Left Behind

[Arkady]

I haven't read the mildly popular "Left Behind" books, or seen the box office flops by that name (either the version with former child star Kirk Cameron or the reboot starring Nicolas "Whatever Gets Me a Paycheck" Cage). But, I think I know the basic plot (amusingly spoofed in a couple recent movies "Rapturepalooza" and "This is the End"): the end-times have arrived and -- consistent with a textually specious reading of the Book of Revelation -- the good Christians have been taken up to Heaven, leaving the rest of us to suffer through a period of chaos and the ascendency of the antichrist. It occurs to me that the world would probably be better if the most devout believers were, in fact, "raptured" to some other existence.

Picture a world in which all the most devout people suddenly vanished -- not just the Christians, mind you, but anyone who has enough faith in a supernatural dogma for it to govern his life in a major way. Picture waking up tomorrow morning and ISIS and al Qaeda have ceased to exist. The vast majority of votes against gay marriage and reproductive choice: gone. No more female genital mutilation. No more stoning people to death for having the wrong kind of consensual sex. A quarter of the GOP's leadership gone, and the other three-quarters revealed to be poseurs. No more attempts to have creation taught as science. No more Catholic hierarchy interfering with efforts to encourage family planning in poor countries. No more Israelis convinced "Greater Israel" was given to the Jews by divine mandate, and no more Palestinians willing to kill and die in the name of Allah.

It wouldn't be utopia, to be sure. There are plenty of jackass non-believers out there. And losing some true believers would have negative consequences as well -- missionaries, for example, often do some real good in poor parts of the world in the process of trying to spread their faith. But I suspect that if if the 10% of mankind that most fervently believes in the supernatural were to vanish, once the shock wore off, the rest of us would find we were a lot happier, more peaceful, and more productive.

 

[marvin martian]

I think you should start a series of threads in the same "I review movies I've never seen and books I've never read" vein.*

*Note: I've neither read nor seen any of the Left Behind material. Then again, I didn't post my review of it either.

 

[marvin martian]

I think you should start a series of threads in the same "I review movies I've never seen and books I've never read" vein.*

*Note: I've neither read nor seen any of the Left Behind material. Then again, I didn't post my review of it either.

Building on that, we could have you do a whole series of reviews:

- Restaurants in which you've never dined.
- Cars you've never driven.
- Hotels in which you've never stayed.

Possibilities are endless...

We could call it The Clueless Dilettante or Plagiarist's Corner...

 

[ya-ta-hey]

I haven't read the mildly popular "Left Behind" books, or seen the box office flops by that name (either the version with former child star Kirk Cameron or the reboot starring Nicolas "Whatever Gets Me a Paycheck" Cage). But, I think I know the basic plot (amusingly spoofed in a couple recent movies "Rapturepalooza" and "This is the End"): the end-times have arrived and -- consistent with a textually specious reading of the Book of Revelation -- the good Christians have been taken up to Heaven, leaving the rest of us to suffer through a period of chaos and the ascendency of the antichrist. It occurs to me that the world would probably be better if the most devout believers were, in fact, "raptured" to some other existence.

Picture a world in which all the most devout people suddenly vanished -- not just the Christians, mind you, but anyone who has enough faith in a supernatural dogma for it to govern his life in a major way. Picture waking up tomorrow morning and ISIS and al Qaeda have ceased to exist. The vast majority of votes against gay marriage and reproductive choice: gone. No more female genital mutilation. No more stoning people to death for having the wrong kind of consensual sex. A quarter of the GOP's leadership gone, and the other three-quarters revealed to be poseurs. No more attempts to have creation taught as science. No more Catholic hierarchy interfering with efforts to encourage family planning in poor countries. No more Israelis convinced "Greater Israel" was given to the Jews by divine mandate, and no more Palestinians willing to kill and die in the name of Allah.

It wouldn't be utopia, to be sure. There are plenty of jackass non-believers out there. And losing some true believers would have negative consequences as well -- missionaries, for example, often do some real good in poor parts of the world in the process of trying to spread their faith. But I suspect that if if the 10% of mankind that most fervently believes in the supernatural were to vanish, once the shock wore off, the rest of us would find we were a lot happier, more peaceful, and more productive.

Mr. Arkady,

yeah, but then there's that damn little thing about the four horsemen of the apocoplyse mowing down those that remain.

LOL, do you ever bother to do your homework before you shoot off your mouth, or in this case, your typey little fingers?

