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Interesting Question

Zam-Zam

Senator
Walter Williams posed a legitimate query in one of his recent columns. If anyone would care to discuss this (minus the flame-throwers), I think this is a fair topic for intelligent discussion:


Earlier this month, the 50th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act was celebrated. During the act's legislative debate, then-Sen. Hubert Humphrey, responding to predictions, promised, "I'll eat my hat if this leads to racial quotas." I don't know whether Humphrey got around to keeping his promise, but here's my question: Is it within the capacity of black Americans to make it in this society without the special favors variously called racial preferences, quotas, affirmative action and race-sensitive policies? What might a "yes" answer to that question assume and imply about blacks? Likewise, what would a "no" answer assume and imply?

http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2014/07/23/do-blacks-need-favors-n1864237


Thoughts?
 
Walter Williams posed a legitimate query in one of his recent columns. If anyone would care to discuss this (minus the flame-throwers), I think this is a fair topic for intelligent discussion:


Earlier this month, the 50th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act was celebrated. During the act's legislative debate, then-Sen. Hubert Humphrey, responding to predictions, promised, "I'll eat my hat if this leads to racial quotas." I don't know whether Humphrey got around to keeping his promise, but here's my question: Is it within the capacity of black Americans to make it in this society without the special favors variously called racial preferences, quotas, affirmative action and race-sensitive policies? What might a "yes" answer to that question assume and imply about blacks? Likewise, what would a "no" answer assume and imply?

http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2014/07/23/do-blacks-need-favors-n1864237


Thoughts?

Without flame throwing, it really isn't that hard to eek out a comfortable living in the US. Free schooling up to college, and tuition assistance after that. In a decent economy,there are more employers than employees, making employees worth more, and, aside from government hoops, buying a house and a car is a piece of cake.

You teally have to be phoning it in to not make a place for yourself in America.
 
Is it within the capacity of black Americans to make it in this society without the special favors variously called racial preferences, quotas, affirmative action and race-sensitive policies?
Yes.
Is it within the initiative of black Americans to make it in this society without the special favors variously called racial preferences, quotas, affirmative action and race-sensitive policies?
Only a segment of that demographic.


White, brown, red, or black... each of these races have varying percentages who lack the initiative to make it own their own. There may be "speed bumps", but the segregation policies of our education system are long gone. Housing, employment, socializing... If you will have the initiative to act, dress, and speak professionally... If you will have the initiative to show respect for your fellow man and his property... If you will have the initiative to finish each level of school you begin... If you will have the initiative required to show up, show up sober, show up ready to learn or work... Ladies and gentlemen of all races have proven success is not restricted simply by the color of your skin.
 
Walter Williams posed a legitimate query in one of his recent columns. If anyone would care to discuss this (minus the flame-throwers), I think this is a fair topic for intelligent discussion:


Earlier this month, the 50th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act was celebrated. During the act's legislative debate, then-Sen. Hubert Humphrey, responding to predictions, promised, "I'll eat my hat if this leads to racial quotas." I don't know whether Humphrey got around to keeping his promise, but here's my question: Is it within the capacity of black Americans to make it in this society without the special favors variously called racial preferences, quotas, affirmative action and race-sensitive policies? What might a "yes" answer to that question assume and imply about blacks? Likewise, what would a "no" answer assume and imply?

http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2014/07/23/do-blacks-need-favors-n1864237


Thoughts?
Absolutely yes, it is possible. I have seen it happen to several black families--before even the Civil Rights Act. Of course, they took the initiative to save enough money to get away from the South in the 50s and start in the West where there were few blacks and little prejudice. It took sacrifice and hard work, but make it they did.

In the big cities I doubt if many of them could make it. They have been through generations of welfare survival and little in the way of encouragement to get out and make it. I think throwing more hand-outs has a bad effect on these people. It certainly doesn't do anything to make them yearn to get out and put in the effort it takes to get ahead.
 
It's time has passed and the affirmative action gravy train needs to end. He didn't eat his hat but definitely should have.

It's time has passed and the affirmative action gravy train needs to end. He didn't eat his hat but definitely should have.

No the fact they were concentrated in poor ghettos and there is a history of slavery and segregation that ended just in the 60s has nothing to do with it.



You either think the disparity is because black people are inherently inferior or because of some social/historical issue. I choose the latter.

Of course its possible, but trends are trends for a reason.
 
No the fact they were concentrated in poor ghettos and there is a history of slavery and segregation that ended just in the 60s has nothing to do with it.



You either think the disparity is because black people are inherently inferior or because of some social/historical issue. I choose the latter.

Of course its possible, but trends are trends for a reason.

