New Posts
  • Hi there guest! Welcome to PoliticalJack.com. Register for free to join our community?

Win Win

MaryAnne, women are not battling here. Access to contraception is just as it was before Obama went stomping all over the Catholic Church. No matter how this plays out, women's access to contraception will not change. Don't substitute the strawman. Your guy did an awful thing.

Obama will determine if women (and men and children) lose here. If Obama doesn't get his boot off the Church's throat, they'll be forced to abandon health insurance coverage, and possibly close healthcare facilities. They've already said they would have to do this if he doesn't let up. A couple more million people without healthcare BECAUSE of Obama's healthcare reform. 20% of the hospital beds in this country eliminated BECAUSE of Obama's healthcare reform. Imagine how that will play out on election day. The Church is not running for reelection. That frustration and anger is going to go somewhere.
 
MaryAnne, women are not battling here. Access to contraception is just as it was before Obama went stomping all over the Catholic Church. No matter how this plays out, women's access to contraception will not change. Don't substitute the strawman. Your guy did an awful thing.

Obama will determine if women (and men and children) lose here. If Obama doesn't get his boot off the Church's throat, they'll be forced to abandon health insurance coverage, and possibly close healthcare facilities. They've already said they would have to do this if he doesn't let up. A couple more million people without healthcare BECAUSE of Obama's healthcare reform. 20% of the hospital beds in this country eliminated BECAUSE of Obama's healthcare reform. Imagine how that will play out on election day. The Church is not running for reelection. That frustration and anger is going to go somewhere.

LOLOL gigi! Obama's boot is on the throat of the Catholic Church and they may start closing hospitals?

Sorry, but both of those notions are hilarious! :D
 
MaryAnne, women are not battling here. Access to contraception is just as it was before Obama went stomping all over the Catholic Church. No matter how this plays out, women's access to contraception will not change. Don't substitute the strawman. Your guy did an awful thing.

Obama will determine if women (and men and children) lose here. If Obama doesn't get his boot off the Church's throat, they'll be forced to abandon health insurance coverage, and possibly close healthcare facilities. They've already said they would have to do this if he doesn't let up. A couple more million people without healthcare BECAUSE of Obama's healthcare reform. 20% of the hospital beds in this country eliminated BECAUSE of Obama's healthcare reform. Imagine how that will play out on election day. The Church is not running for reelection. That frustration and anger is going to go somewhere.

GIGI, health ins isn't offered to women as a gift, it's what they want to take the job. And according to so many on your side all people have to do is just get another job if this is the case. You seem to have no problem with workers who are having benefits cut, wages cut, and working conditions changed at an employers whim. If they can get people with the training to do the work for less or without benefits then go for it girl.
 
GIGI, health ins isn't offered to women as a gift, it's what they want to take the job. And according to so many on your side all people have to do is just get another job if this is the case. You seem to have no problem with workers who are having benefits cut, wages cut, and working conditions changed at an employers whim. If they can get people with the training to do the work for less or without benefits then go for it girl.

I think you're confusing me with someone else. I"ve never advocated for any of the things you claim I have. I'm not sure what "side" you're talking about.
It really does sound like you've got your posters confused.

Anyway, back to the issue.
 
It is easy for someone to say,"Get another job!" Easier said than done in this economy.

Did someone say that? Do you want to discuss the issue you brought up or do you now want to move the goalposts to some imaginary point of view that no one has expresssed?
 
On the debate over contraception the women will win this one and Andrew Sullivan lays it on the line.

Those hard nosed old men,including the Catholics on cable picked the wrong side,thanks to falling in the trap of ratings at any cost.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11022972

Always interesting how all their ploys backfires and end up being a win-win situation for President Obama.. As the writer noted.. so much for getting people back to work.. sidetracking with this ploy
____________________________________________________________________
Excerpts from your link:
The more Machiavellian observer might even suspect this is actually an improved bait and switch by Obama to more firmly identify the religious right with opposition to contraception, its weakest issue by far, and to shore up support among independent women and his more liberal base. I’ve found by observing this president closely for years that what often seem like short-term tactical blunders turn out in the long run to be strategically shrewd. And if this was a trap, the religious right walked right into it.


snip//

In other words, this is a potential political winner for President Obama, not just among liberals, many women, younger voters, and moderates—but among American Catholics! And even more so in light of the pragmatic compromise announced last week, which puts the administration precisely where it should be, and in a much better place than it was before the announcement, and reinforces Obama’s reputation as a man willing to compromise, one of his core strengths among independent voters. I found the original rule a step too far. To my mind, when religious institutions play invaluable roles in helping the poor, curing the sick, and housing the homeless, they should be rewarded, not punished. And within reasonable limits, their right to set their own rules on health-care plans should be respected. One reason they do such great work is their religious convictions. We should celebrate that—and try to balance their views (however wrongheaded we may consider them to be) with other legitimate social goals.
 