 

[JV-12]

I haven't read the mildly popular "Left Behind" books, or seen the box office flops by that name (either the version with former child star Kirk Cameron or the reboot starring Nicolas "Whatever Gets Me a Paycheck" Cage). But, I think I know the basic plot (amusingly spoofed in a couple recent movies "Rapturepalooza" and "This is the End"): the end-times have arrived and -- consistent with a textually specious reading of the Book of Revelation -- the good Christians have been taken up to Heaven, leaving the rest of us to suffer through a period of chaos and the ascendency of the antichrist. It occurs to me that the world would probably be better if the most devout believers were, in fact, "raptured" to some other existence.

Picture a world in which all the most devout people suddenly vanished -- not just the Christians, mind you, but anyone who has enough faith in a supernatural dogma for it to govern his life in a major way. Picture waking up tomorrow morning and ISIS and al Qaeda have ceased to exist. The vast majority of votes against gay marriage and reproductive choice: gone. No more female genital mutilation. No more stoning people to death for having the wrong kind of consensual sex. A quarter of the GOP's leadership gone, and the other three-quarters revealed to be poseurs. No more attempts to have creation taught as science. No more Catholic hierarchy interfering with efforts to encourage family planning in poor countries. No more Israelis convinced "Greater Israel" was given to the Jews by divine mandate, and no more Palestinians willing to kill and die in the name of Allah.

It wouldn't be utopia, to be sure. There are plenty of jackass non-believers out there. And losing some true believers would have negative consequences as well -- missionaries, for example, often do some real good in poor parts of the world in the process of trying to spread their faith. But I suspect that if if the 10% of mankind that most fervently believes in the supernatural were to vanish, once the shock wore off, the rest of us would find we were a lot happier, more peaceful, and more productive.

Nice position paper. Also, thanks for not distinguishing Christianity from ISIS, we are one in the same to you. Religion is religion and we all do the same things and align ourselves with all the zealots and crazies. Makes it easier for you to look smart.

Single out Israel of course, that’s a given. But the other evils worth noting --- having babies in Africa with Catholic support --- heck, that is almost as evil as owning a fur coat.

But we get your drift. You brought in all the other evils of other religions (stoning girls to death for sex, and genital mutilation) with Christianity and called it all just “religious evil” so you can make Christianity look evil. Period. That is the foe you fear. That is the one you spend half your time plotting against. Trying to destroy God… what a mission you have chosen.

FYI, no Catholics and most protestants do not buy into the rapture theory. Ok? Does it even matter to you? If you want to pin lies upon Catholics, use our own “lies” not someone else’s. Enjoy.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

“When man stops believing in God he then does not believe in nothing… he will believe in anything.” (G.K. Chesterton)

 

[Arkady]

I think you should start a series of threads in the same "I review movies I've never seen and books I've never read" vein.*

*Note: I've neither read nor seen any of the Left Behind material. Then again, I didn't post my review of it either.

I didn't post a review, either. That is just your extremely weak reading comprehension. I made no comment at all about the quality of the books or the movies. I simply mentioned things I could discern without seeing them -- their sales, a very general account of their premise, and who stars in them. Try harder next time.

 

[Arkady]

Building on that, we could have you do a whole series of reviews:

- Restaurants in which you've never dined.
- Cars you've never driven.
- Hotels in which you've never stayed.

Possibilities are endless...

We could call it The Clueless Dilettante or Plagiarist's Corner...

Better yet, we could have a whole series of posts where I provide increasingly complicated text for you to practice, until you're up to a reading level where you don't keep embarrassing yourself this way. We could call it Helping Marvin Get the Education He Missed as a Child.

 

[Arkady]

Mr. Arkady,

yeah, but then there's that damn little thing about the four horsemen of the apocoplyse mowing down those that remain.

LOL, do you ever bother to do your homework before you shoot off your mouth, or in this case, your typey little fingers?

Try rereading what I wrote. If you're still having trouble spotting your error, let me know and I can explain it to you.

 

[Arkady]

Nice position paper. Also, thanks for not distinguishing Christianity from ISIS, we are one in the same to you.

I do distinguish Christianity from ISIS. One is a religion, like Islam. The other is a group of violent religious thugs, like the KKK. My thought experiment is about what would happen if all the most devout people vanished. That doesn't mean all Christians or all Muslims. It means all the most extreme religious people, regardless of religion. As I said, in some cases that would be bad. There are some very devout people who do good things in the world. But it's my belief that, on balance, it would be a very positive thing if all the most devout disappeared.

Single out Israel of course, that’s a given.

