in a nutshell

[WhistleBlower]

before this gets out of hand, i want to make a few things clear.


- my education and professional experience are in the biological sciences and fine arts. :hippie: :usa2: eace:

- when it comes to fine points of law or economics concepts, i make no pretension to much knowledge of such topics and am honestly running more on gut discernment of right and wrong in discussions through those fields. :hungry: uke: :sorry:

- don't shoot the messenger. just because i've brought these things here does not necessarily mean that i agree with it. i'm merely providing these objects for discussion. :anon:

- no fighting or personal attacks in my threads, please?
:fish: :argue:



let's say we were to fire the entire government and completely reorganize. how would you go about? would you keep things as they are and just replace the people or would you make fundamental changes?



DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS STATEMENT IS ACTUALLY FROM A GROUP LEGITIMATELY ASSOCIATED WITH THE NATIONAL OCCUPY GENERAL ASSEMBLY THAT HAS BEEN CALLED IN PHILADELPHIA JULY 4TH. I'M WAITING FOR CONFIRMATION.

To all people of good conscience on planet Earth,

Over the past few years we have encountered a new phenomenon: a global justice movement. What started in Tunisia has spread through to Egypt, Bahrain, Syria, New York City, Mexico City, Moscow, and Quebec among countless others. Though we have encountered different levels of resistance – and we mourn for our sisters and brothers who have fallen in the struggle – we recognize that we have a common goal: a more peaceful, equitable, and just society. While the media has ignored our cries, our protests, and our revolutions, they cannot ignore the truth: we are winning. One day we will awaken to a brighter day where we will no longer be separated by borders, economies, or the whims and passions of governments. Tears will stream down our faces as joy rises in our hearts as we realize – truly realize – that we are free.

But until that day we must fight on. Here in the US we have not had to withstand the hellfire of mortars raining down on our homes as our sisters and brothers in Syria. We have not had our families beaten in the streets as in Bahrain. We have not had to face a fine of a year’s salary to protest as in Moscow. But we have had to deal with an assault on our dignity. Which is also an assault on yours. In our fight for true democracy we have all acknowledged the universal rights of everyone to food, clothing, shelter, education, healthcare, and gainful employment. But these rights are being systematically denied us a little more every day. We are forced to stand in the shadow of the capitalist behemoth with naught but a stone, a sling, and a hope.

Over the past year the President of the United States passed the National Defense Authorization Act, which gives the government free reign to indefinitely detain dissidents. Coupled with the frightening rate of growth of the drone project we are no longer safe to disagree. They have come for our freedom and we have said nothing. Now they are coming for our dignity. Recently Michael Nutter, the Mayor of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania – the supposed birthplace of freedom and modern democracy– has used an executive order to ban the serving of food in public places. Philadelphia is one of the poorest big cities in the US and as such has an estimated 4,000 homeless individuals. These people – mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, and even veterans – have been denied their self-respect by the terrors of capitalism and are left scouring the streets in the hopes of human kindness. But when the city closes shelters to build new police stations and bans the serving of food, where are they to go? Away. That is the hopes of those in power. They believe that if they sweep these vulnerable victims under a rug that the problem will go away.

Well, we have decided to rebel. We, the good people of Philadelphia, will not stand idly by while ivory towers are built on the backs of the suffering and destitute. We will continue to serve and love those with no one else to love them. We are calling on you to do the same. Defy your governments. Chastise their policies. Rebel against their creeds. We are calling on all people of good conscious to provide a voice for the voiceless.

In the US we are convening a national gathering of the Occupy movement from June 30th to July 4th in Philadelphia. At this Gathering, Occupy activists from all over our country are openly defying this attempt to ban compassion by bringing food to share with the weakest among us. For we do not see class, status, or color: we see our common humanity. The good Earth provides more than enough so that no woman no man and no child should ever go hungry.

And we defy and condemn any attempt to the contrary. Therefore, we wish to send a message to any government, corporation, or individual – where there is no justice there will be no peace. And until that glorious day we sit together at the table of sister and brotherhood we wish to send a message to our comrades: where there is no justice there will be no peace. Join us. Feed the hungry. Clothe the naked. And house the homeless. We stand in solidarity with all those around the world fighting, suffering, and dying for a better world. And we wish to those people we wish to send one final message: We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. And we will win. Stay strong. We love you.

Sincerely,
The National Gathering Working Group

-

 

[worldlymrb]

In a nutshell, we are under a corporate dictatorship by a offshore banking cartel, who seized our Republic with their unlimited credit.

 

[Yuri Zhivago]

nut shell , interesting choice of words in english , so many start with "nut"
like nutcase for example

 

[WhistleBlower]

In a nutshell, we are under a corporate dictatorship by a offshore banking cartel, who seized our Republic with their unlimited credit.

that move was just recently and more like a dropping of the charade when they became confident of their ability to control congress and the supreme court. we got seized when the fed was established 100 years ago.

