Some post election thoughts

[Jen]

Regardless of who we elected, Romney or Obama, our nation is moving toward Socialism. We see the models of the Socialistic European nations and some are bad (and having lots of financial trouble) and others are not so bad, or at least they look okay on the surface that we see.

There was no way to avoid that trend. None. Both Democrats and Republicans are taking us in that direction and there is little chance that anyone from any other party would have been elected.

So now what we need to do is just ride the wave, choose our battles, try to make sure that on our way to the great socialistic pie in the sky we keep at least the rights that are dear to us -- and for those of you who love your extra large Diet Coke, you may have to learn to like water. And for those of you who pray, please do so silently and keep your eyes open so nobody has to see you praying and takes offense.

It's all good.

My hope is that Obamacare really will keep us all medicated and happy..... My hope is that everyone in this country comes to the top of our out of poverty and no one is hungry (or yearning for that Diet Coke)..... and that everyone gets a good education. Most of all, I hope our government works and that those we elected actually get in there and do the job we elected them to do without digging in their heels or stonewalling each other but by actually working it out.

I'm on board and hopeful.

And if I lose anything that's too dear with me to part with, maybe I'll figure out a way to move back to Colorado and just eat a lot of (sugar free/ gluten free) special brownies.

That oughta do it.

 

[888888]

Regardless of who we elected, Romney or Obama, our nation is moving toward Socialism. We see the models of the Socialistic European nations and some are bad (and having lots of financial trouble) and others are not so bad, or at least they look okay on the surface that we see.

There was no way to avoid that trend. None. Both Democrats and Republicans are taking us in that direction and there is little chance that anyone from any other party would have been elected.

So now what we need to do is just ride the wave, choose our battles, try to make sure that on our way to the great socialistic pie in the sky we keep at least the rights that are dear to us -- and for those of you who love your extra large Diet Coke, you may have to learn to like water. And for those of you who pray, please do so silently and keep your eyes open so nobody has to see you praying and takes offense.

It's all good.

My hope is that Obamacare really will keep us all medicated and happy..... My hope is that everyone in this country comes to the top of our out of poverty and no one is hungry (or yearning for that Diet Coke)..... and that everyone gets a good education. Most of all, I hope our government works and that those we elected actually get in there and do the job we elected them to do without digging in their heels or stonewalling each other but by actually working it out.

I'm on board and hopeful.

And if I lose anything that's too dear with me to part with, maybe I'll figure out a way to move back to Colorado and just eat a lot of (sugar free/ gluten free) special brownies.

That oughta do it.

Jen, can you tell me a socialist country where the top 10% of the population owns 84% of everything? Can you tell me of a socialist country that 50% of the income of that nation goes to 1% of the population?

Can you show me any country where the bottom 50% of the population is living in poverty and the top 1% is living high on the hog, making the bottom 50% to do all the work? Show me a socialist country that the bottom 50% are forced to pay for the running of local govt while the top 1% in wealth pay little of it.

 

[IndependentinWis]

I don't think we are really any more socialistic than we were in the 1980's or 1990's. The problem is that all of the programs set up years ago are being used a lot more and costing a lot more with businesses sending our good paying jobs elsewhere and the deep recession that hit a year before Obama took office. I am not going to try and blame the recession on anyone, just stating a fact. The reason for the programs is two fold. First or course as a safety net so people don't starve in what we like to call the richest nation in the world. The second though may even be more important. It is to help the economy from really going into a depression. Our economy is consumer based and when spending drops, so does the economy. These prgrams help reduce the fall and hurry the recovery. The problem with most Repubs is that they still think of our economy as investment based. If we just provde enough incentive to get people to invest the economy will grow. As we have seen in the past 30 years it doesn't work. You can invest and build what you like, but if people don't have the money to buy the economy goes south. That is why it is more oimportant to have tax cuts for those who will spend if not all, most fo the money they save in taxes. You can keep giving money to the wealthy through tax cuts until the cows come home and it has't and won't do our economy any good.