As much as gigi may wish otherwise, The Catholic Church absolutely will NOT indulge in some sort of hateful, punitive, power play, to "punish" those who've crossed it. It's hard to conceive of much, that could be more anti-Christian than that.

Back to the top post though....The Fox/GOP STILL doesn't appear to've figured out that they're little boys among Obama/Democratic men, when it comes to engaging the political game. Someone oughta forward these nincompoops, a copy of "Bre'er Rabbit". But..as Sullivan suggests, as Fox is primarily driven by their short term, day-to-day, profit motive, it could be that the GOP has no way out of their self-destructiveness.
 
Did someone say that? Do you want to discuss the issue you brought up or do you now want to move the goalposts to some imaginary point of view that no one has expresssed?

Yes,someone said that! Matter of fact it has been said several times on this board!
 
Obama has made many decisions that the pundits become hysterical about, saying it would do him great harm.

Yet he keeps right on ticking while his detractors keep on going down.

McConnell vows to bring this to the Senate floor. What is the latest Congressional rating? 10% last time I read a poll.And McConnell can do nothing with out Harry Reid agreeing. I cannot see Harry doing that any time soon.
 
It's been fascinating to watch how the Obamans have systematically singled out each individual aspect of the traditional GOP coalition and laid each one low, one by one. Yet, the GOP STILL doesn't appear to've figured out quite what's happened to them.

And on this note, I'm convinced that the Obamans are saving Mitt for last. Mitt is the avatar for the core Republican establishment. Once Obama's deconstructed Mitt (assuming the GOP gives him the chance), there'll be nothing left standing of the GOP as we knew it.
 
President Obama has some great advisers. The GOP is not really so grand these days.. Mitt and the GOP will eventually realize Mitt is in the twilight zone.. after President Obama resizes his undistinguished avatar.. Ho-hum..
 
Always interesting how all their ploys backfires and end up being a win-win situation for President Obama.. As the writer noted.. so much for getting people back to work.. sidetracking with this ploy
____________________________________________________________________
Excerpts from your link:
The more Machiavellian observer might even suspect this is actually an improved bait and switch by Obama to more firmly identify the religious right with opposition to contraception, its weakest issue by far, and to shore up support among independent women and his more liberal base. I’ve found by observing this president closely for years that what often seem like short-term tactical blunders turn out in the long run to be strategically shrewd. And if this was a trap, the religious right walked right into it.


snip//

In other words, this is a potential political winner for President Obama, not just among liberals, many women, younger voters, and moderates—but among American Catholics! And even more so in light of the pragmatic compromise announced last week, which puts the administration precisely where it should be, and in a much better place than it was before the announcement, and reinforces Obama’s reputation as a man willing to compromise, one of his core strengths among independent voters. I found the original rule a step too far. To my mind, when religious institutions play invaluable roles in helping the poor, curing the sick, and housing the homeless, they should be rewarded, not punished. And within reasonable limits, their right to set their own rules on health-care plans should be respected. One reason they do such great work is their religious convictions. We should celebrate that—and try to balance their views (however wrongheaded we may consider them to be) with other legitimate social goals.


Obama didn't offer a compromise. He merely offered to take the Church's name off of what they would still be providing. Many of these organizations are self insured. They may use insurance companies to do the paperwork, but themselves pay out every claim.

Further, even those who don't self insure will still be providing this by paying the premiums that WILL cover the cost of these claims.

Fairsheet, I don't know what you're talking about with what I wish, but I don't think you do, either.
 
LOLOL gigi! Obama's boot is on the throat of the Catholic Church and they may start closing hospitals?

Sorry, but both of those notions are hilarious! :D

Yup. He came with this mandate they can't follow and he won't let up. And they've already said several times that they're worried about having to close facilities to avoid violating their conscience.

And yes, I think he is being shrewd, too. I think this whole thing might be to push people onto the healthcare exchanges. And possibly also to make PP a designated network provider. Insurance companies will complain about the cost. Obama et al will suggest PP, citinig that we alrady subsidize them.
 
If Obama doesn't get his boot off the Church's throat, they'll be forced to abandon health insurance coverage, and possibly close healthcare facilities. They've already said they would have to do this if he doesn't let up.(gigi)

you said this. not me or someone else.


Originally Posted by 888888
GIGI, health ins isn't offered to women as a gift, it's what they want to take the job. And according to so many on your side all people have to do is just get another job if this is the case. You seem to have no problem with workers who are having benefits cut, wages cut, and working conditions changed at an employers whim. If they can get people with the training to do the work for less or without benefits then go for it girl.
 
Really?

Is that why the Obama/Democratic 'men' lost control of the Congress in 2010?

I didn't know there was anyone left, who still "feels" that the Obama/Democrats actually "lost" the 2010 elections. But, that some still continue to feel otherwise, goes straight to my point.
 
Back
Top