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Interesting Case

Arkady

President
The Supreme Court will be considering whether a bracelet saying "I Love Boobies" is protect speech under the First Amendment, for school children:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...could_decide_the_fate_of_free_speech_for.html

It sounds almost trivial, but I think it's actually extremely important. Over the last few decades, with the Supreme Court having been stuffed with Republicans (for a significant stretch, up until the Obama administration, seven Republicans to only two Democrats), the overall trend has been a roll-back of civil liberties in school. For example, these days there are practically no limitations on unreasonable searches and seizures of children on public school grounds. They can even be forced to pee in a cup on the perverse whim of school officials, with not so much as an inkling of suspicion of drug use, if they want to participate in any extracurricular activities.

This, predictably, has consequences for our nation. When you take children at an impressionable age and train them to see themselves as having no civil rights -- train them to submit to the demands of authorities no matter how unreasonable -- these children don't magically graduate from school to become citizens who zealously defend their Constitutional rights against government overreach. When you train children in the manner authorized by the courts during the last few decades, you raise generations of Americans who fully expect to have the government pry into their personal business with no reasonable basis, no warrants, no checks and balances.

If you look around the country today and find yourself confused as to how we degenerated into a nation of bleating sheep, eager to submit to the nearest shepherd figure, look no further than the degeneration of civil rights in our school systems. Look to Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier, New Jersey v. T.L. O. , Bethel School District v. Fraser, Veronia School District v. Acton, Board of Education of Pottawatomie County v. Earls, and other Supreme Court cases, all pushed through by a Republican majority, that came down against the idea that students have various basic cvil rights.

It was not always this way. As recently as the 1960s and 70s, the trend was in the other direction, before the court got packed with conservative ringers. Tinker v. Des Moines, decided in 1969, stood for the simple, and elegantly worded notion that students do not leave their rights at the school house door. Goss v. Lopez, in 1975, gave students due process protections for things like suspension reviews. But it's been all downhill fast since the 1980s. There's some hope, with the adorable Boobies case, that the court may finally move in the other direction. The court still leans Republican, but only by a 5-to-4 split. I've got my questions about Kagan, who was a poor choice by Obama, but assuming she stands up for students rights in this case, that'll probably mean drawing off just one of the five Republicans would be enough to stop the slide into schoolhouse totalitarianism and set the first real precedent for expanded student civil rights since the mid 1970s. That, in turn, could signal a wider improvement for the nation as a whole, as a new generation of kids grew up believing they actually have some rights against authority figures. That's how you educate a nation of citizens.
 
The Supreme Court will be considering whether a bracelet saying "I Love Boobies" is protect speech under the First Amendment, for school children:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...could_decide_the_fate_of_free_speech_for.html

It sounds almost trivial, but I think it's actually extremely important. Over the last few decades, with the Supreme Court having been stuffed with Republicans (for a significant stretch, up until the Obama administration, seven Republicans to only two Democrats), the overall trend has been a roll-back of civil liberties in school. For example, these days there are practically no limitations on unreasonable searches and seizures of children on public school grounds. They can even be forced to pee in a cup on the perverse whim of school officials, with not so much as an inkling of suspicion of drug use, if they want to participate in any extracurricular activities.

This, predictably, has consequences for our nation. When you take children at an impressionable age and train them to see themselves as having no civil rights -- train them to submit to the demands of authorities no matter how unreasonable -- these children don't magically graduate from school to become citizens who zealously defend their Constitutional rights against government overreach. When you train children in the manner authorized by the courts during the last few decades, you raise generations of Americans who fully expect to have the government pry into their personal business with no reasonable basis, no warrants, no checks and balances.

If you look around the country today and find yourself confused as to how we degenerated into a nation of bleating sheep, eager to submit to the nearest shepherd figure, look no further than the degeneration of civil rights in our school systems. Look to Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier, New Jersey v. T.L. O. , Bethel School District v. Fraser, Veronia School District v. Acton, Board of Education of Pottawatomie County v. Earls, and other Supreme Court cases, all pushed through by a Republican majority, that came down against the idea that students have various basic cvil rights.

