The Left vs. The Right: Intentions vs. Actions

[Mr. Friscus]

I enjoy clarity in politics. Defining our differences. And I think there is a huge difference in morality between the Left and Right in America.

I think any observer who came to America wouldn't have to observe long to see which "side" is plump with Self-Esteem. After all, The Left invented the "Self Esteem movement", which has sadly had devastating results to children and the public. I'm speaking of teaching kids (and anyone) to think highly of themselves without doing anything to merit thinking highly of themselves.

I've long stated that I don't see most Liberals as malicious, mean-spirited people, just simply guided more by inner feelings than by an absolute morality.

I've met many on the right like me. Certainly not all, as both sides have mean-spirited rhetoric, just not by the same ratio in any sense.

If you'd like my personal opinion (too bad, you're getting it anyways), I think overall the left happen to be naive of the history of the world, and the long-term results of liberalism. The horrendous dangers it holds in regards to devaluing human life and enslaving its populace into poverty and awful living conditions. However, being naive and ignorant isn't some ill-intentioned scheme. There are plenty of decent, good Liberals in America today. Leftists (The ill-intentioned, agitating, activist extremists) are sadly growing within the population of the overall left, with plenty of encouragement from the media and the current administration, but there's hope for the future that it won't snowball too far out of control.

Now for my main point: From what I've observed, I've rarely met a Democrat or Liberal who can admit there are Conservatives who are as kind and well-intentioned as they are. To them, there simply MUST be some malice or ill-intention in the right. I think if the left didn't fundamentally believe in this maliciousness within the right, they wouldn't stay liberal.

While the left must believe they MEAN better than the right, the right moreso believes it DOES better than the left.

The Right measures morality by what happens, not what is intended. Huge distinction. Look all around you as far as our media and our politicians. The accusations from the left are entirely based in some phantom evil plot: "You hate blacks, you hate gays, you hate Islam, etc." And if data (measures of actions) shows that this claim holds no bearings in real life? Well, that doesn't appear to matter. It's "You still hate blacks, you still hate gays, etc."

The cause of attacking someone the left deems inferior (a Conservative) is more important than being intellectually honest, factually accurate, civil, or moral.

Again, by design of their overall nature of self-esteem, they MUST be superior to anyone on the right in intention.

I'll ask the PJ Liberals here.. How often do you judge a Conservative based on intention? Do you feel there are plenty of Conservatives who are decent, kind, well-intentioned human beings?

 

[Mr. Friscus]

No Takers?

@Arkady
@Craig
@Spamature

??

 

[Arkady]

I'll ask the PJ Liberals here.. How often do you judge a Conservative based on intention? Do you feel there are plenty of Conservatives who are decent, kind, well-intentioned human beings?

I judge everyone strictly by intentions. If you volunteer your weekend to serve in a soup kitchen for the poor, but unknown to yourself you're carrying a deadly disease and through no negligence on your part you infect and kill a dozen people, your act was still a moral one, notwithstanding the results. Similarly, if you wait outside a gay bar and beat a patron to within an inch of his life because you hate homosexuals, but as a result of his beating a brain x-ray reveals an operable tumor and you thereby save his life, your act was still an immoral one, notwithstanding the results.

So, I judge conservatives based on intention. If someone believes conservative ideas through blameless ignorance, then I can't fault that, even when the repercussions are ugly. If, on the other hand, it's willful ignorance, that's a different matter. That's a form of intentionality.

I've known plenty of decent conservatives. Most were children or very young adults -- they were ignorant simply because they hadn't had much opportunity to become knowledgeable. They believed the political untruths fed to them by their parents for the same reason children believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the power of prayer: at a certain age, trusting one's elders without evidence is natural. The older a person gets, though, the less common it is for someone to be a decent, kind, well-intentioned human being and also a conservative. The evidence weighs so heavily against conservatism that anyone with an open mind will tend to drift away from it as he ages. I suppose that for the unusually stupid, that's not true. They aren't able to process data very well, and so they may cling blindly to the lies handed to them when they were young, even in the face of evidence that would steer a brighter person in a new direction. That kind of mental disability is blameless. But for those with both intelligence and experience on their side, sticking with conservatism is a sign of a weak character.

 

[as seen on tv]

the Christian right seems to value intent/belief, more than results

both parties are righteous and full of hubris about their policies, with no apparent reason

I will, however, agree that the left's policies have been more harmful to workers, taxpayers, and students.