It would probably be helpful if you learned the definition of "single." When a person gives a whole list of particulars, (including, not just Israel, but also their opposite numbers on the Palestinian side) those multiple examples are the exact opposite of singling something out. I can't be said to have singled out anyone, but if a person were to try to make that claim, he'd do a better job arguing I singled out Islam, since it got first and most frequent mention in my list. Israel, by comparison, got a single passing mention near the end of the paragraph.

so you can make Christianity look evil. Period. That is the foe you fear

You are the one talking about Christianity. I mentioned both of the world's two biggest religions, plus Judaism, and tacitly implicated all religions. You just didn't like seeing your particular religion treated in an even-handed manner with those you dislike. But, from my point of view, they're nothing special, either good or bad.

FYI, no Catholics and most protestants do not buy into the rapture theory.

I'm aware that the "rapture" isn't supported by Catholic theology, and nothing I said implied it was. In fact, I specifically said it was based on a specious reading of the text. Is the word "specious" what threw you?

If you want to pin lies upon Catholics, use our own “lies” not someone else’s.

What would help is if you made more effort to tailor your comments to the post you're replying to, rather than fighting with the demons in your own head. Your desire to play martyr may make it convenient for you to claim I was trying to pin the rapture theology on Catholics, but I quite clearly did no such thing.

 

[Queen Titania]

Nice position paper. Also, thanks for not distinguishing Christianity from ISIS, we are one in the same to you. Religion is religion and we all do the same things and align ourselves with all the zealots and crazies. Makes it easier for you to look smart.

Single out Israel of course, that’s a given. But the other evils worth noting --- having babies in Africa with Catholic support --- heck, that is almost as evil as owning a fur coat.

But we get your drift. You brought in all the other evils of other religions (stoning girls to death for sex, and genital mutilation) with Christianity and called it all just “religious evil” so you can make Christianity look evil. Period. That is the foe you fear. That is the one you spend half your time plotting against. Trying to destroy God… what a mission you have chosen.

FYI, no Catholics and most protestants do not buy into the rapture theory. Ok? Does it even matter to you? If you want to pin lies upon Catholics, use our own “lies” not someone else’s. Enjoy.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

“When man stops believing in God he then does not believe in nothing… he will believe in anything.” (G.K. Chesterton)

ISIS =Al Qaeda are Wahhabis - formed in 1700 so they say - the Saud and Wahhabis were joined in marriage in 1744 - They are the equiverlant of the worst of the Christian Puritan movements - Like your Pilgrim Fathers -

And it is rather more Talmudic than Islamic - the killing of the Christians in particular -

 

[JV-12]

I do distinguish Christianity from ISIS. One is a religion, like Islam. The other is a group of violent religious thugs, like the KKK. My thought experiment is about what would happen if all the most devout people vanished. That doesn't mean all Christians or all Muslims. It means all the most extreme religious people, regardless of religion. As I said, in some cases that would be bad. There are some very devout people who do good things in the world. But it's my belief that, on balance, it would be a very positive thing if all the most devout disappeared.



It would probably be helpful if you learned the definition of "single." When a person gives a whole list of particulars, (including, not just Israel, but also their opposite numbers on the Palestinian side) those multiple examples are the exact opposite of singling something out. I can't be said to have singled out anyone, but if a person were to try to make that claim, he'd do a better job arguing I singled out Islam, since it got first and most frequent mention in my list. Israel, by comparison, got a single passing mention near the end of the paragraph.



You are the one talking about Christianity. I mentioned both of the world's two biggest religions, plus Judaism, and tacitly implicated all religions. You just didn't like seeing your particular religion treated in an even-handed manner with those you dislike. But, from my point of view, they're nothing special, either good or bad.



I'm aware that the "rapture" isn't supported by Catholic theology, and nothing I said implied it was. In fact, I specifically said it was based on a specious reading of the text. Is the word "specious" what threw you?



What would help is if you made more effort to tailor your comments to the post you're replying to, rather than fighting with the demons in your own head. Your desire to play martyr may make it convenient for you to claim I was trying to pin the rapture theology on Catholics, but I quite clearly did no such thing.

B.S. Your ulterior motives for this post are not that veiled. Just re-reading the one paragraph where you tell those “left behind” all of the evil that will go with those raptured, you single out an interesting list of what one might assume to be some of the greater evils these folks are responsible for. (And, yes, you can use the words “singled out” because one can single out a plural number of items.)

First you list ISIS and al Qaeda gone. Then the very next evil to go is “The vast majority of votes against gay marriage and reproductive choice: gone.” As though there is any semblance or comparison of true evil between ISIS and Christians wanting babies not to be aborted.

Next items singled out are “No more female genital mutilation. No more stoning people to death for having the wrong kind of consensual sex. A quarter of the GOP's leadership gone, and the other three-quarters revealed to be poseurs. No more attempts to have creation taught as science.” Once again, the first two are diabolic and evil, but you cannot stop yourself from throwing in a political matter as though it were evil personified, and even worse, the thought some believe or teach creation!! What a horror the world has to fear! Worse than being stoned to death.