 

[888888]

Why do those who make all the money think they should not be the ones who pay for the running of the system. Why shouldn't the money we need as a country come out of the profits of businesses of the country? Do you believe that what a company needs to operate in this country should be paid for by the people who are employed by them? The difference is you want the workers to pay to be workers, we want the employers to pay to use the workers.

Just two ways to look at things Jen.

 

[888888]

I don't think we are really any more socialistic than we were in the 1980's or 1990's. The problem is that all of the programs set up years ago are being used a lot more and costing a lot more with businesses sending our good paying jobs elsewhere and the deep recession that hit a year before Obama took office. I am not going to try and blame the recession on anyone, just stating a fact. The reason for the programs is two fold. First or course as a safety net so people don't starve in what we like to call the richest nation in the world. The second though may even be more important. It is to help the economy from really going into a depression. Our economy is consumer based and when spending drops, so does the economy. These prgrams help reduce the fall and hurry the recovery. The problem with most Repubs is that they still think of our economy as investment based. If we just provde enough incentive to get people to invest the economy will grow. As we have seen in the past 30 years it doesn't work. You can invest and build what you like, but if people don't have the money to buy the economy goes south. That is why it is more oimportant to have tax cuts for those who will spend if not all, most fo the money they save in taxes. You can keep giving money to the wealthy through tax cuts until the cows come home and it has't and won't do our economy any good.

Republicans have no answer to what will happen to all the people that our system of govt can't provide for by having work that could let them support their families. They think that if there is not any help provided to them they will just figure something else out and do it, in their warped mines. They don't care if someone is suffering I believe, as long as it isn't them. Most reasonable people believe its an outcome, but most people on the right believe it's a fault, and since it's a fault, why should I care!

 

[degsme]

Sorry, got confused as to who was posting what

 

[Saladin2]

I remember reading an Op-Ed about America moving toward socialism....How American vales were in "great" jeopardy..It was written after the 1946 Election of President Truman

 

[Mytzlplk]

what nonsense.

I suppose that's why there are no examples of how the US is moving towards taking over the means of production and distribution in evidence, or plans to dismantle capitalism as we know it.

My post election thought is that rightwingnuts generally have surprisingly gotten even more stupid than they were before they were saddled with a black pres for "four more years".

 

[Saladin2]

To most Republicans spending 3% of the Federal Budget on Welfare and Unemployment benefits is Socialism....Farm Subsidy's and Veterans Benefits (Over 10% of the federal budget)...is not...Go figure

 

[degsme]

Regardless of who we elected, Romney or Obama, our nation is moving toward Socialism. We see the models of the Socialistic European nations and some are bad (and having lots of financial trouble) and others are not so bad, or at least they look okay on the surface that we see.

Setting aside your incorrect use of the term "socialistic"

You may be only looking at the surface but many of us have been doing business there for decades, have relatives who live there and also can read their local news in the local languages.

You really need to get out more.


Secondly they are not in the least 'socialistic'. They do not advocate in any way for "government ownership of the means of production". Even places like Greece and Italy, where there is a LOT of government participation in the economy,the MAJORITY of the economy is CAPITALISM.

That's just simple economic fact.

It is ALSO TRUE that many of those nations outperformed the USA's growth from 2001-2007

As for the rest of your nonsense about "medicated and happy"... sorry that's just nonsense. No one here. not anyone - believes that you are "hopeful". In your heart of hearts, you want Obama to fail so that you can be vindicated in your beliefs.


Now as to "rights that are dear to you"... you do realize that the NYC ban on 2 Liter Sodas is a local ordinance Exactly the same sort of nonsensical laws like Texas Banning criticism of the meat-packing industry. Don't blame local idiocy as though its a national issue. The GOP is AT LEAST AS idiotic at the local level.

Remember its the GOP that is advocating forced mechanical rape of rape victims.

 

[Jen]

No. I cannot.