It was not always this way. As recently as the 1960s and 70s, the trend was in the other direction, before the court got packed with conservative ringers. Tinker v. Des Moines, decided in 1969, stood for the simple, and elegantly worded notion that students do not leave their rights at the school house door. Goss v. Lopez, in 1975, gave students due process protections for things like suspension reviews. But it's been all downhill fast since the 1980s. There's some hope, with the adorable Boobies case, that the court may finally move in the other direction. The court still leans Republican, but only by a 5-to-4 split. I've got my questions about Kagan, who was a poor choice by Obama, but assuming she stands up for students rights in this case, that'll probably mean drawing off just one of the five Republicans would be enough to stop the slide into schoolhouse totalitarianism and set the first real precedent for expanded student civil rights since the mid 1970s. That, in turn, could signal a wider improvement for the nation as a whole, as a new generation of kids grew up believing they actually have some rights against authority figures. That's how you educate a nation of citizens.

I always thought boobies was a dumb word to use, but I suspect they wouldn't want my word.

As for the drug testing, especially in intramural sports, I don't see anything wrong with drug testing. There's way too much pressure to use PED's, even by coaches. This may actually protect kids.
 
And yet, most Republican voters seem to believe that it is the Democrats who stole their civil rights from them.

Then again, they also tend to still believe in trickle-down economics... :(
 
The difficult thing for schools is they do have to regulate in some cases but they probably should pick their cases a bit better. That an immature student may run with a breast cancer bracelet because they have raging hormones is probably not a reason to act. Raging hormone abuse has its own category of punishment in the classroom settings.

I fully understand the school's concern about the message on the bracelets conveying a double entendre as that is a given with that age group for some. Since acting out is punishable already, wearing a bracelet to address breast cancer stands on its own merit imo and wearing it does not automatically cause the students with the bracelet to inherit the responsibility for others acting out in ways that are inappropriate.

It really is a slippery slope. Keep in mind I don't actually believe in UNLIMITED free speech in school environments but this is no where near a line I would draw.
 
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The Supreme Court will be considering whether a bracelet saying "I Love Boobies" is protect speech under the First Amendment, for school children:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...could_decide_the_fate_of_free_speech_for.html

It sounds almost trivial, but I think it's actually extremely important. Over the last few decades, with the Supreme Court having been stuffed with Republicans (for a significant stretch, up until the Obama administration, seven Republicans to only two Democrats), the overall trend has been a roll-back of civil liberties in school. For example, these days there are practically no limitations on unreasonable searches and seizures of children on public school grounds. They can even be forced to pee in a cup on the perverse whim of school officials, with not so much as an inkling of suspicion of drug use, if they want to participate in any extracurricular activities.

This, predictably, has consequences for our nation. When you take children at an impressionable age and train them to see themselves as having no civil rights -- train them to submit to the demands of authorities no matter how unreasonable -- these children don't magically graduate from school to become citizens who zealously defend their Constitutional rights against government overreach. When you train children in the manner authorized by the courts during the last few decades, you raise generations of Americans who fully expect to have the government pry into their personal business with no reasonable basis, no warrants, no checks and balances.

If you look around the country today and find yourself confused as to how we degenerated into a nation of bleating sheep, eager to submit to the nearest shepherd figure, look no further than the degeneration of civil rights in our school systems. Look to Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier, New Jersey v. T.L. O. , Bethel School District v. Fraser, Veronia School District v. Acton, Board of Education of Pottawatomie County v. Earls, and other Supreme Court cases, all pushed through by a Republican majority, that came down against the idea that students have various basic cvil rights.

It was not always this way. As recently as the 1960s and 70s, the trend was in the other direction, before the court got packed with conservative ringers. Tinker v. Des Moines, decided in 1969, stood for the simple, and elegantly worded notion that students do not leave their rights at the school house door. Goss v. Lopez, in 1975, gave students due process protections for things like suspension reviews. But it's been all downhill fast since the 1980s. There's some hope, with the adorable Boobies case, that the court may finally move in the other direction. The court still leans Republican, but only by a 5-to-4 split. I've got my questions about Kagan, who was a poor choice by Obama, but assuming she stands up for students rights in this case, that'll probably mean drawing off just one of the five Republicans would be enough to stop the slide into schoolhouse totalitarianism and set the first real precedent for expanded student civil rights since the mid 1970s. That, in turn, could signal a wider improvement for the nation as a whole, as a new generation of kids grew up believing they actually have some rights against authority figures. That's how you educate a nation of citizens.