 

[UPNYA2]

I judge everyone strictly by intentions. If you volunteer your weekend to serve in a soup kitchen for the poor, but unknown to yourself you're carrying a deadly disease and through no negligence on your part you infect and kill a dozen people, your act was still a moral one, notwithstanding the results. Similarly, if you wait outside a gay bar and beat a patron to within an inch of his life because you hate homosexuals, but as a result of his beating a brain x-ray reveals an operable tumor and you thereby save his life, your act was still an immoral one, notwithstanding the results.

So, I judge conservatives based on intention. If someone believes conservative ideas through blameless ignorance, then I can't fault that, even when the repercussions are ugly. If, on the other hand, it's willful ignorance, that's a different matter. That's a form of intentionality.

I've known plenty of decent conservatives. Most were children or very young adults -- they were ignorant simply because they hadn't had much opportunity to become knowledgeable. They believed the political untruths fed to them by their parents for the same reason children believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the power of prayer: at a certain age, trusting one's elders without evidence is natural. The older a person gets, though, the less common it is for someone to be a decent, kind, well-intentioned human being and also a conservative. The evidence weighs so heavily against conservatism that anyone with an open mind will tend to drift away from it as he ages. I suppose that for the unusually stupid, that's not true. They aren't able to process data very well, and so they may cling blindly to the lies handed to them when they were young, even in the face of evidence that would steer a brighter person in a new direction. That kind of mental disability is blameless. But for those with both intelligence and experience on their side, sticking with conservatism is a sign of a weak character.

Well I can certainly see why it was Mr. Friscus went so long with no liberals replying.
He ll, the only one who did actually reinforced the point Mr. Friscus for goodness sake.

"The older a person gets, though, the less common it is for someone to be a decent, kind, well-intentioned human being and also a conservative. The evidence weighs so heavily against conservatism that anyone with an open mind will tend to drift away from it as he ages. I suppose that for the unusually stupid, that's not true. They aren't able to process data very well, and so they may cling blindly to the lies handed to them when they were young, even in the face of evidence that would steer a brighter person in a new direction. That kind of mental disability is blameless. But for those with both intelligence and experience on their side, sticking with conservatism is a sign of a weak character."

Of course ALL of the "data", "evidence", "lies" and "weak character" that is referenced are deemed to be so because, well, because a dem/lib "feels" so. No one can be exposed to data and reach a conclusion other that what the dems/ libs "feel", can't happen.

Bringing us directly back to Mr. Friscus's points;

"The cause of attacking someone the left deems inferior (a Conservative) is more important than being intellectually honest, factually accurate, civil, or moral."

AND;

"Again, by design of their overall nature of self-esteem, they MUST be superior to anyone on the right in intention."

Exhibit A; Arkady.

 

[Arkady]

Of course ALL of the "data", "evidence", "lies" and "weak character" that is referenced are deemed to be so because, well, because a dem/lib "feels" so.

No. I am not and I have never been a Democrat (assuming that's what the childish "di m" name calling was meant to be). And I'm not driven by emotional judgments, I'm driven by rational ones. These are things I think. I do not think that an informed and intelligent person can honestly believe the majority of things that characterize the modern conservative movement. That does not, obviously, mean that I'm superior in intention to every conservative.... just the informed and intelligent ones.

 

[UPNYA2]

No. I am not and I have never been a Democrat (assuming that's what the childish "di m" name calling was meant to be). And I'm not driven by emotional judgments, I'm driven by rational ones. These are things I think. I do not think that an informed and intelligent person can honestly believe the majority of things that characterize the modern conservative movement. That does not, obviously, mean that I'm superior in intention to every conservative.... just the informed and intelligent ones.

I know.

I know exactly what it is that you believe. Doesn't mean you are correct though.

How many of those people that you deem to be "unintelligent" cons, "racist", sexist", homophobic", etc., because they believe differently than you believe also feel that it is they who are superior in intention?

Hell, even true racist, sexist, homophobes obviously feel like the are superior in intention to anyone who does not share their views and opinions.

So what exactly is it again that has you so convinced that somehow, just magically it would appear, makes whatever YOU believe concerning each and every matter and issue to be "THE" truth?


You seriously need to climb on down off of that cross you have placed yourself upon, it doesn't fit you near as well as you seem to feel it does as you preach down to the rest of us merely mortals.

Please.

