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Why Communism Failed

Zam-Zam

Senator
Flawed by design:

Three years after the Russian Revolution, an Austrian economist, Ludwig von Mises, argued that Communism would fail and explained why. Communism, or socialism, couldn’t succeed, Mises wrote in 1920, because it had abolished free markets so that officials had no market prices to guide them in planning production. Mises was relatively unknown when he made his controversial forecast, but he acquired some international renown later as the leading spokesman of the Austrian (free market) school of economics. Since his death in 1973, his theories have gained new adherents, some now even in Eastern Europe.

The Soviet Union was launched with high hopes. Planning was to be done by a central committee, insuring plenty for everyone. The state was to wither away. But things didn’t work out that way. The Soviet state soon became one of the most oppressive in the world. Millions of Russians starved in the 1920s and 1930s.

As Mises pointed out, the raw materials, labor, tools, and machines used in socialist production are outside the market. They are owned by government and controlled by government planners. No one can buy or sell them. No market prices can develop for them because they aren’t exchangeable.

Modern production is time-consuming and complicated. Producers must consider alternatives when deciding what to produce. And they must consider various means of production when deciding how to produce. Raw materials, tools, and machines must be devoted to the most urgent projects and not wasted on less urgent ones.



Consider, for instance, the planning of a new railroad. Should it be built at all? If so, where? And how? Is building the railroad more urgent than constructing a bridge, building a dam to produce electricity, developing oil fields, or cultivating more land? No central planner, even with a staff of statisticians, could master the countless possibilities. Machines might be substituted to some extent for labor; wood, aluminum, or new synthetic materials might be substituted for iron. But how will the planners decide?

To make these decisions, planners must know the relative values—the exchange ratios or market prices—of the countless factors of production involved. But when these factors are government-owned, there are no trades, and thus, no market prices. Without market prices, the planners have no clues as to the relative values of iron, aluminum, lumber, the new synthetics, or of railroads, oil fields, farm land, power plants, bridges, or housing. Without market prices for the factors of production, the planners are at a loss as to how to coordinate and channel production to satisfy the most urgent needs of consumers.

More than 70 years have passed since the Russian Revolution and 45 years since the end of World War n. Why then do the Russian people still lack adequate housing and many everyday items? Why does agricultural produce rot in the fields for lack of equipment to harvest and transport it? Why are factories and oil fields so poorly maintained that production declines? Because the raw materials, tools, machines, factories, and farms are not privately owned. Without the bids and offers of private owners, prices reflecting their relative market values cannot develop. And without market prices, it is impossible to coordinate production activities so that the goods and services consumers need will be available. That is why Communism fails.

In a competitive economy, where factors of production are privately owned, these problems are solved daily as owners calculate the monetary values of the various factors and then buy, sell, and trade them as seems desirable, As Mises wrote in 1920, “Every step that takes us away from private ownership of the means of production and from the use of money also takes us away from rational economics.”

Today, even Communists are coming to recognize that Mises was right. The U.S.S.R., a socialist society without private property and monetary calculation, is still “floundering in the ocean of possible and conceivable economic combinations,” as Mises foresaw in 1920, “without the compass of economic calculation.” Will she now take the important step Mises recommended of introducing private ownership of the means of production?




Why Communism Failed - Foundation for Economic Education (fee.org)
 

EatTheRich

President
So why is misery so much more general and state oppression potentially worse in the capitalist world? And why did it take trillions of dollars and millions of lives sacrificed by the leading imperialist powers to sabotage the Soviet Union?
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
So why is misery so much more general and state oppression potentially worse in the capitalist world? And why did it take trillions of dollars and millions of lives sacrificed by the leading imperialist powers to sabotage the Soviet Union?
It isn't.

That's just something you say in the absence of a legitimate argument.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
So why is misery so much more general and state oppression potentially worse in the capitalist world? And why did it take trillions of dollars and millions of lives sacrificed by the leading imperialist powers to sabotage the Soviet Union?
Keyword, potentially. Meanwhile the Soviet Union wasn't sabotaged it shipped people off to the gulags, and/or concurrently starved, beat, shot or otherwise drove to their deaths millions upon millions upon millions of individuals for sake of this so-called sabotage.... Which in fact it wasn't it was nothing more than a failed ideology collapsing in upon itself which was for decades propped up on the backs of the Dead for sake of appearances
 

EatTheRich

President
It isn't.

That's just something you say in the absence of a legitimate argument.
What regime is worse than Hitler's? Why is a famine almost 100 years ago in the Soviet Union still considered an unanswerable argument against socialism, while the starvation deaths in India which have occurred every day without fail for centuries are considered entirely unremarkable?
 

EatTheRich

President
Keyword, potentially. Meanwhile the Soviet Union wasn't sabotaged it shipped people off to the gulags, and/or concurrently starved, beat, shot or otherwise drove to their deaths millions upon millions upon millions of individuals for sake of this so-called sabotage.... Which in fact it wasn't it was nothing more than a failed ideology collapsing in upon itself which was for decades propped up on the backs of the Dead for sake of appearances
The Stalinist counterrevolution with all its attendant atrocities could only be made possible by the 14-country invasion of the USSR, the civil war organized via the death camps and pogroms of Kolchak and Denikin, the defeat of the German revolution, the Red Scare persecutions, and the invitation to Mussolini to take power. It was his rejection of the forthright advance of communism, in favor of the search for a middle road between socialist revolution and capitalist restoration, between the methods of socialism and the methods of capitalism, that led to such incredible atrocities.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
The Stalinist counterrevolution with all its attendant atrocities could only be made possible by the 14-country invasion of the USSR, the civil war organized via the death camps and pogroms of Kolchak and Denikin, the defeat of the German revolution, the Red Scare persecutions, and the invitation to Mussolini to take power. It was his rejection of the forthright advance of communism, in favor of the search for a middle road between socialist revolution and capitalist restoration, between the methods of socialism and the methods of capitalism, that led to such incredible atrocities.
Well..yes..other than by his orders... resulting in the death of millions
 

