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Interesting Economic Fact

Arkady

President
Guess how many recessions, since 1950, have started under Republican presidents, and how many have started under Democrats. The answers may surprise you:

Republicans: 9 (2007, 2001, 1990, 1981, 1973, 1969, 1960, 1957, 1953)
Democrats: 1 (1980)

That's one recession in about 29 years and three months of Democrats, and 9 recessions in 36 years of Republicans. That's enough for one recession for each four-year Republican term. Interestingly, the one recession that started under a Democrat, in that era, was also the shortest recession in American history -- a mere six months.
 
i'm not sure the eisenhower administration counts as 3 seperate recessions. most historians point to this era as "powtwar boom times" for detroit, new housing construction, televisions, refrigerators . .. but i don't doubt your ability to come up with some slanted government or private study asserting the nation was in misery, lol

reagan's "recession" was the result of cleaning up 4 years of carter "staglation" with consumer interest rate through the roof, and people being told to wear sweaters, turn their thermostats down, and pretend it was daylight savings time year round.

no quarrel on the 2007 recession - it was, in fact caused by a democrat controlled congress serving during the bush administration. they championed the idea that fannie mae and freddie mac should "mainstream" the riskiest mortgage products to customers. even barney frank admits that now.
 
i'm not sure the eisenhower administration counts as 3 seperate recessions. most historians point to this era as "powtwar boom times" for detroit, new housing construction, televisions, refrigerators . .. but i don't doubt your ability to come up with some slanted government or private study asserting the nation was in misery, lol

reagan's "recession" was the result of cleaning up 4 years of carter "staglation" with consumer interest rate through the roof, and people being told to wear sweaters, turn their thermostats down, and pretend it was daylight savings time year round.

no quarrel on the 2007 recession - it was, in fact caused by a democrat controlled congress serving during the bush administration. they championed the idea that fannie mae and freddie mac should "mainstream" the riskiest mortgage products to customers. even barney frank admits that now.

Proving once again that Pugs are impervious to facts - almost all recessions were during GOP presidencies, but they were the Dems' fault.

;-)
 
Another fact based but completely meaningless screed from our resident economic propagandist. Nothing to see here...move along...
 
Proving once again that Pugs are impervious to facts - almost all recessions were during GOP presidencies, but they were the Dems' fault.

;-)

They could see data to the moon and back and still be in denial, they're funny that way... :rolleyes:
 
i'm not sure the eisenhower administration counts as 3 seperate recessions.

I'm sure we can dispute a number of the recessions. But, rather than picking and choosing which I agreed with, I simply deferred to the call made by the National Bureau of Economic Research, which is as close as we have to an official arbiter of business cycle dates. They count three separate Eisenhower recessions.

I think the reputation of that era for boom times is based in large part on relief, following years of hardship, first from the Great Depression, then WWII, then the Korean War. People had grown up with a severely depressed economy, followed by wartime scarcities and rationing, and they were suddenly in a normal economy for the first time in decades. I'm sure it looked damned good to them in context. But, by modern standards, it wasn't great. Look at pretty much any indicator of economic performance and his time ranks very low among the post-war presidents.

http://www.forbes.com/2004/07/20/cx_da_0720presidents.html

Of the ten presidents in that era (which stopped before GW Bush), Eisenhower was 8th for GDP growth, 7th for disposable personal income, ninth for employment, ninth for unemployment, and seventh for inflation. The only one where he was even median was deficit reduction. Granted, with GW Bush now added to the ranks, and likely coming in last for most of those indicators (other than inflation), Ike will have creeped up the rankings in relative terms. But it still isn't great.

reagan's "recession" was the result of cleaning up 4 years of carter "staglation"

I could argue that Carter's "recession" was a result of the same thing: Paul Volcker hiking interest rates to address the inflation problem that had taken hold starting in the Nixon and Ford eras. After all, Volcker became the Fed Chairman in August of '79 and immediately started hiking interest rates severely -- effective federal funds rates were 13.78% by December of '79, and a recession predictably started in January 1980. He slashed rates in June 1980, and the recession ended. Then he hiked them again in late 1980 and in 1981, and we got another recession -- then he cut them by over half later in the 80s and we got a boom.

