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Why Communism Failed

EatTheRich

President
Baloney. Forced collectivization under the guise of productive socialism... Killed millions
Right. And the violation of long-standing communist principle that was forced collectivization was made politically necessary by the retreat from land redistribution and the worker-peasant alliance that typified communism.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Right. And the violation of long-standing communist principle that was forced collectivization was made politically necessary by the retreat from land redistribution and the worker-peasant alliance that typified communism.
oh. no. it was forced collectivization...by starvation, murder, etc.
 

EatTheRich

President
oh. no. it was forced collectivization...by starvation, murder, etc.
Yes. Made politically necessary by the prior attempt to retreat from building socialism … as Lenin and Trotsky (the leading communist leaders of the era) warned would be the case when they staked their political futures on opposition to Stalin’s anti-communist course (made possible by the anticommunist pressure from the Soviet Union’s enemies).
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Yes. Made politically necessary by the prior attempt to retreat from building socialism … as Lenin and Trotsky (the leading communist leaders of the era) warned would be the case when they staked their political futures on opposition to Stalin’s anti-communist course (made possible by the anticommunist pressure from the Soviet Union’s enemies).
No.
 

EatTheRich

President
Yes. Politics is always about class struggle. And when the bureaucratic caste empowered by communism’s weakness in the USSR drove a wedge between the workers and peasants in order to win political power for themselves at the workers’ expense, they set up a future where they would have to turn on the peasants in order to lean on the support of the workers.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Yes. Politics is always about class struggle. And when the bureaucratic caste empowered by communism’s weakness in the USSR drove a wedge between the workers and peasants in order to win political power for themselves at the workers’ expense, they set up a future where they would have to turn on the peasants in order to lean on the support of the workers.
Unless of course the peasants were the workers. Which they were
 

EatTheRich

President
Sure they are. Was what they produced taken from them, or were they remunerated for their work?
What determines social class is relationship to the means of production. Peasants produced for personal subsistence, for market sale, and for taxes/requisitions by the state and by private armies in variable proportions before and after the revolution.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
What determines social class is relationship to the means of production. Peasants produced for personal subsistence, for market sale, and for taxes/requisitions by the state and by private armies in variable proportions before and after the revolution.
Under Stalin peasants were forced to engage in forced collectivization... Not for personal subsistence, but with no subsistence, considering millions of them start to death. And it was not in variable proportions.. their production was taken nearly in its entirety. Hence the starvation


Did you read about the holodomor yet...
 

EatTheRich

President
Under Stalin peasants were forced to engage in forced collectivization... Not for personal subsistence, but with no subsistence, considering millions of them start to death. And it was not in variable proportions.. their production was taken nearly in its entirety. Hence the starvation


Did you read about the holodomor yet...
Yes, probably at least as much as you have over the years. And posted much about it too. I agree entirely with everything you say here. What you fail to acknowledge is that that was not the work of the working-class revolution but that of the bureaucratic white-collar professionals’ counterrevolution clawing back against the workers’ gains.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Yes, probably at least as much as you have over the years. And posted much about it too. I agree entirely with everything you say here. What you fail to acknowledge is that that was not the work of the working-class revolution but that of the bureaucratic white-collar professionals’ counterrevolution clawing back against the workers’ gains.
Every time communism fails (which is every time), communists do their level best to blame everything except communism.

I don't think too many folks are going to buy it, however. Communism as an economic system is flawed by design. Its failure is inevitable.
 
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