 

[Arkady]

How many of those people that you deem to be "unintelligent" cons, "racist", sexist", homophobic", etc., because they believe differently than you believe also feel that it is they who are superior in intention?

Most of them, I assume. Either they're wrong or I am.

So what exactly is it again that has you so convinced that somehow, just magically it would appear, makes whatever YOU believe concerning each and every matter and issue to be "THE" truth?

I can be wrong, just like everyone. My beliefs evolve over time as I learn new facts, hear new arguments, or think of new arguments on my own. I fully expect that some of the things I believe are true right now will later be revealed to me to be untrue. But I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in the liberal direction, I spot at least two where I erred in the conservative direction. That has moved me left over time. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for conservatives.

 

[UPNYA2]

Most of them, I assume. Either they're wrong or I am.



I can be wrong, just like everyone. My beliefs evolve over time as I learn new facts, hear new arguments, or think of new arguments on my own. I fully expect that some of the things I believe are true right now will later be revealed to me to be untrue. But I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in the liberal direction, I spot at least two where I erred in the conservative direction. That has moved me left over time. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for conservatives.

Being so bright and all, may I ask if it has ever crossed your mind how awfully similar that excuse sounds to the one damned near every other subset of our society who looks down on another group uses to try to somehow explain away or justify their beliefs that they are superior?

You replace the groups liberal and conservative in your stated belief with those of any number of your PC protected groups, post it on here and watch the sh it hit the fan.

Picture yourself reading post such as these if you can;

"I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in believing a black person is not my equal I spot at least two where I erred in the other direction. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for blacks".

Or;

"I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in believing women are not my equal I spot at least two where I erred in the other direction. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for women".

Or;

"I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in believing trans/homosexuals are not my equal I spot at least two where I erred in the other direction. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for trans/homosexuals".

Or;

"I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in believing Muslims are not my equal I spot at least two where I erred in the other direction. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for Muslims".

Or;

"I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in believing illegal immigrants are not my equal I spot at least two where I erred in the other direction. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for illegal immigrants".


Seems liberals actually do NOT believe everyone is equal, are NOT accepting of diversity, do NOT have feel it is wrong for one group to pronounce itself to be superior to others...
They ONLY find it wrong for others to try to do as they do themselves.

Again, newsflash hoss, YOUR thoughts, beliefs, feelings and opinions STILL are not accepted by all, even though you are obviously convinced they should be...

Get over yourself, it is easy, the rest of us with sense enough to get inside out of a shower of shit long ago did it, I feel sure you could too if you were willing to work on it, 'K?

 

[Arkady]

Seems liberals actually do NOT believe everyone is equal, are NOT accepting of diversity, do NOT have feel it is wrong for one group to pronounce itself to be superior to others...
They ONLY find it wrong for others to try to do as they do themselves./QUOTE]
The argument either holds up or it doesn't in each case. Some people choose to be better than others. Those who choose to be worse don't get to hide behind a wall of moral relativism and demand to be treated as better than they are.

 

[RickWA]

Being so bright and all, may I ask if it has ever crossed your mind how awfully similar that excuse sounds to the one damned near every other subset of our society who looks down on another group uses to try to somehow explain away or justify their beliefs that they are superior?

You replace the groups liberal and conservative in your stated belief with those of any number of your PC protected groups, post it on here and watch the sh it hit the fan.

Picture yourself reading post such as these if you can;

"I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in believing a black person is not my equal I spot at least two where I erred in the other direction. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for blacks".

Or;

"I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in believing women are not my equal I spot at least two where I erred in the other direction. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for women".

Or;

"I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in believing trans/homosexuals are not my equal I spot at least two where I erred in the other direction. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for trans/homosexuals".

Or;

"I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in believing Muslims are not my equal I spot at least two where I erred in the other direction. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for Muslims".

Or;

"I've seen the pattern. For every time I spot an error I've made in believing illegal immigrants are not my equal I spot at least two where I erred in the other direction. If that pattern were to hold, then as I spot and correct more errors in the future, I'll probably come to have even less regard for illegal immigrants".


Seems liberals actually do NOT believe everyone is equal, are NOT accepting of diversity, do NOT have feel it is wrong for one group to pronounce itself to be superior to others...
They ONLY find it wrong for others to try to do as they do themselves.

Again, newsflash hoss, YOUR thoughts, beliefs, feelings and opinions STILL are not accepted by all, even though you are obviously convinced they should be...