So, there's some truth to the notion that those recessions were at least as much about monetary policy for fighting inflation as about any presidential leadership. So, say I stipulated that you could strike the Reagan recession if I could strike the Carter recession? Then the new rankings would be 8 to 0, with ALL the modern recessions starting under Republicans. Better?

no quarrel on the 2007 recession - it was, in fact caused by a democrat controlled congress serving during the bush administration. they championed the idea that fannie mae and freddie mac should "mainstream" the riskiest mortgage products to customers. even barney frank admits that now.

Fannie and Freddie had almost nothing to do with the meltdown. For starters, the greatest inflation of the market happened at exactly the time when Fannie and Freddie were doing the smallest share of the lending:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/things-everyone-in-chicago-knows/

Fannie and Freddie also weren't major players in the move to subprime lending. The Federal Reserve has studied this and found that 84% of subprime mortgages, in the peak of the bubble, were by private lenders (and only 1 out of 25 of them was pressured by government to lend to minorities).

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/10/12/53802/private-sector-loans-not-fannie.html

And there wasn't any significant disproportion of default rates between the subprimes attributable to the government, and those that were independent from the government. They both defaulted at about the same rate:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...reddie-didnt-cause-the-housing-crisis/250121/

This was principally a private-sector fools-gold rush, with the government lenders just along for the ride.

If Fannie and Freddie were the driving players, what we'd expect to see would be a housing decline that was mostly confined to cheaper homes (Fannie and Freddie don't do jumbo mortgages), and which didn't really take off in places where many homes are investment properties and vacation homes, like the Sun Belt (Fannie and Freddie have various rules that make most of their loans go to owner-occupied primary residences). And, of course, if Fannie and Freddie were the driving players, there wouldn't have been a meltdown in commercial real estate, which they don't do, nor a meltdown in foreign housing markets, which they can't touch, nor would the contagion have spread to the financial markets (since Fannie and Freddie had no ability to force investment banks to buy up those mortgages, securitize and resell them, etc. That was a private-sector decision).

Right-wingers have been trying to find a way to blame the government for the financial meltdown from the start, since the alternative is to recognize it as a classic private sector market failing: a speculative bubble followed by a crash. For those who worship private markets, the idea that they could fail is hard to swallow, no matter how many times they watch it happen. So, some bit player like Fannie and Freddie will be selected and blamed for the problem, even when any serious look at the data will make it clear that their mistake was simply mirroring what the private sector was doing.
 
Facts interest me. They scare you.

Only when you can use them to weave a false narrative that everything anyone with a "D" behind their name does is always good. That kind of (shameless) ideological fealty scares me.
 
Only when you can use them to weave a false narrative that everything anyone with a "D" behind their name does is always good. That kind of (shameless) ideological fealty scares me.
As you know, I've attacked plenty of things that people with D behind their name have done, pointing out how much harm they did. For example, Obama foolishly made the vast majority of Bush's tax cuts permanent, which has greatly increased the pressure to throttle government spending growth, by permanently hamstringing federal revenues. The "D" doesn't change the fact that was a disastrous mistake.
 
As you know, I've attacked plenty of things that people with D behind their name have done, pointing out how much harm they did. For example, Obama foolishly made the vast majority of Bush's tax cuts permanent, which has greatly increased the pressure to throttle government spending growth, by permanently hamstringing federal revenues. The "D" doesn't change the fact that was a disastrous mistake.

Hahaha! And then you voted for him (again). You have zero credibility...
 
Hahaha! And then you voted for him (again). You have zero credibility...
Look at the alternative. Romney had systematically eliminated every policy difference between himself and George W. Bush -- the worst president in at least 100 years. With Romney running essentially a bid for a third Bush term, while Obama was an underwhelming candidate, but one with several key successes to his name and some clear policy differences with the catastrophic presidency that preceded him, my choice was pretty clear. If nothing else, Obama had been pulling us out of Iraq, which was the biggest mistake of the Bush presidency, while Romney hadn't offered any indication that he considered the invasion of Iraq to have been a bad idea. Why risk putting the nation's fate in the hands of an imbecile like that?
 
Look at the alternative. Romney had systematically eliminated every policy difference between himself and George W. Bush -- the worst president in at least 100 years. With Romney running essentially a bid for a third Bush term, while Obama was an underwhelming candidate, but one with several key successes to his name and some clear policy differences with the catastrophic presidency that preceded him, my choice was pretty clear. If nothing else, Obama had been pulling us out of Iraq, which was the biggest mistake of the Bush presidency, while Romney hadn't offered any indication that he considered the invasion of Iraq to have been a bad idea. Why risk putting the nation's fate in the hands of an imbecile like that?

