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About them doggone drones.

Gramps

Mayor
We are at war. At least that's the deal for years now.

War is nasty business. The side with the best of everything customarily wins. That means the best of everything from equipment to armament to vehicles and sea-worthy ships and aircraft capable of out performing the enemies planes. It's about inventiveism and mindsets to come up with whatever one needs to get the job done; I leave the atomic bomb as proof of how well it works.

Terrorists have invaded our homeland and destroyed structures along with lives to make a point and in some cases got away with it. We have had a few turncoats who've opted to switch sides and have undertaken the role of subversives against their own nation to carry out assignments given them by our enemies. They are traitors.

Now, those simple explanations said, what is the problem with some who think we are wrong to send drones to do the work that human beings once had to do; like do you think we should go back to war horses and cannon and musketry or should we do as every nation engaged in war has done since the dawn of records -- go with out best in order to put the biggest hurt on our enemy.

Collateral damage is a Johnnie-come-lately in the scheme of things. Hell, under the title of unfortunate incidents innocent people have been dying by millions in every war ever fought. It would be impossible to curtail offenses with guidelines to protect everyone outside of the military participants. Forget it. It's sad, really sad for those afflicted and their loved ones BUT that is not going to change.

About turncoats. Get them. They made a decision and now it is our obligation to make one too. The penalty for such crimes in time of war is death. It's a bummer, hu? Did you know that the Articles of War which set standards for our own military personnel almost all end with the brunt statement that says if you violate those rules "the penalty is death or as the courts-martial' determine. That's our people, the good guys so why is there any question about the rights of turncoats to a fair trial? Oh, courts-martials are not always fair either, but they are a fact of life.

These are my feelings as a veteran of the United States Army in time of war who served in combat areas and did his duty. "Take no prisoners" might sound awful to those far behind the lines but the purpose for such a command usually outweighs the morality of the call. Situations reversed might be once reason. Cruelty to prisoners is also not a new conception by any means. I give you Andersonville as an example or the Bataan death march. How about the Nazi ovens in concentration camps? Yeah! War is hell.

There was a time when wars were won based strictly on numbers. Not so today. The Charge of the Light Brigade was a folly then and today would be total madness when the availability of today's technology is right at hand.

It's war. Who started it? Hell, who knows. Maybe this war is just another splinter from the Crusades, for all I know or a result of the peace terms of WWI as some people claim. But, unlike previous wars fought to take and hold territory this one snuck up on us -- it's a war on terrorist whereever they are or whereever they opt to strike and it behooves us to use whatever means available to prevail. We owe that to our good citizens, you know, the ones who keep their loyalties intact.

Sorry.

Gramps
 
no need to say sorry. I'm all for our using all the technology at our disposal to wipe out those who would harm us. if I were president, I'd do everything in my power to prevent another attack.....and taking out those we know who've turned against us, too bad for them cause here come the drones, here come the drones.
 
All of you say this now but let say Bush were still President would you still feel the same?

I'll let you answer this and if a GOP win the White House in 2016 I hope all of you that support the usage of drone attacks give him or her the same respect or it will show for a fact you only support the usage only when your political party is in charge...

Also before some of you say that it will be impossible for the GOP to win in 2016 just remember you felt the same way in 2008 and then the 2010 elections cost you the House, so nothing is impossible at this point...
 
Drones fly over head in groups of 6 or 7 for 24/7.No one knows when they will strike or who or why.

They strike at night, they hit once and twice and three times so that no one dare run to help.

They are killing Tribal families who had never heard of America before the Drones started killing them. Ancient peoples who have been on their Lands for thousands of years.

The Tribes, The Indigenous peoples have to go in order that US Corperates have an easy road. ................
 
All of you say this now but let say Bush were still President would you still feel the same?

I'll let you answer this and if a GOP win the White House in 2016 I hope all of you that support the usage of drone attacks give him or her the same respect or it will show for a fact you only support the usage only when your political party is in charge...

Also before some of you say that it will be impossible for the GOP to win in 2016 just remember you felt the same way in 2008 and then the 2010 elections cost you the House, so nothing is impossible at this point...

Li'l George engaged a full scale war against an entire godamned country based on "fuzzy intelligence" . Pres. Obama is targetting drones against very well vetted individuals. There is absolutely NO moral equivalence.
 