Again -- “No more Catholic hierarchy interfering with efforts to encourage family planning in poor countries.” Another of the greatest evils that religions do to other people. Of course you could not care less if a mother wants another baby or not, you will put them on a population control program for your own selfish “needs.”

“No more Israelis convinced "Greater Israel" was given to the Jews by divine mandate, and no more Palestinians willing to kill and die in the name of Allah.” Yeah, I get it. You have no preferences in this conflict by including Palestinian terrorists. Right. It was your opportunity to make Israel look just as evil as those who seek to murder them, and you use the flimsiest of lame motives. Israel seeks peace, always has, not imperialism.

Your selections and juxtapositions speak volumes… you want to attack Christianity and nothing more. Sorry, you just don’t get it.

 

[Arkady]

(And, yes, you can use the words “singled out” because one can single out a plural number of items.)

If "singled out" means listing any number of items, of what use is the phrase? Isn't the whole purpose of the phrase to suggest some special status is being given to some SINGLE item?

First you list ISIS and al Qaeda gone. Then the very next evil to go is “The vast majority of votes against gay marriage and reproductive choice: gone.” As though there is any semblance or comparison of true evil between ISIS and Christians wanting babies not to be aborted.

Are you under the impression that only Christians are anti-gay marriage and against reproductive choice? If so, try thinking. If not, then perhaps you see the problem with your assumption that the item was about Christianity.

Once again, the first two are diabolic and evil, but you cannot stop yourself from throwing in a political matter as though it were evil personified, and even worse, the thought some believe or teach creation!!

There are, of course, different degrees of evil. There are small, regional evils, like ISIS, which cause terrible local suffering but are relatively meaningless in the broader world and over the longer term. Then there are great evils, like the GOP, which cause suffering on a global scale --their evil multiplied by the power of a great nation-- and which will have horrible lasting consequences for generations to come. I don't mean to imply that the two are equivalent when I suggest we'd be better off without them both.

No more Catholic hierarchy interfering with efforts to encourage family planning in poor countries.”

Yes, indeed, it is. Resistance to contraception in the third world has been responsible for vastly more death and misery than ISIS could hope to accomplish. Again, I don't want to create the false impression that ISIS is as harmful as the Catholic Church --certainly they're not even close. I'm just saying the world would be better without both of them.

It was your opportunity to make Israel look just as evil as those who seek to murder them, and you use the flimsiest of lame motives.

I have an equal problem with Israelis murdering Palestinians as I have with Palestinians murdering Israelis. Don't you?

Israel seeks peace, always has, not imperialism.

They illegally occupy Palestinian land and seek to make it a permanent part of their nation. Isn't that the very definition of imperialism?

 

[Caroljo]

Well Ark...IF it really happens and all us evil Christians will be gone, I hope you well with all the evil and immoral people that are left here. But you'll be ok, the anti-christ will take care of you. For awhile.....

 

[Queen Titania]

Well Ark...IF it really happens and all us evil Christians will be gone, I hope you well with all the evil and immoral people that are left here. But you'll be ok, the anti-christ will take care of you. For awhile.....

For even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds. II Corinthians 11:14-15

 

[gigi]

Arkady,
Did someone with a Coexist bumper sticker cut you off on the highway this morning? You sound so angry.
Do you mind if I bookmark this thread for the next time your One Believer Fan Club shows up to defend your objectivity and tolerance?

 

[Queen Titania]

Did someone with a Coexist bumper sticker cut you off on the highway this morning? You sound so angry.
Do you mind if I bookmark this thread for the next time your One Believer Fan Club shows up to defend your objectivity and tolerance?

Who are you talking too?

 

[JV-12]

For even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds. II Corinthians 11:14-15

I am just curious. Why do you quote the Bible to defend your positions? Do you believe what it says? Are you a believer in any deity?

 

[gigi]

Who are you talking too?

Arkady. Fixed it.

 

[Queen Titania]

I am just curious. Why do you quote the Bible to defend your positions? Do you believe what it says? Are you a believer in any deity?

I have no quarrel with the words of the bible - there are many and beautiful truths in it - I am Gnostic and no I don't believe in deities in the literal sense - other than as philosophical tools -

I do btw believe in the supernatural but not that it can or does affect us as 'it' will - only if we harness its forces -

Oh and what position? I haven't stated one - not yet anyway

 

[Queen Titania]

Arkady. Fixed it.

Lol - You posted it straight after me and though I could understand you saying what you did to me sometimes, some days - I was a bit flummoxed by it today ;-)