Jen, can you tell me a socialist country where the top 10% of the population owns 84% of everything? Can you tell me of a socialist country that 50% of the income of that nation goes to 1% of the population?

Can you show me any country where the bottom 50% of the population is living in poverty and the top 1% is living high on the hog, making the bottom 50% to do all the work? Show me a socialist country that the bottom 50% are forced to pay for the running of local govt while the top 1% in wealth pay little of it.

 

[Jen]

Obviously we have been moving that way for a long time and we still have a long ways to go. It's probably just the natural progression of things.

I remember reading an Op-Ed about America moving toward socialism....How American vales were in "great" jeopardy..It was written after the 1946 Election of President Truman

 

[gabriel]

Regardless of who we elected, Romney or Obama, our nation is moving toward Socialism. We see the models of the Socialistic European nations and some are bad (and having lots of financial trouble) and others are not so bad, or at least they look okay on the surface that we see.

There was no way to avoid that trend. None. Both Democrats and Republicans are taking us in that direction and there is little chance that anyone from any other party would have been elected.

So now what we need to do is just ride the wave, choose our battles, try to make sure that on our way to the great socialistic pie in the sky we keep at least the rights that are dear to us -- and for those of you who love your extra large Diet Coke, you may have to learn to like water. And for those of you who pray, please do so silently and keep your eyes open so nobody has to see you praying and takes offense.

It's all good.

My hope is that Obamacare really will keep us all medicated and happy..... My hope is that everyone in this country comes to the top of our out of poverty and no one is hungry (or yearning for that Diet Coke)..... and that everyone gets a good education. Most of all, I hope our government works and that those we elected actually get in there and do the job we elected them to do without digging in their heels or stonewalling each other but by actually working it out.

I'm on board and hopeful.

And if I lose anything that's too dear with me to part with, maybe I'll figure out a way to move back to Colorado and just eat a lot of (sugar free/ gluten free) special brownies.

That oughta do it.

anything left of full scale laissez-faire capitalism is "toward" socialism. america has been "toward" socialism for well over 100 years. what you should have said was america is moving FURTHER toward socialism which simply means further left. and its about bloody time.

 

[Zoar]

Since the 2012 election the relentless demonizing of President Obama has not ceased by the Repugnicans. The president is damned if he does and damned if he does not. Thus the Repugnicans increasingly look even more : absurd and have lost all credibility. They just continue to double down with the brash and unreasonable narrative which attacks Obama no matter what he does and they continue to boldly alienate EVERYONE except their pasty white fatso loudmouthed type 2 diabetes base.

 

[KnotaFrayed]

Regardless of who we elected, Romney or Obama, our nation is moving toward Socialism. We see the models of the Socialistic European nations and some are bad (and having lots of financial trouble) and others are not so bad, or at least they look okay on the surface that we see.

There was no way to avoid that trend. None. Both Democrats and Republicans are taking us in that direction and there is little chance that anyone from any other party would have been elected.

So now what we need to do is just ride the wave, choose our battles, try to make sure that on our way to the great socialistic pie in the sky we keep at least the rights that are dear to us -- and for those of you who love your extra large Diet Coke, you may have to learn to like water. And for those of you who pray, please do so silently and keep your eyes open so nobody has to see you praying and takes offense.

It's all good.

My hope is that Obamacare really will keep us all medicated and happy..... My hope is that everyone in this country comes to the top of our out of poverty and no one is hungry (or yearning for that Diet Coke)..... and that everyone gets a good education. Most of all, I hope our government works and that those we elected actually get in there and do the job we elected them to do without digging in their heels or stonewalling each other but by actually working it out.

I'm on board and hopeful.

And if I lose anything that's too dear with me to part with, maybe I'll figure out a way to move back to Colorado and just eat a lot of (sugar free/ gluten free) special brownies.

That oughta do it.