 

[imreallyperplexed]

WB,

Well, apparently you are more than just a messenger because you seem to agree with MrB who has a well-known ideological position. Given your fingerpointing at the Fed (and you have plenty of company), I have to assume that your views and MrB's views are pretty similar. No insult. Just an observation.

Given the above observation, I have to ask whether the Fed has ever been responsible for something that benefitted you and the nation as a whole. And exactly what crimes do you hold it responsible for? Just curious. Can the messenger answer (in a nutshell)?

that move was just recently and more like a dropping of the charade when they became confident of their ability to control congress and the supreme court. we got seized when the fed was established 100 years ago.

 

[WhistleBlower]

nut shell , interesting choice of words in english , so many start with "nut"
like nutcase for example

so yuri, are you feuding with worldlymrb in the same way that obnoxious canadian fellow goes at it with jack dallas and i can expect you to be sniping at him every time he posts a comment in one of my threads or are you one of those fellows who automatically brand everything contrary to the Belief System (B.S.) you are committed to as crazy, without ever addressing any of the points in contention?

if neither of those cases fit you, please accept my apology in advance for labeling you so. please understand that even though i'm relatively new here, i've been posting volatile media into discussion forums for 15 years and i'm a little gun shy because i truly don't need to prove my manhood to anybody and so many people feel compelled to assert their superiority over me.

i'm here to entertain and be entertained, to teach and to learn. calling people rude names and making absurd off-topic remarks isn't my idea of entertainment or education.

 

[Yuri Zhivago]

so yuri, are you feuding with worldlymrb in the same way that obnoxious canadian fellow goes at it with jack dallas and i can expect you to be sniping at him every time he posts a comment in one of my threads or are you one of those fellows who automatically brand everything contrary to the Belief System (B.S.) you are committed to as crazy, without ever addressing any of the points in contention?

if neither of those cases fit you, please accept my apology in advance for labeling you so. please understand that even though i'm relatively new here, i've been posting volatile media into discussion forums for 15 years and i'm a little gun shy because i truly don't need to prove my manhood to anybody and so many people feel compelled to assert their superiority over me.

i'm here to entertain and be entertained, to teach and to learn. calling people rude names and making absurd off-topic remarks isn't my idea of entertainment or education.

nah, ex- colleague(first education biology as well), just wondering at the marvels of language and ubiquitous "nut" used in certain contents. BTW, other languages do not find "nut" helpful describing similar human failings.
btw, i do not read or respond to the poster going by the name WMB- old habit. I despise ,hate and ignore everything with swastika and conspiratorial anti-semitic fascistic views.

 

[WhistleBlower]

WB,

Well, apparently you are more than just a messenger because you seem to agree with MrB who has a well-known ideological position. Given your fingerpointing at the Fed (and you have plenty of company), I have to assume that your views and MrB's views are pretty similar. No insult. Just an observation.

Given the above observation, I have to ask whether the Fed has ever been responsible for something that benefitted you and the nation as a whole. And exactly what crimes do you hold it responsible for? Just curious. Can the messenger answer (in a nutshell)?

as i said, my training and education are in other areas, but the multi-national industrialist banker-gangsters have kept this world in a perpetual state of war in that past 100 years and have deployed incredibly risky technologies that are causing a lot of observable changes in the biosphere.

these things are clearly observable without going too far afield with conspiracy theories. i like robert anton wilson's model where it's really a completely convoluted cluster f*ck of competing secret societies.

as for mrb, i'm a hebrew-israelite and have serious issues with that flag and the ideology behind it, so please don't mistake the coincidence of our agreeing on this issue with my being supportive of his general philosophy. quite honestly though, i haven't seen him post anything offensive, but then i tune it out when people start yelling at each other.

 

[WhistleBlower]

nah, ex- colleague(first education biology as well), just wondering at the marvels of language and ubiquitous "nut" used in certain contents. BTW, other languages do not find "nut" helpful describing similar human failings.
btw, i do not read or respond to the poster going by the name WMB- old habit. I despise ,hate and ignore everything with swastika and conspiratorial anti-semitic fascistic views.

:yo: anybody in my family who wasn't out of europe by 1935 didn't get out. nuff said?

in this context, the nutshell is the bite-sized morsel of a larger topic; a synopsis to step off from.

 

[gabriel]

declare war to obtain peace!! lol

 

[imreallyperplexed]

as i said, my training and education are in other areas, but the multi-national industrialist banker-gangsters have kept this world in a perpetual state of war in that past 100 years and have deployed incredibly risky technologies that are causing a lot of observable changes in the biosphere.