Similar to the "Bong Hits for Jesus" case. If you don't remember that one, a couple of students made up a banner with the above mentioned phrase, and stood on private property across from the school and held up the banner while the Olympic torch relay went past. The students got suspended, and the case went all the way to the USSC.

They lost. The USSC gave the schools a wide leeway in disciplining students they thought had violated school policy by exercising their free speech.

I understand that there are consequences to free speech, but there shouldn't be any for innocuous sayings and posters. Hopefully this case will see the retraction of some of the limits that have been put on free speech.
 
Are the bracelets detracting from education in any way? If they are then they've got to go. I find it difficult to believe that the students who have worn these bracelets to school did not expect to elicit some sort of reaction from their fellow students based solely on the word 'boobies'.
 
Are the bracelets detracting from education in any way? If they are then they've got to go. I find it difficult to believe that the students who have worn these bracelets to school did not expect to elicit some sort of reaction from their fellow students based solely on the word 'boobies'.

My understanding is that the bracelets were designed to attract attention to the cause of fighting breast cancer, not unlike the recent "Save the Tatas" campaign. If bracelets designed to attract attention are to be banned from schools, then all of them should be banned -- boobies, or no boobies.

People are attempting to eradicate the taboo associated with female breasts so as to enhance the sharing of information about breast cancer.
 
We must keep boobies out of sight and out of mind for the sake of the children.

Boobies are a gateway. If kids get access to boobies, it could lead to nookie, cooties and eventually, eternal hellfire.

Just Say No to Boobies!

Hahaha, no matter how hard I try, I can't do it.
 
I like boobs a lot...


The Fugs? I remember cracking up the first time I heard "Skin Flower".

Discovered them and the Mothers of Invention at about the same time.

Ed Sanders is a footnote now. But he had his day.

awww.southernfm.com.au_wp_content_uploads_2013_03_life1.jpg
 
The Fugs? I remember cracking up the first time I heard "Skin Flower".

Discovered them and the Mothers of Invention at about the same time.

Ed Sanders is a footnote now. But he had his day.

View attachment 22767

Ah, The Family. I met Brooks Poston years later. Nice guy, decent musician. I didn't know his background at the time, mentioned his name to a drinking buddy...and he got all excited...BROOKS POSTON!!!...and immediately ran to the video store to rent the movie. It is a small world.



Ed Sanders likes to refer to himself as the only beatnik who can yodel. A countercultural icon, he co-founded the raunchy, avant-garde rock band The Fugs and was instrumental in the Youth International Party — commonly called the Yippies.

The 72-year-old is also a classical scholar who wrote a best-selling book about the Manson family. His latest book is a memoir, Fug You, about life on New York's Lower East Side in the 1960s — a slum, back when Sanders lived there...

...He gave them to writers and artists, some of whom would soon gain fame in the underground comic book scene. And he opened the Peace Eye bookstore, near Tompkins Square Park, where he recalls The Fugs drawing crowds of thousands to free concerts.

In his memoir, Sanders refers to the Lower East Side as a "little zone of revolution." He and several other founders of the Yippies lived there, and played key roles in the anti-war movement's "exorcism" of the Pentagon and the protests at the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago...

...Sanders says much of the political and cultural activity of the era was fomented on the Lower East Side. In addition to political activists, writers and artists, the neighborhood was full of musicians like Peter Stampfel, a member of both The Fugs and The Holy Modal Rounders.

"The main thing about the scene back then was that there was this amazing feeling that something wonderful and amazing was going to happen inevitably," Stampfel says.

But the '60s faded into the '70s, and Sanders disbanded The Fugs. He went on to write The Family, about the Manson family, and release a solo record. He also decided to leave the Lower East Side.

"We saw a couple of people murdered in the streets outside of our house," Sanders says. It was time to go.

Eventually Sanders landed in Woodstock, in upstate New York...


http://www.npr.org/2012/05/05/152029486/fug-you-the-wild-life-of-ed-sanders
 
Similar to the "Bong Hits for Jesus" case. If you don't remember that one, a couple of students made up a banner with the above mentioned phrase, and stood on private property across from the school and held up the banner while the Olympic torch relay went past. The students got suspended, and the case went all the way to the USSC.

They lost. The USSC gave the schools a wide leeway in disciplining students they thought had violated school policy by exercising their free speech.