Well Jen, here is an explanation of why this nation moved toward "socialism" (as opposed to anti-socialism) since we fought a revolutionary war to toss off monarchial and aristocratic rule. It is why we then went on to fight a civil war over the enslavement of human beings by other human beings. If you don't like moving closer to "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,..." then I suppose you can look for something in the world closer to feudalism or perhaps an aristocracy or monarchy. Perhaps a theocracy would be more to your liking, there are some in the middle east who like women to be subservient and submissive. You could be a stay-at-home mom and wear a niqāb when you go out in public.

You might want to also study the meaning of the word "socialism" in all of its various degrees and meanings and compare it to the United States. In addition, there is a sense that a fair number of Americans believe in and have believed in since their ancestors fought a revolution for the purposes of improving social justice and what social responsibility is all about. Also look up the word "virtue" and see what it means and what are considered human virtues, what are considered the opposite.

Other thoughts you might use your mind to think about and consider what would happen if the number of people living in your home doubled, tripled, quadrupled or increased by 100. Would you expect to see your "infrastructure" stressed? Would you expect the atmosphere in your home? Would you expect to have to lay down some new rules?

This is what Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration of Independence said regarding the influence of wealth into politics as a result of its influence in society and how to try to diminish that influence by additional chambers in a legislature.


"I cannot help commending the zeal that appears in my countrymen against the power of a King or a House of Lords. I concur with them in all their prejudices against hereditary titles, honour and power. History is little else than a recital of the follies and vices of kings and noblemen, and it is because I dread so much from them, that I wish to exclude them for ever from Pennsylvania, for notwithstanding our government has been called a simple democracy, I maintain, that a foundation is laid in it for the most complete aristocracy that ever existed in the world."

"In order to prove this assertion, I shall premise two propositions, which have never been controverted: First, where there is wealth, there will be power; and, secondly, the rich have always been an over-match for the poor in all contests for power."

"These truths being admitted, I desire to know what can prevent our single representation being filled, in the course of a few years, with a majority of rich men? Say not, the people will not choose such men to represent them. The influence of wealth at elections is irresistible. It has been seen and felt in Pennsylvania, and I am obliged in justice to my subject to say, that there are poor men among us as prepared to be influenced, as the rich are prepared to influence them. The fault must be laid in both cases upon human nature. The consequence of a majority of rich men getting into the legislature is plain. Their wealth will administer fuel to the love of arbitrary power that is common to all men. The present Assembly have furnished them with precedents for breaking the Constitution. Farewell now to annual elections! Public emergencies will sanctify the most daring measures. The clamours of their constituents will be silenced with offices, bribes or punishments. An aristocracy will be established, and Pennsylvania will be inhabited like most of the countries in Europe, with only two sorts of animals, tyrants and slaves."

-Benjamin Rush - 1777 – Bicameralism

 

[Jen]

Why would you come to this conclusion, Knot?

Perhaps a theocracy would be more to your liking,

What, exactly, have I said to make you think that?

 

[Union_Jack_1972]

Regardless of who we elected, Romney or Obama, our nation is moving toward Socialism. We see the models of the Socialistic European nations and some are bad (and having lots of financial trouble) and others are not so bad, or at least they look okay on the surface that we see.

There was no way to avoid that trend. None. Both Democrats and Republicans are taking us in that direction and there is little chance that anyone from any other party would have been elected.

So now what we need to do is just ride the wave, choose our battles, try to make sure that on our way to the great socialistic pie in the sky we keep at least the rights that are dear to us -- and for those of you who love your extra large Diet Coke, you may have to learn to like water. And for those of you who pray, please do so silently and keep your eyes open so nobody has to see you praying and takes offense.

It's all good.

My hope is that Obamacare really will keep us all medicated and happy..... My hope is that everyone in this country comes to the top of our out of poverty and no one is hungry (or yearning for that Diet Coke)..... and that everyone gets a good education. Most of all, I hope our government works and that those we elected actually get in there and do the job we elected them to do without digging in their heels or stonewalling each other but by actually working it out.

I'm on board and hopeful.