Get over yourself, it is easy, the rest of us with sense enough to get inside out of a shower of shit long ago did it, I feel sure you could to if you were willing to work on it, 'K?

He's not a "liberal". These guys have rejected nearly all the basic tenets of liberalism.

Arkady is an extremist, doctrinaire, dogmatic authoritarian leftist.

This is a fact.

 

[justoffal]

He's not a "liberal". These guys have rejected nearly all the basic tenets of liberalism.

Arkady is an extremist, doctrinaire, dogmatic authoritarian leftist.

This is a fact.

Yep....a lethal assassin who sneaks around in a " Nice Guy " suit.

Part of the "We are smarter than you " cabal of know-it-alls that see the unwashed masses as toys and pawns to be manipulated for entertainment, scoffed at and ultimately ignored.

 

[RickWA]

Yep....a lethal assassin who sneaks around in a " Nice Guy " suit.

Part of the "We are smarter than you " cabal of know-it-alls that see the unwashed masses as toys and pawns to be manipulated for entertainment, scoffed at and ultimately ignored.

The pedestrian often considers itself somehow inspired or brilliant. Same stuff, different day.

 

[Lukey]

No. I am not and I have never been a Democrat (assuming that's what the childish "di m" name calling was meant to be). And I'm not driven by emotional judgments, I'm driven by rational ones. These are things I think. I do not think that an informed and intelligent person can honestly believe the majority of things that characterize the modern conservative movement. That does not, obviously, mean that I'm superior in intention to every conservative.... just the informed and intelligent ones.

Why on earth would you think that? You STILL believe the economy's failure to grow at normal post war trend line rates is because of a dearth of government spending (INCREASES) when the FACT is that as real government spending per capita has been increasing the past almost three years, the GDP growth rate has DECLINED. You never explain that disconnect in your logic, you ignore it when I present it again and again and again, and then you go right back to saying the poor economic performance under Obama is due to a "decline" in government spending. That's not rational in any way shape or form. It's dogmatic, ideological and narcissistic.

 

[UPNYA2]

"Some people choose to be better than others."

"Better" according to whom?

What YOU deem to be a "better" person WILL differ from what others would deem to be "better" people. So, AGAIN, what is it that has you so all fired convinced that YOUR feelings of good and bad, right and wrong, better and worse, etc. are somehow "THE" say all, end all truth of the matter?

Never have I met anyone so in love with their self.

Please present me with whatever data, information, evidence etc. that you used to come to the conclusion that your opinions are not only superior to the opinions of others, (on any and every matter by the way), so that I too can review it, see if I reach the same conclusion.

You have told us all how you develop your views based upon your own analysis of these inputs so please allow the rest of us to also review it, see if it moves us to believe that you and always/only you ever reach the true conclusion on everything.


"Those who choose to be worse don't get to hide behind a wall of moral relativism and demand to be treated as better than they are."

A statement that if directed to those illegal invaders from other countries that you defend and promote so by a US citizen would have you howling like a gut shot panther, crying about all the "isms" from the right and sh it.

SO two-faced.

 

[marvin martian]

The pedestrian often considers itself somehow inspired or brilliant. Same stuff, different day.

Hence the enormous payload of insecurity on display daily...

 

[Arkady]

"Some people choose to be better than others."

"Better" according to whom?

According to me, obviously. Were you confused as to who you were discussing this with?

What YOU deem to be a "better" person WILL differ from what others would deem to be "better" people

Agreed. And either I'm right or they are. I don't go in for radical moral relativism.

So, AGAIN, what is it that has you so all fired convinced that YOUR feelings of good and bad, right and wrong, better and worse, etc. are somehow "THE" say all, end all truth of the matter?

I am not convinced of that, as I explained. You should reread -- or, if you're having trouble, let me know, and I can rephrase the hard parts for you.

 

[RickWA]

Hence the enormous payload of insecurity on display daily...

Some folks' parents needed to give them more hugs at an early age.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Yep....a lethal assassin who sneaks around in a " Nice Guy " suit.

Part of the "We are smarter than you " cabal of know-it-alls that see the unwashed masses as toys and pawns to be manipulated for entertainment, scoffed at and ultimately ignored.

That "Let them eat cake" attitude proves that Liberals are agents of the Right Wing they were born in. Please wake up.

 

[marvin martian]

Some folks' parents needed to give them more hugs at an early age.

I think there was a maid in charge of the hugs when he was little...a "governess" as they were known.