires taxes

Lastly the roads were built BEFORE road taxes were enough to ay for them. IN fact the whole Interstate Highway system was built using Defense Department funds and authority.

Eisenhower's Interstate Highway Funding was done under the auspices of National Defense, and since weapons, military hardware and troops need to be transported, it was a legitimate expense and was NOT wealth re-distribution.

Also,State and Federal fuel and transportation taxes are being taken and used for other functions which ARE redistributive, such as medicaid which is the biggest spending item is vertually every state's budget.. If they weren't, There would be an excess of highway funding.

And although I don't approve of the the automaker bailouts, that bailout actually penalized the investors that held GM bonds, and rewarded the labor Union workers. It certainly didn't benefit the bondholders.

Youre definition of "essential" is meaningless. The spending is not Unconstititional even by the statements of the Founding Fathers. And it is 100% "essential" in a modern economy. Nations that follow the standards you suggest simply aren not economically very efficient or successful

The actual document which was signed SPECIFICALLY outlines what is within the purview of FEDERAL authority in Article One, Section Eight.

All other authorities NOT SPECIFICALLY granted to the FEDERAL government are the authorities of the individual states, and cannot be USURPED by the FEDERAL government.

Since ALL societies throughout history have engaged in redistribution of wealth, this is a nonsense claim

Yes it can happen in the USA.
No there is zero evidence we are anywhere near as close to this as we have been more than once in past history.

All other societies DON'T live under the US Constitution and it IS happening there.

The dimwit in the White House has just proposed a budget which will result in our national debt growing to 24 trillion dollars in 10 years, and he's calling it a spending cut.

But the civil society will have collapsed long before then, as the interest on the debt will consume so much federal revenue, it will no longer be possible to fund the entitlement society that has been created by establishing the idea that getting something for free is a right.

It is time to cut the Federal Government back to its Constitutional limits IMMEDIATELY. We are passed the tipping point when 47% of Americans receive more from government than the pay in taxes.

If drastic ACTUAL spending cuts, which will hurt a lot of people that are dependent on government, aren't made in the next couple of years, we're finished.
 
Eisenhower's Interstate Highway Funding was done under the auspices of National Defense, and since weapons, military hardware and troops need to be transported, it was a legitimate expense and was NOT wealth re-distribution.
That it is a "legitimate expense" has no bearing on whether or not it is or is not "wealth redistribution". It clearly WAS and continues to be "wealth redistribution". It brings services, infrastructure and other funding (First responder, hospital funding) to parts of the nation that lack the wealth to provide those for themselves. for example much of South Carolinas 911 response service and rural hospitals are funded by the National Highway Transportation Act.

That's the point, Blue States fund Red States in this. It IS "wealth redistribution" regardless of whether you consider that redistribution a valid or invalid aspect of government spending
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html


And although I don't approve of the the automaker bailouts, that bailout actually penalized the investors that held GM bonds,
Actually that is simply Factually FALSE. In point of fact it was the GM Bondholders that FORCED the bankruptcy. The WH did not want a bankruptcy. They wanted to work out a settlement and offered MORE money than the bondholders got in bankruptcy.

But here's the gotcha. Because the Unregulated Credit Default Swaps at AIG had been "made whole" -the major GM Bondholders may have gotten less than the Obama offer in forcing the bankruptcy, you also have to add in the CDSes they got to cash in. As a result the major GM Bondholders DID BETTER by forcining bankruptcy than by taking Obama's offer.

FACTS MATTER SS
and on this one you are outright, FACTUALLY WRONG

Youre definition of "essential" is meaningless. The spending is not Unconstititional even by the statements of the Founding Fathers. And it is 100% "essential" in a modern economy. Nations that follow the standards you suggest simply aren not economically very efficient or successful
The actual document which was signed SPECIFICALLY outlines what is within the purview of FEDERAL authority in Article One, Section Eight

All other authorities NOT SPECIFICALLY granted to the FEDERAL government are the authorities of the individual states, and cannot be USURPED by the FEDERAL government.
Well not quite. Because Am 14 changes all that.

But even under Article 1 Section 8 Para 1... here's what Alexander Hamilton wrote shortly after the 10th Amendment was ratified:

The terms "general Welfare" were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which Preceded; otherwise numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a Nation would have been left without a provision. The phrase is as comprehensive as any that could have been used; because it was not fit that the constitutional authority of the Union, to appropriate its revenues shou'd have been restricted within narrower limits than the "General Welfare" and because this necessarily embraces a vast variety of particulars, which are susceptible neither of specification nor of definition.
It is therefore of necessity left to the discretion of the National Legislature, to pronounce, upon the objects, which concern the general Welfare, and for which under that description, an appropriation of money is requisite and prope​
​
Now whether you like it or not, that is one of the "Founding Fathers" telling you that your claims about what are "essential functions" of government, is just something you made up in a fervent imagination.


The dimwit in the White House has just proposed a budget which will result in our national debt growing to 24 trillion dollars in 10 years, and he's calling it a spending cut.
Yes and? You are engaged in the innumeracy of big numbers. What is the projectd GDP in 10 years?
And how long does the USA have to pay off that debt???


But the civil society will have collapsed long before then, as the interest on the debt will consume so much federal revenue,
Really? Based on what math?

Current GDP is around $15 Trillion. Historic average growt rates have been 3.2%. Under GOP administrations it has been about 22% below that. at 2.6% So lets take the worse case scenario of 2.6% growth. Compounded annually over 10 years that's 29.3% growth. Which puts GDP at $19.5 Trillion.

$24 Trillion - $19.5 trillion is 4.5 Trillion. Or a debt to GDP ratio of 123%.... well below the worst case numbers the USA has experienced.

MATH MATTERS
(btw if we use historic AVG growth rate its 117%).

Or put it another way. The amount of debt that exceeds the GDP is LESS THAN what Obama inheritted coming into office (9 trillion).

FACTS MATTER

It is time to cut the Federal Government back to its Constitutional limits IMMEDIATELY
Um sorry, it already is there. You cannot point to a single program that is not Constitutional. NOT ONE (except perhaps Gitmo and the PATRIOT Act).
 
Good grief! How did we go right from "Education is paid for by public funds" straight to "so you're saying the founding fathers were idiots?"

Cheap move. Common one, too.
 
Good grief! How did we go right from "Education is paid for by public funds" straight to "so you're saying the founding fathers were idiots?"

Cheap move. Common one, too.
Just because something is common doesn't mean its wrong.

And in this case we have text from the Founding Fathers calling it "free education".

And we have a poster saying it is stupid to call it "free"...

How is that not the same as saying the Founding Father's were also 'stupid'.???
 
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