This bathroom stuff gets so confusing...

[Bugsy McGurk]

Let's say you have a transvestite - a man who dresses as a woman - who is gay.

Do we really want to force him to use the men's room, supposedly to reduce the likelihood that he would molest children?

 

[Dino]

Let's say you have a transvestite - a man who dresses as a woman - who is gay.

Do we really want to force him to use the men's room, supposedly to reduce the likelihood that he would molest children?

Yes.
Because he's a man.

What's "confusing"?

 

[PhilFish]

Let's say you have a transvestite - a man who dresses as a woman - who is gay.

Do we really want to force him to use the men's room, supposedly to reduce the likelihood that he would molest children?

are you suggesting transvestites molest children, as a general rule?

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Yes.
Because he's a man.

What's "confusing"?

Why would you force a man who
likes sex with males (maybe even with boys) to use a mens room if your goal is to prevent sexual child abuse?

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

are you suggesting transvestites molest children, as a general rule?

Of course not. But I would think that some do, no?

 

[PhilFish]

Of course not. But I would think that some do, no?

I would think so too.

 

[Dino]

Why would you force a man who
likes sex with males (maybe even with boys) to use a mens room if your goal is to prevent sexual child abuse?

How do I know he's gay?
What if he's bi?

You want to make everyone wear a label?

Does the law change based on what someone THINKS?

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

I would think so too.

There you have it.

Why force them to use mens rooms if the goal is avoiding child abuse?

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

How do I know he's gay?
What if he's bi?

You want to make everyone wear a label?

Does the law change based on what someone THINKS?

You don't "know he's gay." That's the hypothetical.

Which you dodge.

 

[connieb]

Let's say you have a transvestite - a man who dresses as a woman - who is gay.

Do we really want to force him to use the men's room, supposedly to reduce the likelihood that he would molest children?

Yes. Because he is a man - and therefore belongs in the men's room. Women should have the right to use the restroom facilities without concern, fear, shame or embarrassment they may feel with having a man in the room with them. It is of course not only children one has to worry about . But, no woman for her own safety should EVER be in an enclosed space with a strange man she does not know where they could possibly overpower and assault them.

Practically speaking - if he is pulling off his drag that well, its likely no one will know, so no harm no foul if he does use the women's room.

The differnece is though - the legal right of business owners, or the police to question a person, or prohibit a person who is a man from using the women's room. If I know for instance that a regular customer is a man dressed as a woman - and my other customers know and don't feel comfortable having him use the restroom facilities - then it should be my right to tell him he must use the men's facilities. If someone is not in full on drag but more like a "pat" from saturday night live, and is also making my other customers uncomfortable, then as a business owner, I should ave the right to ask - and direct that person to the men's room. Or my other customers should ahve the right to tell him he is making them uncomfortable.

Besides which this even a bigger issue in locker room facilities. They are single gender for the comfort of the people using them. So that women - who are modest - have the ability to change in a facilitiy where they can not be observed by men. For many, this is even a critical part of their religion and they would suffer great shame at having their body viewed by a man. It doesn't matter what HE thinks he is - it matters what other people know that he is.

connie

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Yes. Because he is a man - and therefore belongs in the men's room. Women should have the right to use the restroom facilities without concern, fear, shame or embarrassment they may feel with having a man in the room with them. It is of course not only children one has to worry about . But, no woman for her own safety should EVER be in an enclosed space with a strange man she does not know where they could possibly overpower and assault them.

Practically speaking - if he is pulling off his drag that well, its likely no one will know, so no harm no foul if he does use the women's room.

The differnece is though - the legal right of business owners, or the police to question a person, or prohibit a person who is a man from using the women's room. If I know for instance that a regular customer is a man dressed as a woman - and my other customers know and don't feel comfortable having him use the restroom facilities - then it should be my right to tell him he must use the men's facilities. If someone is not in full on drag but more like a "pat" from saturday night live, and is also making my other customers uncomfortable, then as a business owner, I should ave the right to ask - and direct that person to the men's room. Or my other customers should ahve the right to tell him he is making them uncomfortable.