OK. You have established that you don't base your claims on your training and education. I assume that you base your claims on your own observations and on stuff that you pick up along the way coupled with your own speculations. BTW, I am not a big fan of "multi-national industrialist banker-gangsters." (Is Mitt Romney a multi-national industrialist banker-gangster? How about President Obama? How about Newt Gingrich? Rick Santorum? Ron Paul? (whose son Rand is supporting Mitt Romney)?

these things are clearly observable without going too far afield with conspiracy theories. i like robert anton wilson's model where it's really a completely convoluted cluster f*ck of competing secret societies.

I am guessing that I am a bit more skeptical about what constitutes "clearly observable." I actually had never heard of Robert Anton Wilson but I looked him up on Wikipedia. I assume that this is the guy that you are referring to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Anton_Wilson

Sounds like an interesting guy. I thought that the last comment on the Illuminati was interesting.

as for mrb, i'm a hebrew-israelite and have serious issues with that flag and the ideology behind it, so please don't mistake the coincidence of our agreeing on this issue with my being supportive of his general philosophy. quite honestly though, i haven't seen him post anything offensive, but then i tune it out when people start yelling at each other.

Well, I am also Jewish and I do have serious issues with the swastika. But I don't think that there is a strong connection between the swastika and his beliefs about the "socialist control grid" and what not. And though I would not claim to be an "expert" on the Fed or international finance, I am not totally uneducated in the topic (I have an MBA), I don't find his marshalling of evidence to support his claim to be particularly persuasive. That said, he no doubt sincerely believes what he believes. All I can say is that I don't find him very convincing. I am sure that he feels the same way about me.

 

[gabriel]

in the conspiracy business, faith trumps training and education every time.

 

[KnotaFrayed]

In a nutshell, we are under a corporate dictatorship by a offshore banking cartel, who seized our Republic with their unlimited credit.

Based on your claim, who are you going to vote for or are you not going to vote, helping to ensure that someone else rules your soul? There are other nations you can move to if you hate this one's rule or government so much.

My bet is that you won't because for all your complaints and whining, you know there are few places, if ever, you could have it better. Don't vote and who do you think will and win as a result, leaving those who didn't vote to whine about who was elected by others?

 

[WhistleBlower]

major oil spills are clearly observable. the devastation of warfare is clearly observable. it's pretty hard to miss the damage of mountaintop removal, tar sands and fracking fuel collection.

those guys you list are tools of the great pirates, which is the term buckminster fuller used in operating manual for spaceship earth to label the criminals who controlled the trade routes, particularly the sea lanes, generation after generation since the time of constantine, who have played both ends from the middle of controlled governments in times of peace and war.

the bush family is an old pirate family. there was a recent book called american dynasty about their business and political dealings going back four generations, but it completely avoided all mention of poppy bush's gun and drug deals.

war has turned out to be a very profitable racket, so we get more war than peace, but the pirate families are the ones getting most of the profit. everybody else loses.

an out-of-print book called trading with the enemy 1936-1945 clearly identifies the major players in the industrial sector of what smedley butler and dwight eisenhower called the military-industrial complex and how they collaborated with hitler's people to equip his war machine from the beginning to end. it was said that edsel ford wasn't even sent home from his consulting position until the night before all those ford trucks rolled out in the blitzkreig on poland.

rockefeller used to split loads of venezuelan oil in the canaries or the azores, i forget which, delivering half to patton and half to rommel. the RAF and luftwaffe planes had the same ball bearings in them made in sweden. it's a very eye-opening book -- probably the reason it got taken out of print.

IBM still occasionally gets some flack from holocaust survivors for their provisioning of the business machines that helped the nazis keep those gruesome camp records tabulated.

 

[gabriel]

this from the guy that demands proof?? lol

 

[KnotaFrayed]

major oil spills are clearly observable. the devastation of warfare is clearly observable. it's pretty hard to miss the damage of mountaintop removal, tar sands and fracking fuel collection.

those guys you list are tools of the great pirates, which is the term buckminster fuller used in operating manual for spaceship earth to label the criminals who controlled the trade routes, particularly the sea lanes, generation after generation since the time of constantine, who have played both ends from the middle of controlled governments in times of peace and war.

the bush family is an old pirate family. there was a recent book called american dynasty about their business and political dealings going back four generations, but it completely avoided all mention of poppy bush's gun and drug deals.

war has turned out to be a very profitable racket, so we get more war than peace, but the pirate families are the ones getting most of the profit. everybody else loses.

an out-of-print book called trading with the enemy 1936-1945 clearly identifies the major players in the industrial sector of what smedley butler and dwight eisenhower called the military-industrial complex and how they collaborated with hitler's people to equip his war machine from the beginning to end. it was said that edsel ford wasn't even sent home from his consulting position until the night before all those ford trucks rolled out in the blitzkreig on poland.

rockefeller used to split loads of venezuelan oil in the canaries or the azores, i forget which, delivering half to patton and half to rommel. the RAF and luftwaffe planes had the same ball bearings in them made in sweden. it's a very eye-opening book -- probably the reason it got taken out of print.

