House passes bill banning abortions after 20 weeks

[IAmBrown]

"I didn't need my parents to tell me that every child is a gift from God. But let me tell you, they did -- early and often. Because that respect -- that sanctity and dignity -- is everything," a teary Boehner said.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/politics/house-gop-abortion-20-weeks/index.html

What about rape victims? What about women with medical preconditions? Do they receive a gift from God himself? I seriously doubt. There is no divine intervention in sexual abuse and there is no God's will when a woman is held hostage by a risky pregnancy. Each situation is different, that's why I advocate pro-choice stance. There is no universal truth. And there is clearly no universal rule for women, their bodies and their babies.

 

[as seen on tv]

if we want to have abortion be "settled law" its going to need a constitutional amendment. dueling state, local and federal laws simply enrich attorneys who want to litigate this stuff in court.

 

[UPNYA2]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/politics/house-gop-abortion-20-weeks/index.html

What about rape victims? What about women with medical preconditions? Do they receive a gift from God himself? I seriously doubt. There is no divine intervention in sexual abuse and there is no God's will when a woman is held hostage by a risky pregnancy. Each situation is different, that's why I advocate pro-choice stance. There is no universal truth. And there is clearly no universal rule for women, their bodies and their babies.

True.........true..........

It seems as if some people think that a woman could figure out if she is pregnant as a result of a rape, incest, sexual abuse etc. within 20 or so weeks and have an abortion if she so desires.

However, even if all of the above is the case I am of the opinion there should still be allowances made for unforeseen medical risk that could arise later in the pregnancy. Real dangers, not inconvenience mind you.

But I suppose that is why this is such a touchy subject, everyone has a reason for how they feel and no one can lay claim to having "the" one and only proper position, huh?

 

[Caroljo]

20 weeks is FIVE MONTHS...more than halfway through the pregnancy...I think rape or incest victims would know way before that if they're pregnant and they have more than enough time to take care of it! So do you think they should be given the entire 9 months to decide? Maybe abort the baby at 8 1/2month mark? My God. I don't think there should be abortions ever, but if I had to set a time, I would say only 3 months at the latest. Women know if they're pregnant long before that. I agree to give them the option to abort if there were other medical risks during the pregnancy. I would also make it a law that an abortion is illegal if done because of "inconvenience".

 

[gigi]

From a study published in the N.E. Journal of Medicine:

"Recently, physicians who work with very premature infants have begun to consider it reasonable to offer active treatment for babies born at 23 weeks. A 2014 summary of a workshop that involved the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and the American Academy of Pediatrics said “in general, those born at 23 weeks of gestation should be considered potentially viable” as more than a quarter of them survive if treated intensively."
http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...babies-adds-to-questions-for-parents-doctors/

And you can't speak to what is and isn't divine intervention.

 

[JuliefromOhio]

repub/cons should keep their noses out of women's uteruses.

 

[UPNYA2]

repub/cons should keep their noses out of women's uteruses.

Agreed.

And IF women could ever manage to be the ONLY one responsible for everything that their uteruses produce rather than making everyone else pay for it, THEN they might have a good reason to demand that they alone have ANY say whatsoever.

 

[gigi]

Agreed.

And IF women could ever manage to be the ONLY one responsible for everything that their uteruses produce rather than making everyone else pay for it, THEN they might have a good reason to demand that they alone have ANY say whatsoever.

Women don't produce life all by themselves. The men need to be equally responsible.

 

[PhilFish]

Women don't produce life all by themselves. The men need to be equally responsible.

therefore, is it safe to assume that men have the obligation/right to opine on such matters as...whether to bring to term, or abort.... ?

 

[connieb]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/politics/house-gop-abortion-20-weeks/index.html

What about rape victims? What about women with medical preconditions? Do they receive a gift from God himself? I seriously doubt. There is no divine intervention in sexual abuse and there is no God's will when a woman is held hostage by a risky pregnancy. Each situation is different, that's why I advocate pro-choice stance. There is no universal truth. And there is clearly no universal rule for women, their bodies and their babies.