There is a disparity because too many blacks are dependent on government handouts to get by in this country. Blacks haven't prospered the way the other "slave races" did because government made it so that they didn't have to.
 
There is a disparity because too many blacks are dependent on government handouts to get by in this country. Blacks haven't prospered the way the other "slave races" did because government made it so that they didn't have to.

What other slave race would that be that was enslaved 400 years then segregated another 100?
You do realize in other countries social handouts, if you want to call them that, are far, far higher, then here?
Go into an urban city ghetto and tell me they dont have to prosper because the government made it so they dont have to. They are, for the most part I dont want to generalize, living in drug infested, gang infested, high density poverty with their whole neighborhood black.

When you put white people in the same situation, they suffer the same way, and they dont have the history.

But yeah, its not the 500 years of slavery and degradation but the pittance of pathetic money they are given to barely survive in ghettos of horror.

Its the repeated culture of growing up in those areas that are the problem, not the cultural of getting a check to barely survive.
 
What other slave race would that be that was enslaved 400 years then segregated another 100?
You do realize in other countries social handouts, if you want to call them that, are far, far higher, then here?
Go into an urban city ghetto and tell me they dont have to prosper because the government made it so they dont have to. They are, for the most part I dont want to generalize, living in drug infested, gang infested, high density poverty with their whole neighborhood black.

When you put white people in the same situation, they suffer the same way, and they dont have the history.

But yeah, its not the 500 years of slavery and degradation but the pittance of pathetic money they are given to barely survive in ghettos of horror.

Its the repeated culture of growing up in those areas that are the problem, not the cultural of getting a check to barely survive.

Ah, so you have an excuse for why you think blacks are inferior to everyone else. Barry seemed to overcome 400 years of slavery and 100 years of segregation to become the worst president in recent history. By God, is it really that hard to get a decent grade in school and earn a decent living?

Just how inferior do you think blacks are?
 
Ah, so you have an excuse for why you think blacks are inferior to everyone else. Barry seemed to overcome 400 years of slavery and 100 years of segregation to become the worst president in recent history. By God, is it really that hard to get a decent grade in school and earn a decent living?

Just how inferior do you think blacks are?

I dint say they were inferior. My entire point, which was clear, that was to argue is it is their historical situation combined with high poverty that is the answer for the disparity in wealth. Whites, as I noted, when in the same scenario have the same outcomes.

Of course, some amazingly get through. They are the exception.

I literally, word for word said, they are not inferior. If you choose to falsify what I said that is your business.

Furthermore, I was paraphrasing 1000 of studies on this issue. They weren't my words.
 
I dint say they were inferior. My entire point, which was clear, that was to argue is it is their historical situation combined with high poverty that is the answer for the disparity in wealth. Whites, as I noted, when in the same scenario have the same outcomes.

Of course, some amazingly get through. They are the exception.

I literally, word for word said, they are not inferior. If you choose to falsify what I said that is your business.

Furthermore, I was paraphrasing 1000 of studies on this issue. They weren't my words.

You said, word for word, that they aren't inferior, and then you went on to make excuses for why you think they are.
 
You said, word for word, that they aren't inferior, and then you went on to make excuses for why you think they are.
More distortions. Is that all you have?

I word for word referred to universal research indicating that blacks make lower wealth on average then white because of the aforementioned reasoning.

Your tactics are evasive to the central point, outright lies, and indicative of you inability to discuss a topic.
 
It's interesting, from my perspective, to see what white posters think about this topic. I've enjoyed reading the comments here.

For what it's worth, here's Mr. Williams take. The last sentence speaks volumes.

There are some areas of black life in which excellence can be found without the slightest hint of racial preferences. Young blacks dominate basketball, football and some track-and-field events despite the fact that there has been a history of gross racial discrimination in those activities. Blacks are also prominent in several areas of the entertainment industry. Those observations mean that racial discrimination alone is not an insurmountable barrier to success. By the way, I can't think of any two fields with more ruthless competition.


You say, "OK, Williams, everyone knows about the success of blacks in sports and entertainment, but what about the intellectual arena?" A few inner-city junior high and high schools have produced black champion chess players, schools such as Philadelphia's Roberts Vaux High School and New York's Edward R. Murrow High School. Last year, two black teens -- from Intermediate School 318 Eugenio Maria de Hostos in Brooklyn, New York -- won the national high-school chess championship. All of this is in addition to quite a few black international masters and grandmasters in chess. Moreover, there's a long list of former and current black inventors and scientists. So there's no question that black people have the capacity to compete intellectually.