I understand that there are consequences to free speech, but there shouldn't be any for innocuous sayings and posters. Hopefully this case will see the retraction of some of the limits that have been put on free speech.
Yep, I disagreed strongly with that case. I hope we start to move back in the direction of treating public school students as young citizens, or at least citizens-in-training, rather than inmates.
 
I always thought boobies was a dumb word to use, but I suspect they wouldn't want my word.

As for the drug testing, especially in intramural sports, I don't see anything wrong with drug testing. There's way too much pressure to use PED's, even by coaches. This may actually protect kids.
We're not talking here, about testing athletes for PEDs. There's an argument in favor of such testing simply as a way to keep the playing field level. The problem with PEDs is that they create an unhealthy arms race among competitors, where people get dominated by opponents who are less talented and hard-working simply due to advanced chemistry, and so they feel the need to step up and risk their health the same way, and you get a potential spiral of damaging behavior. If schools limited the tests only to athletes in competitive sports and only PEDs, I wouldn't object. However, that's not what they're doing. They're also testing for drugs that are anything but performance enhancing (like marijuana) and they're testing ALL extra-curriculars, including things like the student newspaper or the math club. That's not about leveling the playing field to prevent students from having to poison themselves to compete on even footing. It's about controlling kids.
 
Are the bracelets detracting from education in any way? If they are then they've got to go. I find it difficult to believe that the students who have worn these bracelets to school did not expect to elicit some sort of reaction from their fellow students based solely on the word 'boobies'.
Pretty much any clothing or speech could distract from education. The more you try to stamp out "distraction," the more distracting any individual bit of exhibition that slips through will be. I saw that with my brother in a Catholic school. Everyone was forced to wear the same uniforms, and so the students simply worked on ways to differentiate themselves in whatever small ways they could without technically violating the dress code -- for example, neon orange shoelaces in their regulation shoes (the code said nothing about shoelaces), or marijuana-shaped earrings, or goth makeup. They wound up MORE distracted, since they were very consciously engaged in a semi-covert contest with the administration at all times, and that made them very conscious of which fellow students were scoring the most points in that contest. Declaring war on distraction is a self-defeating strategy.

Even aside from that practical consideration, though, there's the FACT that students are citizens, and citizens are meant to have certain rights, including those guaranteed by the first and fourth amendments. At least for those required by law to attend school, there's no justification for stripping them of their rights for half their waking hours in the vain hope of curbing a little "distraction." They're Americans!
 
I disagree with you Arkady, students are not full-citizens. There are many things they cannot do and with good reason. I do not agree with letting inmates run their asylum, and yes, I said it.
 
My understanding is that the bracelets were designed to attract attention to the cause of fighting breast cancer, not unlike the recent "Save the Tatas" campaign. If bracelets designed to attract attention are to be banned from schools, then all of them should be banned -- boobies, or no boobies.

People are attempting to eradicate the taboo associated with female breasts so as to enhance the sharing of information about breast cancer.
Agreed. By definition, all bracelets are designed to call attention to themselves, including not only those with political messages (like those yellow Livestrong bracelets everyone used to wear), but even just decorative ones. A person doesn't spend a hundred bucks on a non-functional decoration in the hopes nobody will notice it. I suppose we could have students all shave their heads and don identical white uniforms like THX-1138, in the hopes of minimizing distraction, but is that really how we want to raise our next generation of citizens?

acdn.mos.totalfilm.com_images_t_thx_1138_1971__650_75.jpg
 
I disagree with you Arkady, students are not full-citizens. There are many things they cannot do and with good reason. I do not agree with letting inmates run their asylum, and yes, I said it.
There are limits that, rightly or wrongly, the American public places on the underaged, like a rule against drinking alcohol until you're 21 or smoking until you're 18. But what we're talking about, in this instance, isn't an effort to protect a growing body from some long-term health problems until the person is old enough to make an informed decision on the subject. We're talking about limiting their First Amendment rights to prevent a little tittering about boobies. It's the fascist impulse at its finest.

Plus, let's remember that SOME of these students actually are full-fledged citizens. They have the vote. The males have to register with selective service. They pay taxes. They can be called to serve on a jury. If they sign a contract, it's treated as just as legally binding as if a 40-year-old does. They are tried as adults if they break the law. Yet, if they haven't graduated yet, they can't be trusted to decide whether a double-entrendre bracelet is a good way to call attention to an important healthcare issue?!
 
I'd settle for our next generation of citizens understanding that the world doesn't revolve around them and that actions have consequences.
 
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