IBM still occasionally gets some flack from holocaust survivors for their provisioning of the business machines that helped the nazis keep those gruesome camp records tabulated.

I think a lot of people see these things, yet vote FOR them rather than against them. Why? Perhaps because everyone wants to win the lottery or would not turn down the money. The problem I believe is that few people think very hard about the consequences and impact of the ways they make money and many seem to believe if one is providing jobs and making money, that trumps all, even if the jobs consisted of hiring people to test rat poison or to rip off as many people as one possibly could or knee-capping people who paid their bills a day late.

The irony is that this nation was established in large part as an antithesis of rule strictly by power and influence. The idea was to balance great wealth and influence with the numbers of the masses by comparison.

One person might be able to donate a million dollars, but if they are up against a million people, those million need only donate $1 to equal the same and $2 to double the amount. Either is certainly a lot less than one million dollars.

The suggestion that corporations or other than human entities are the same as individual human beings pits individuals against entities that could be made up of many individuals, but are counted only as one. To me, that throws off the balance of power and influence and places it in the hands of money, not universal human virtuous values. It seems to tempt people to do the opposite of being virtuous. It renders the power of individuals to be even less than it ever was at its worst.

The problem I see is perhaps less corporate control as general attitudes that allow such control to exist or thrive.

Who's allowing it to happen, if not a majority or attitudes that suggest they want to keep the options to be the same open?

 

[WhistleBlower]

this from the guy that demands proof?? lol

if you would at least cite something other than your own hyper-inflated self, as i did here, that would be satisfactory to me.

 

[gabriel]

you get exactly the leaders you deserve

 

[WhistleBlower]

absolutely. we, the people have allowed this to happen, either through complacency or complicity. most pathetic are the nouveau riche and the way they get played by the people holding the liquid assets generation after generation, howard hughes as a good example of that and i'm feeling even bill gates might even find himself chewed up and spit out before it's all said and done.

 

[imreallyperplexed]

Well, I certainly agree that major oil spills, war, and techniques like fracking are problematic. Where I suspect that I am a bit more skeptical than you is that all these disasters are "side-effects" caused by the implacable actions of "corporate gangsters" who care more about amassing personal wealth than advancing the common good of the globe/nation/local community, etc. It is not to say that those kinds of folks do not exist among the "global elite" as it is to say that there is more to it than that. And as KnotaFrayed suggested, it may be that the "exploited" have some complicity in the predicament. Basically, I think that you have observed some important symptoms/effects. I am just not sure that you have diagnosed the cause/causes of the symptoms that you have identified.

So the big question for me is, do you have a favored prospective cure for the problems that you identified? If so, what is it and why would it be workable? Alternately, who do you think does have solutions?

(BTW, do you have a citation or link to passages in the operation manual for spaceship earth where Buckie Fuller wrote what you said he wrote. I have no reason to disbelieve you. I am just curious to read the passage myself. I do know Buckminster Fuller but I would not claim to be an expert on his work.)

major oil spills are clearly observable. the devastation of warfare is clearly observable. it's pretty hard to miss the damage of mountaintop removal, tar sands and fracking fuel collection.

those guys you list are tools of the great pirates, which is the term buckminster fuller used in operating manual for spaceship earth to label the criminals who controlled the trade routes, particularly the sea lanes, generation after generation since the time of constantine, who have played both ends from the middle of controlled governments in times of peace and war.

the bush family is an old pirate family. there was a recent book called american dynasty about their business and political dealings going back four generations, but it completely avoided all mention of poppy bush's gun and drug deals.

war has turned out to be a very profitable racket, so we get more war than peace, but the pirate families are the ones getting most of the profit. everybody else loses.

an out-of-print book called trading with the enemy 1936-1945 clearly identifies the major players in the industrial sector of what smedley butler and dwight eisenhower called the military-industrial complex and how they collaborated with hitler's people to equip his war machine from the beginning to end. it was said that edsel ford wasn't even sent home from his consulting position until the night before all those ford trucks rolled out in the blitzkreig on poland.

rockefeller used to split loads of venezuelan oil in the canaries or the azores, i forget which, delivering half to patton and half to rommel. the RAF and luftwaffe planes had the same ball bearings in them made in sweden. it's a very eye-opening book -- probably the reason it got taken out of print.

IBM still occasionally gets some flack from holocaust survivors for their provisioning of the business machines that helped the nazis keep those gruesome camp records tabulated.