EatTheRich

President
Well..yes..other than by his orders... resulting in the death of millions
And intended to make possible that “middle road” ushering in a back door reopening to capitalism. Which is what could only be done over the dead bodies of those millions … the retreat from socialism signified by Stalin’s break with Lenin’s politics.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
And intended to make possible that “middle road” ushering in a back door reopening to capitalism. Which is what could only be done over the dead bodies of those millions … the retreat from socialism signified by Stalin’s break with Lenin’s politics.
Baloney. Forced collectivization under the guise of productive socialism... Killed millions
 

write on

Senator
Flawed by design:

Three years after the Russian Revolution, an Austrian economist, Ludwig von Mises, argued that Communism would fail and explained why. Communism, or socialism, couldn’t succeed, Mises wrote in 1920, because it had abolished free markets so that officials had no market prices to guide them in planning production. Mises was relatively unknown when he made his controversial forecast, but he acquired some international renown later as the leading spokesman of the Austrian (free market) school of economics. Since his death in 1973, his theories have gained new adherents, some now even in Eastern Europe.

The Soviet Union was launched with High hopes. Planning was to be done by a central committee, insuring plenty for everyone. The state was to wither away. But things didn’t work out that way. The Soviet state soon became one of the most oppressive in the world. Millions of Russians starved in the 1920s and 1930s.

As Mises pointed out, the raw materials, labor, tools, and machines used in socialist production are outside the market. They are owned by government and controlled by government planners. No one can buy or sell them. No market prices can develop for them because they aren’t exchangeable.

Modern production is time-consuming and complicated. Producers must consider alternatives when deciding what to produce. And they must consider various means of production when deciding how to produce. Raw materials, tools, and machines must be devoted to the most urgent projects and not wasted on less urgent ones.



Consider, for instance, the planning of a new railroad. Should it be built at all? If so, where? And how? Is building the railroad more urgent than constructing a bridge, building a dam to produce electricity, developing oil fields, or cultivating more land? No central planner, even with a staff of statisticians, could master the countless possibilities. Machines might be substituted to some extent for labor; wood, aluminum, or new synthetic materials might be substituted for iron. But how will the planners decide?

To make these decisions, planners must know the relative values—the exchange ratios or market prices—of the countless factors of production involved. But when these factors are government-owned, there are no trades, and thus, no market prices. Without market prices, the planners have no clues as to the relative values of iron, aluminum, lumber, the new synthetics, or of railroads, oil fields, farm land, power plants, bridges, or housing. Without market prices for the factors of production, the planners are at a loss as to how to coordinate and channel production to satisfy the most urgent needs of consumers.

More than 70 years have passed since the Russian Revolution and 45 years since the end of World War n. Why then do the Russian people still lack adequate housing and many everyday items? Why does agricultural produce rot in the fields for lack of equipment to harvest and transport it? Why are factories and oil fields so poorly maintained that production declines? Because the raw materials, tools, machines, factories, and farms are not privately owned. Without the bids and offers of private owners, prices reflecting their relative market values cannot develop. And without market prices, it is impossible to coordinate production activities so that the goods and services consumers need will be available. That is why Communism fails.

In a competitive economy, where factors of production are privately owned, these problems are solved daily as owners calculate the monetary values of the various factors and then buy, sell, and trade them as seems desirable, As Mises wrote in 1920, “Every step that takes us away from private ownership of the means of production and from the use of money also takes us away from rational economics.”

Today, even Communists are coming to recognize that Mises was right. The U.S.S.R., a socialist society without private property and monetary calculation, is still “floundering in the ocean of possible and conceivable economic combinations,” as Mises foresaw in 1920, “without the compass of economic calculation.” Will she now take the important step Mises recommended of introducing private ownership of the means of production?




Why Communism Failed - Foundation for Economic Education (fee.org)
What makes you think the U.S. would copy the old USSR?

As is happening, the right wing is attempting to re write history.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
What makes you think the U.S. would copy the old USSR?

As is happening, the right wing is attempting to re write history.
What can be said is that if anything, whoever tries to redefine communism as benevolent, is rewriting history.
 

write on

Senator
What can be said is that if anything, whoever tries to redefine communism as benevolent, is rewriting history.
Communism?

Haven't you heard? Fascism is all the rage nowadays.

Many were tricked earlier on with the bs trickle down theory.

The same as they were all cockeyed watcing Beso's dismantle a bridge because damnit, he can!

When you see what just happened but continue to concentrate on the dismantling of said bridge with wild eyes of amazement and while your pockets are being emptied, don't look back at me shrugging your shoulders.

o_O
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Communism?

Haven't you heard? Fascism is all the rage nowadays.

Many were tricked earlier on with the bs trickle down theory.

The same as they were all cockeyed watcing Beso's dismantle a bridge because damnit, he can!

When you see what just happened but continue to concentrate on the dismantling of said bridge with wild eyes of amazement and while your pockets are being emptied, don't look back at me shrugging your shoulders.

o_O

This thread is about communism.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
And intended to make possible that “middle road” ushering in a back door reopening to capitalism. Which is what could only be done over the dead bodies of those millions … the retreat from socialism signified by Stalin’s break with Lenin’s politics.
You say things and back it with nothing.

Why should anyone believe your nonsense?
 
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