As other's pointed out - you know before 20 weeks if you were the victim of rape and incest, to the idea that you have to leave an exception after that for those cases - doesn't hold water.

Additionally, no one is saying a women has to complete a risky pregnancy to term. You can induce labor ( which is what happens in a late term abortion) and have the woman give birth to a live baby if she has to deliver for her own health. The difference is - do you make sure you kill that baby before its head emerges from the womb or not? There is no difference in the rest of the process between an abortion after 20 weeks and an induced delivery.

So, this legislation does not say you can't be induced early OR that you even have to use extraordinary medical care to save the life of the baby. Only that, you can't kill it on its way out. You can still birth the child and give it at a bare minimum - depending on the wants of the parent, comfort care until if it is too early, the baby passes naturally.

Furthermore, many other countries who allow unfettered access to abortion up to 20 weeks, have very strict rules and bans in place after that term. So, it is not like this is out of step with the rest of the world.

connie

 

[connieb]

therefore, is it safe to assume that men have the obligation/right to opine on such matters as...whether to bring to term, or abort.... ?

Indeed, Phil. I think one of the biggest travesties is how we have removed men from both the obligation of child rearing and also the joys of it, at the same time. Our society has raised and entire generation of men and women to see men as hardly more than sperm donors. Its no wonder that many men, end up acting like that.

connie

 

[Woolleybugger]

Indeed, Phil. I think one of the biggest travesties is how we have removed men from both the obligation of child rearing and also the joys of it, at the same time. Our society has raised and entire generation of men and women to see men as hardly more than sperm donors. Its no wonder that many men, end up acting like that.

connie

This is pure hogwash. Men have been leaving mothers and kids for centuries, this is not new people. What exactly do you think was happening during all those worldwide Gold Rushes? When the West opened up, men left families in the east for years on end. Sailors, soldiers, miners, conquerors all left families for years on end. The big difference now is that there is nothing to support their families anymore. All families are struggling and when women have kids and the men split, they are left in the cold. If we really want to fix this, make good paying jobs for the middle class a priority again. That means unions, public employees, manufacturing, service jobs, construction jobs, etc. We have allowed each individual fight it out against employers for far too long and this has completely destroyed any chance for a single mom to survive. Then you throw in the horrific GOP laws against food stamps, child care, collective bargaining, demonization of teachers and public employees, the list of people they hate is endless.

 

[PhilFish]

Indeed, Phil. I think one of the biggest travesties is how we have removed men from both the obligation of child rearing and also the joys of it, at the same time. Our society has raised and entire generation of men and women to see men as hardly more than sperm donors. Its no wonder that many men, end up acting like that.

connie

they're either equal or not. if a man fathers a child...he has a shared right to the decision making process. IMO.

 

[PhilFish]

This is pure hogwash. Men have been leaving mothers and kids for centuries, this is not new people. What exactly do you think was happening during all those worldwide Gold Rushes? When the West opened up, men left families in the east for years on end. Sailors, soldiers, miners, conquerors all left families for years on end. The big difference now is that there is nothing to support their families anymore. All families are struggling and when women have kids and the men split, they are left in the cold. If we really want to fix this, make good paying jobs for the middle class a priority again. That means unions, public employees, manufacturing, service jobs, construction jobs, etc. We have allowed each individual fight it out against employers for far too long and this has completely destroyed any chance for a single mom to survive. Then you throw in the horrific GOP laws against food stamps, child care, collective bargaining, demonization of teachers and public employees, the list of people they hate is endless.

so you agree. a man is part of the equation..and has every right to opine. yes?

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/politics/house-gop-abortion-20-weeks/index.html

What about rape victims? What about women with medical preconditions? Do they receive a gift from God himself? I seriously doubt. There is no divine intervention in sexual abuse and there is no God's will when a woman is held hostage by a risky pregnancy. Each situation is different, that's why I advocate pro-choice stance. There is no universal truth. And there is clearly no universal rule for women, their bodies and their babies.