Civil rights organizations and their progressive allies, who all but suggest that blacks cannot achieve unless they are given special privileges, grossly insult and demean black people. But worse than that, when civil rights organizations and their progressive allies pursue special privileges for blacks in college admissions and when they attack academic performance standards as racially discriminatory, they are aiding and abetting an education establishment that delivers fraudulent education. They let educators off the hook, thereby enabling them to continue to produce educational fraud.


You say, "What do you mean by educational fraud, Williams?" There are many inputs to education that are beyond the control of educators, such as poor home environment, derelict parental oversight and students with minds alien and hostile to the education process. But there's one thing entirely within the control of the education establishment. That is the conferral of a high-school diploma. When a school confers a diploma upon a student, it attests that the student has mastered the 12th-grade levels of reading, writing and arithmetic. If, in fact, the student cannot perform at the seventh- or eighth-grade levels, the school has committed gross fraud. Even worse is the fact that black people, including those holding fraudulent diplomas, are completely unaware. It has absolutely nothing to do with racial discrimination. In fact, black education is the worst in cities where blacks have been the mayor, chief of police and superintendent of schools and where most of the teachers and principals are black.

Racial preferences in college admissions give elementary schools, middle schools and high schools a free hand to continue their destructive educational policy. If colleges did not have special admissions practices for black students, there would be far fewer blacks in colleges, and the fraud would be more apparent to parents. They might begin to ask why so many blacks with high-school diplomas could not get into college.

If the civil rights establishment and the progressives have their way, blacks will have to rely on special privileges in perpetuity.
 
More distortions. Is that all you have?

I word for word referred to universal research indicating that blacks make lower wealth on average then white because of the aforementioned reasoning.

Your tactics are evasive to the central point, outright lies, and indicative of you inability to discuss a topic.

What lie, exactly?

My inability to discuss the topic? My answer to the TP was succinct and uambiguous. You, on the other hand, are claiming that blacks aren't capable, when every other race is and has. You want to blame it on 400 years of slavery and 100 years of segregation, in other words, you want to blame their inability on us, despite the fact that we have blacks on every level of the social ladder.

You want to make excuses for their inability to do what everyone else, including many in their own race, have done, on us? Really?
 
Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark

;)

What lie, exactly?

My inability to discuss the topic? My answer to the TP was succinct and uambiguous. You, on the other hand, are claiming that blacks aren't capable, when every other race is and has. You want to blame it on 400 years of slavery and 100 years of segregation, in other words, you want to blame their inability on us, despite the fact that we have blacks on every level of the social ladder.

You want to make excuses for their inability to do what everyone else, including many in their own race, have done, on us? Really?
 
Walter Williams posed a legitimate query in one of his recent columns. If anyone would care to discuss this (minus the flame-throwers), I think this is a fair topic for intelligent discussion:


Earlier this month, the 50th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act was celebrated. During the act's legislative debate, then-Sen. Hubert Humphrey, responding to predictions, promised, "I'll eat my hat if this leads to racial quotas." I don't know whether Humphrey got around to keeping his promise, but here's my question: Is it within the capacity of black Americans to make it in this society without the special favors variously called racial preferences, quotas, affirmative action and race-sensitive policies? What might a "yes" answer to that question assume and imply about blacks? Likewise, what would a "no" answer assume and imply?

http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2014/07/23/do-blacks-need-favors-n1864237


Thoughts?
A better question is do you think right wing outlets hire Black columnist to write articles like these because they would sound kinda racist coming from a non Black columnist. And isn't that a form of affirmative action in an of itself ?
 
Yes, of coarse blacks can make it in society without all the special treatment. To do that they need to make changes to their culture and that means, stay in school, quite playing the victim and rejuvenate the families, not the baby daddy society of today. If Blacks would do these simple things I am convinced things would greatly change for them and true equality would evolve. A very smart man once said, " Judge me by the content of my character, not the color of my skin". Truly a great idea, too bad no one listened.
 
A better question is do you think right wing outlets hire Black columnist to write articles like these because they would sound kinda racist coming from a non Black columnist. And isn't that a form of affirmative action in an of itself ?


No, that is not a "better question".

The BEST question would be;
Why do you think right wing outlets have to hire black columnist to write articles like these least they be deemed to be "racist", by dems/l ibs coming from a non black columnist.

But I do suppose that having a black columnist labeled an "Uncle Tom" for daring to question the way the left demands we all treat people differently based upon nothing more than their race today in order to make amends for................well, hell, the way we treated people differently based upon nothing more than their race in the past COULD be less of a shot to absorb from liberals than having a non-black columnist labeled a "racist" for doing exactly the same thing a black columnist can do......

It all makes perfect sense when looked at in that "certain" way, huh?
 
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