And if I lose anything that's too dear with me to part with, maybe I'll figure out a way to move back to Colorado and just eat a lot of (sugar free/ gluten free) special brownies.

That oughta do it.

Jen, pass the brownies please...

Look, yes it is true that true conservatism is dead. It died durin' the era of Ike. For those that believe Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II were true Conservatives, well they were not true Conservative. I know many lefties will disagree, but their knowledge is limited to what MSNBC, DailyKos, and most lefty blogs tell'em, but actually they were Social Conservatives, and the last three were big spendin' Conservatives that expanded government. So in the end Conservatism has been dead except Ron Paul, and he is gone soon.

So your thread gave me a chuckle because Socialism is here to stay. So plan on Big Brother to expand it power into our daily lives. The expansionof the internet, drones, and everyone havin' cellphones, well Big Brother has their eye on us even more...

Then add Homeland Security, the Patriot act, and expansion of Government that was done by both political parties, and you realize that we no longer live in a society where Conservatism can thrive.

So drink that super size Diet Coke because even a large glass of water will not be allowed because the fresh water fish might be disturbed, and damn it Jen we can't have that!!!

Now where's those brownies, and smile because you have 2014 and 2016, oh wait the outlook is not so bright either...

P.S.

Don't get me started on your prayin' over there either...

 

[KnotaFrayed]

Why would you come to this conclusion, Knot?


What, exactly, have I said to make you think that?

It is said based on your ongoing commentary here with regard to support for Mitt and Ann Romney, with regard to religion and your apparent feeling that women should place their rights in the hands of men and the state based on religion, more than they currently do.

Some seem to believe there is a hatred of Christian religion in this nation and I haven't seen you offer disagreement with that. My take is that it is not so much a dislike of the Christian religion, but a dislike of hypocrisy and the expressed dislike and intolerance of Christians shown toward some human beings and other religions for as much some Christians complain others do not like them.

The same with wealth in this nation. I know some very very wealthy people who are very socially minded and responsible and they are so wealthy that if the government took 90% of their net worth yearly they would still live in the lap of luxury. They have no problems with paying what little more is being asked of them to help improve the nation's economy and to keep those in need with what they need until the nation's economic health improved beyond where it has already. They know that when a disaster strikes, be it a natural disaster or an economic one, expenses rise, not fall and that means more debt, not less and it also means a need for more revenue, just as there is a call for more donations when a natural disaster hits.

When whole towns are flattened in tornado alley, you don't see people questioning the wisdom of rebuilding or FEMA help. When drought struck how many states this summer and "fiscally conservative" governors asked for federal aid, was there a lot of discussion about getting it to them?

The portion of America that voted Mr. Obama in for another 4 years are tired of all those bashing the federal government while waiting on it at the same time and doing nothing to improve things except complain about how the government isn't doing enough or how it's spending too much when it does do something.

Basically what people are tired of are people who apparently don't sit down long enough to think of anything, but life from their own selfish perspectives and can't see a much wider picture.

 

[Gramps]

I've been hearing this stuff and reading about it for decades but we're still just plugging along. I don't think anyone knows what the bottom or top line is as regards the economy. If everyone had to sell out and settle up tomorrow -- both commercial and private -- is couldn't be done. I probably could never have been done. We have more imaginary money floating around than we have the real McCoy.

Gramps

I remember reading an Op-Ed about America moving toward socialism....How American vales were in "great" jeopardy..It was written after the 1946 Election of President Truman

 

[Jen]

your apparent feeling that women should place their rights in the hands of men and the state based on religion, more than they currently do.

Where are you getting this crap, Knot? I never have said anything like this. Quit making things up.

Some seem to believe there is a hatred of Christian religion in this nation and I haven't seen you offer disagreement with that.

There are quite a few things I haven't offered disagreement of............do you think I believe all of those things too? Again, I"m scratching my head regarding the stuff you make up just because.

Why not stick to talking about your own beliefs because when you try to tell me what I think......... you never EVER get it even close to right. I wonder why you would want to tell me what I think anyway?