So, like I said...you still voted for him. At that point you endorsed everything he did in his first term. Your choice will always fall with the most Marxist candidate, because you are a Marxist.
 
So, like I said...you still voted for him. At that point you endorsed everything he did in his first term. Your choice will always fall with the most Marxist candidate, because you are a Marxist.
Is it your position that everyone who votes for someone in a second term endorses everything the person did in the first term? Would you apply the same thinking to yourself?

I suppose that if you never vote for anyone with a chance to win, that's something you can get away with. But for those of us who want to have a meaningful role in the democracy, that frequently involves having to pick the lesser of two evils, and that doesn't mean endorsing everything that person did.
 
Is it your position that everyone who votes for someone in a second term endorses everything the person did in the first term? Would you apply the same thinking to yourself?

I suppose that if you never vote for anyone with a chance to win, that's something you can get away with. But for those of us who want to have a meaningful role in the democracy, that frequently involves having to pick the lesser of two evils, and that doesn't mean endorsing everything that person did.

You hint at what I think sets today's iteration of the GOP apart from any prior major party iterations in the recent past. They hate on anything and everything the Obama/Dems do, and gleefully parrot anything even hinting at negative polling in their regards. Yet, they seem oblivious to the fact that their GOP is offering up virtually NOTHING in the alternative, nor is any negative Dem polling resulting in any positive GOP polling.
 
Is it your position that everyone who votes for someone in a second term endorses everything the person did in the first term? Would you apply the same thinking to yourself?

I suppose that if you never vote for anyone with a chance to win, that's something you can get away with. But for those of us who want to have a meaningful role in the democracy, that frequently involves having to pick the lesser of two evils, and that doesn't mean endorsing everything that person did.

Just that you, indeed, want to see more of it what that person stands for. Look, you can say you don't agree with everything a candidate does, but when you vote in a kneejerk for always and everywhere the most leftist candidate, and your "criticisms" of him or her are that he/she didn't act "progressive" enough, you simply can't make that claim in the context of suggesting that you take some sort of "even handed" approach to the political process. That's the context I'm using to call you out here - that you "criticisms" of political aren't any indication of your lack of fealty to a political ideology. I, on the other hand, can point to my votes for Gore and Kerry to show I truly opposed the false "conservativism" of George W. Bush - THAT is acting on your core principles, not voting for him anyway because he was the more "conservative" candidate. That, in a nutshell, is the difference between a guy like me (who really has principles) and a guy like you (who just has an ideology).
 
Just that you, indeed, want to see more of it what that person stands for. Look, you can say you don't agree with everything a candidate does, but when you vote in a kneejerk for always and everywhere the most leftist candidate, and your "criticisms" of him or her are that he/she didn't act "progressive" enough, you simply can't make that claim in the context of suggesting that you take some sort of "even handed" approach to the political process. That's the context I'm using to call you out here - that you "criticisms" of political aren't any indication of your lack of fealty to a political ideology. I, on the other hand, can point to my votes for Gore and Kerry to show I truly opposed the false "conservativism" of George W. Bush - THAT is acting on your core principles, not voting for him anyway because he was the more "conservative" candidate. That, in a nutshell, is the difference between a guy like me (who really has principles) and a guy like you (who just has an ideology).
So, did you endorse everything about Kerry and Gore when you voted for them?
 
So, did you endorse everything about Kerry and Gore when you voted for them?

No but I don't always vote for the most left or right wing candidate because I am not an ideologue, and I'm looking for the right political mix to best meet the national goals as set in motion by our founding fathers. You always vote for the most left wing candidate and then complain that they aren't Marxist enough to suit you. Those aren't the same thing whatsoever.
 
No but I don't always vote for the most left or right wing candidate because I am not an ideologue, and I'm looking for the right political mix to best meet the national goals as set in motion by our founding fathers. You always vote for the most left wing candidate and then complain that they aren't Marxist enough to suit you. Those aren't the same thing whatsoever.
Incorrect. I voted for Gore in 2000. Nader was the most left wing.
 
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