Jobs, jobs, jobs!

;-)

 

[connieb]

This is pure hogwash. Men have been leaving mothers and kids for centuries, this is not new people. What exactly do you think was happening during all those worldwide Gold Rushes? When the West opened up, men left families in the east for years on end. Sailors, soldiers, miners, conquerors all left families for years on end. The big difference now is that there is nothing to support their families anymore. All families are struggling and when women have kids and the men split, they are left in the cold. If we really want to fix this, make good paying jobs for the middle class a priority again. That means unions, public employees, manufacturing, service jobs, construction jobs, etc. We have allowed each individual fight it out against employers for far too long and this has completely destroyed any chance for a single mom to survive. Then you throw in the horrific GOP laws against food stamps, child care, collective bargaining, demonization of teachers and public employees, the list of people they hate is endless.

Yeah.. talk about hogwash. Yes, men have always been able to leave. And, yes, many times they left to go make jobs and money to send back home. Sometimes they made it, sometimes they did not.

However, we have rates of out of wedlock births in this country in record numbers. The reality is - we are not even going through the motions of making young men be responsible, for for young women to include the father of her child. And, our laws endorse this. Jobs and food stamps - have nothing to do with making sure you are married and in a committed relationship before you have kids. They are choices.

connie

 

[connieb]

they're either equal or not. if a man fathers a child...he has a shared right to the decision making process. IMO.

I absolutely agree.

 

[gigi]

therefore, is it safe to assume that men have the obligation/right to opine on such matters as...whether to bring to term, or abort.... ?

Abortion is never safe. A life ends everytime.

 

[Arkady]

I would also make it a law that an abortion is illegal if done because of "inconvenience".

Why?

 

[gigi]

This is pure hogwash. Men have been leaving mothers and kids for centuries, this is not new people. What exactly do you think was happening during all those worldwide Gold Rushes? When the West opened up, men left families in the east for years on end. Sailors, soldiers, miners, conquerors all left families for years on end. The big difference now is that there is nothing to support their families anymore. All families are struggling and when women have kids and the men split, they are left in the cold. If we really want to fix this, make good paying jobs for the middle class a priority again. That means unions, public employees, manufacturing, service jobs, construction jobs, etc. We have allowed each individual fight it out against employers for far too long and this has completely destroyed any chance for a single mom to survive. Then you throw in the horrific GOP laws against food stamps, child care, collective bargaining, demonization of teachers and public employees, the list of people they hate is endless.

What are you talking about? Single mothers do the job everyday. They're not all in unions, Woolley. You're doing the typical liberal dance, which can only be choreographed on the backs of some other group.

You say men have been leaving families for centuries. But then the examples you offer are those of men who set out to find work or make fortunes or protect the country.....for their families. Not quite the same thing as what's going on now.

Modern day "feminists" don't want men. They want spineless robots. They want men who will wait to be told if their partners' pregnancies means their own children are living and growing inside their partners, or if the pregnancies only mean that an inconvenient situation has come up and it needs to be "corrected" with a five hundred dollar fix. You want men that wait to find out whether they are allowed to care about, protect, and dream about their unborn children, or think of them only as medical waste.

Modern day "feminists" bitch about the guys who oppose the killing of their children, and they bitch about the guys who feel they should be as entitled as women to opt out of becoming a parent.

The fact is, you can't preach and preach for fifty years about separating sexual activity from its natural consequences and then expect men not to hear any of it and not take the "victim of my own biology" rhetoric to heart, too. When a man decides he doesn't want any part of a pregnancy, there is no surgery he can have to demonstrate his position. There's no federation to support his decision.
It can't be that women who walk away from their unborn children are just women choosing what's "best" for them, but men who do it are skels and losers. What feminists have a problem with is the result when their own rhetoric bites them in the behind.