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Yet another mass murder

middleview

President
Supporting Member
So once again we see some mentally ill individual who should not have been able to buy a gun, but did. There is no requirement in Michigan for Universal Background checks.

They do have a registration requirement, but that appears pretty useless in that a private seller can easily ignore it. It again points to the need for a federal set of laws, not state laws. This gun may have been purchased out of state. No record in the Michigan database. The gun may have been stolen....no record of a theft is required. Even if they do track it back to the last registered owner....the trail will quickly go cold.

This isn't rocket science.
 
So once again we see some mentally ill individual who should not have been able to buy a gun, but did. There is no requirement in Michigan for Universal Background checks.

They do have a registration requirement, but that appears pretty useless in that a private seller can easily ignore it. It again points to the need for a federal set of laws, not state laws. This gun may have been purchased out of state. No record in the Michigan database. The gun may have been stolen....no record of a theft is required. Even if they do track it back to the last registered owner....the trail will quickly go cold.

This isn't rocket science.
Let's start holding psychiatrists responsible if they're treating violent mental patients, and don't follow the rules for reporting them.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Let's start holding psychiatrists responsible if they're treating violent mental patients, and don't follow the rules for reporting them.
The guy had already had a conviction for a gun crime. Where did he buy this one? The seller should be charged as an accomplice.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
The guy had already had a conviction for a gun crime. Where did he buy this one? The seller should be charged as an accomplice.
Where did he get the gun? I don't know, but I do know getting things such as weapons and drugs illegally is not an uncommon occurrence in America.

It's almost as if some folks are going to ignore every law you pass.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
The guy had already had a conviction for a gun crime. Where did he buy this one? The seller should be charged as an accomplice.
So conviction of a crime seems to me to be one criteria that prohibits the purchase or possession of a gun.

That's one actionable criteria.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Looks to me like a diagnosed mental illness could stand as one criteria that prohibits the purchase or possession of a gun.

That's two actionable criteria
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Where did he get the gun? I don't know, but I do know getting things such as weapons and drugs illegally is not an uncommon occurrence in America.

It's almost as if some folks are going to ignore every law you pass.
I've posted a few ideas in the past. Like these.
1. Federal universal background checks. Must be performed by an FFL.
2. Ammunition purchase license card. The card would be issued by an FFL, would have the owners picture on it and encoded on the card the serial number and caliber of every gun owned. You can only buy ammo for a gun listed on the card.
3. When you sell a gun that gun is removed from your license card and added to the buyers.
4. There would be no database record associated with the APL card. No way to track back to the owner.
5. A sale without a background check would make the seller liable for whatever crime is committed using the gun.
6. If a gun is stolen and not reported it would be equivalent to a sale.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Looks to me like a diagnosed mental illness could stand as one criteria that prohibits the purchase or possession of a gun.

That's two actionable criteria
It is, if a court orders psychiatric care it must be reported. The problem with Cho is that Virginia had made reporting a requirement only if a patient were committed...Cho was ordered to undergo psychiatric care, but was not committed to an institution.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
It is, if a court orders psychiatric care it must be reported. The problem with Cho is that Virginia had made reporting a requirement only if a patient were committed...Cho was ordered to undergo psychiatric care, but was not committed to an institution.
Perhaps a federal law will have to address that
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
I agree. I think state gun laws should all be repealed in favor of one set of national laws.
Guns used in crimes in New York were traced to other states....
So thus far we are greed? Individuals that have committed a crime, and I don't mean speeding that sort of thing but crime, should be prohibited from access to guns. Individuals with a diagnosed mental condition should be prohibited from owning a gun.

There we've established two criteria
 
We have a mental health crisis in this country, it would be nice if the country could have an honest discussion about that instead of the usual "You never let a serious crisis go to waste" to further an agenda.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
I've posted a few ideas in the past. Like these.
1. Federal universal background checks. Must be performed by an FFL.
2. Ammunition purchase license card. The card would be issued by an FFL, would have the owners picture on it and encoded on the card the serial number and caliber of every gun owned. You can only buy ammo for a gun listed on the card.
3. When you sell a gun that gun is removed from your license card and added to the buyers.
4. There would be no database record associated with the APL card. No way to track back to the owner.
5. A sale without a background check would make the seller liable for whatever crime is committed using the gun.
6. If a gun is stolen and not reported it would be equivalent to a sale.
So, pass more laws. When that doesn't work, pass more laws. Act astonished every time it fails...And then do it all over again.

You can also not fix the nation's drug problem using the same method.

Enjoy.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
So, pass more laws. When that doesn't work, pass more laws. Act astonished every time it fails...And then do it all over again.

You can also not fix the nation's drug problem using the same method.

Enjoy.
Do nothing. Is that your solution? I want national laws, not a patchwork of laws in every state and sometime cities with their own.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Do nothing. Is that your solution? I want national laws, not a patchwork of laws in every state and sometime cities with their own.
No.

There is no one reason why people kill other people, therefore there is no one single solution. A myriad of human behavioral issues must be addressed. This will take time, and likely be a difficult process.

No one wants to hear that, they want a simple solution they can fit on a bumper sticker.

It hasn't worked yet, but it's simple and requires less thought, so people like it.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
No.

There is no one reason why people kill other people, therefore there is no one single solution. A myriad of human behavioral issues must be addressed. This will take time, and likely be a difficult process.

No one wants to hear that, they want a simple solution they can fit on a bumper sticker.

It hasn't worked yet, but it's simple and requires less thought, so people like it.
The patchwork of laws across the country are part of the problem. Chicago has strict gun laws. Drive to Cicero and you can buy a gun that would be illegal 20 miles away.

Do you think gun rights for convicts would be a good idea? Gun sales in the parking lot of gun shows? That is where the Columbine killers got one of theirs.

Yes, a perfect solution will take time. In the mean time your preference is to do nothing. I'm in favor of repealing all state or local gun laws to be replaced by a federal law that is uniformly applied nationwide.
 

Number_58

I'm one of the deplorables lefty warns you about.
So once again we see some mentally ill individual who should not have been able to buy a gun, but did. There is no requirement in Michigan for Universal Background checks.

They do have a registration requirement, but that appears pretty useless in that a private seller can easily ignore it. It again points to the need for a federal set of laws, not state laws. This gun may have been purchased out of state. No record in the Michigan database. The gun may have been stolen....no record of a theft is required. Even if they do track it back to the last registered owner....the trail will quickly go cold.

This isn't rocket science.
The criminal was charged with a felony gun crime in 2019 and it got pleaded down to a misdemeanor and he remained free. If existing gun laws, particularly the one he was charged with less than three years ago, were enforced...this shooting wouldn't have happened. How many guns in America weren't used to kill someone yesterday, by a person with mental issues?

This isn't rocket science.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Yes, a perfect solution will take time. In the mean time your preference is to do nothing.

That's a lie.

If you can't be honest, that would indicate the weakness of your position.

We disagree. I'm comfortable with that. I have no desire to change your mind,

It's all good.
 
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