Besides which this even a bigger issue in locker room facilities. They are single gender for the comfort of the people using them. So that women - who are modest - have the ability to change in a facilitiy where they can not be observed by men. For many, this is even a critical part of their religion and they would suffer great shame at having their body viewed by a man. It doesn't matter what HE thinks he is - it matters what other people know that he is.

connie

I still don't know how forcing a gay transvestite to use the mens room reduces the threat of child abuse.

Can you help me with that?

 

[Dino]

You don't "know he's gay." That's the hypothetical.

Which you dodge.

Gay or not, he uses the men's room.
Which I answered, not dodged.

What if he's bi?
You dodged that.
Should he just use whichever restroom he's dressed up for?

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Gay or not, he uses the men's room.
Which I answered, not dodged.

What if he's bi?
You dodged that.
Should he just use whichever restroom he's dressed up for?

You're dodging my question and switching the hypothetical to a bi transvestite.

I would be happy to discuss that if you decide to answer my question - how does forcing a gay transvestite to use the mens room reduce the threat of child abuse?

 

[connieb]

I still don't know how forcing a gay transvestite to use the mens room reduces the threat of child abuse.

Can you help me with that?

Because anything that keeps strange males away from children in a vulnerable situation - helps reduce child abuse.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Because anything that keeps strange males away from children in a vulnerable situation - helps reduce child abuse.

I see. So your position is that the gay transvestite should be banned from using any restroom?

 

[Dino]

You're dodging my question and switching the hypothetical to a bi transvestite.

I would be happy to discuss that if you decide to answer my question - how does forcing a gay transvestite to use the mens room reduce the threat of child abuse?

You didn't ask that question, Dodger.

How does a gay man using any restroom increase the threat of child abuse? We reduce it through education, adult supervision, and law enforcement, how else?

You're still dodging because your own logic backed you into a corner.

 

[connieb]

I see. So your position is that the gay transvestite should be banned from using any restroom?

My position is a gay transvestite should use the mens room that agrees with their biological gender. So that girls and women in the women's room - are afforded the safety of not being forced into close proximity with a strange male, particularly while they are in a vulnerable position.

No one with a brain lets their minor boys use the men's room unaccompanied anyway. But, the women's room has long been considered more safe for women and girls.

 

[Dino]

My position is a gay transvestite should use the mens room that agrees with their biological gender. So that girls and women in the women's room - are afforded the safety of not being forced into close proximity with a strange male, particularly while they are in a vulnerable position.

No one with a brain lets their minor boys use the men's room unaccompanied anyway. But, the women's room has long been considered more safe for women and girls.

Imagine a boy using the restroom alone with a gay man dressed as a woman approaching him?
This type of situation polices itself.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

You didn't ask that question, Dodger.

How does a gay man using any restroom increase the threat of child abuse? We reduce it through education, adult supervision, and law enforcement, how else?

You're still dodging because your own logic backed you into a corner.

Ridiculous. I asked the same question repeatedly, and you dodged it repeatedly by avoiding my hypothetical and trying to substitute a new one. Your new glancing response to my question - law enforcement, etc. - applies no matter which restroom is used.

My question remains though - how does forcing a gay transvestite to use the mens room reduce the threat of child abuse?

I'll give you the honest answer and see if you can manage to agree with it. It doesn't.

Agreed?

 

[Dino]

Ridiculous. I asked the same question repeatedly, and you dodged it repeatedly by avoiding my hypothetical and trying to substitute a new one. Your new glancing response to my question - law enforcement, etc. - applies no matter which restroom is used.

My question remains though - how does forcing a gay transvestite to use the mens room reduce the threat of child abuse?

I'll give you the honest answer and see if you can manage to agree with it. It doesn't.

Agreed?

It's your thread. You feel free to answer anything you like.

It doesn't change the fact that your situation is not the least bit "confusing". It's cut and dried.

You apparently support a person using different rest rooms based on their mindset. I'm completely opposed to such a thing as are most respectful and sensible Americans.