All of you say this now but let say Bush were still President would you still feel the same?

I'll let you answer this and if a GOP win the White House in 2016 I hope all of you that support the usage of drone attacks give him or her the same respect or it will show for a fact you only support the usage only when your political party is in charge...

Also before some of you say that it will be impossible for the GOP to win in 2016 just remember you felt the same way in 2008 and then the 2010 elections cost you the House, so nothing is impossible at this point...

I criticized Bush for mishandling the war in Afghanistan from 2002 on. He failed to do the job. Because the Bush administration was inept, the Al Qaeda and Taliban leadership escaped. After early 2002 there were attacks in Mali, Madrid, London and a number of other cities. This wasn't a criminal enterprise. It was war. I never criticized Bush for attacks on Al Qaeda leadership in Pakistan....If anything I criticized them for failing to focus on the real war.
 
We are at war. At least that's the deal for years now.

War is nasty business. The side with the best of everything customarily wins. That means the best of everything from equipment to armament to vehicles and sea-worthy ships and aircraft capable of out performing the enemies planes. It's about inventiveism and mindsets to come up with whatever one needs to get the job done; I leave the atomic bomb as proof of how well it works.

Terrorists have invaded our homeland and destroyed structures along with lives to make a point and in some cases got away with it. We have had a few turncoats who've opted to switch sides and have undertaken the role of subversives against their own nation to carry out assignments given them by our enemies. They are traitors.

Now, those simple explanations said, what is the problem with some who think we are wrong to send drones to do the work that human beings once had to do; like do you think we should go back to war horses and cannon and musketry or should we do as every nation engaged in war has done since the dawn of records -- go with out best in order to put the biggest hurt on our enemy.

Collateral damage is a Johnnie-come-lately in the scheme of things. Hell, under the title of unfortunate incidents innocent people have been dying by millions in every war ever fought. It would be impossible to curtail offenses with guidelines to protect everyone outside of the military participants. Forget it. It's sad, really sad for those afflicted and their loved ones BUT that is not going to change.

About turncoats. Get them. They made a decision and now it is our obligation to make one too. The penalty for such crimes in time of war is death. It's a bummer, hu? Did you know that the Articles of War which set standards for our own military personnel almost all end with the brunt statement that says if you violate those rules "the penalty is death or as the courts-martial' determine. That's our people, the good guys so why is there any question about the rights of turncoats to a fair trial? Oh, courts-martials are not always fair either, but they are a fact of life.

These are my feelings as a veteran of the United States Army in time of war who served in combat areas and did his duty. "Take no prisoners" might sound awful to those far behind the lines but the purpose for such a command usually outweighs the morality of the call. Situations reversed might be once reason. Cruelty to prisoners is also not a new conception by any means. I give you Andersonville as an example or the Bataan death march. How about the Nazi ovens in concentration camps? Yeah! War is hell.

There was a time when wars were won based strictly on numbers. Not so today. The Charge of the Light Brigade was a folly then and today would be total madness when the availability of today's technology is right at hand.

It's war. Who started it? Hell, who knows. Maybe this war is just another splinter from the Crusades, for all I know or a result of the peace terms of WWI as some people claim. But, unlike previous wars fought to take and hold territory this one snuck up on us -- it's a war on terrorist whereever they are or whereever they opt to strike and it behooves us to use whatever means available to prevail. We owe that to our good citizens, you know, the ones who keep their loyalties intact.

Sorry.

Gramps

Immediately post-9/11, we were told that it was a historic new day for us. The 21st-Century would be all about "asymmetric warfare" and even the most righteous standing army would be powerless against whatever rag-tag malcontents might come the world's way. In retrospect, it's sorta funny that we took all that so seriously. After all, we were able to limit the likes of Al Qaeda in relatively short order, simply through electronic and financial/transfer means.

Still though...think about it. What would've been our response to a 9/11-type attack (3500 dead Americans) 60,50,...or even 20 years ago? We would've LEVELLED the source of Bin Laden. We would've said...okay, you kilt 3500 of us and the price you pay, is 1 Million of you. Now contrary to those who would suggest that USA remains the axis of all evil past, present, and to come, we HAVE evolved. Terr'st-types know godamned well that we won't target their home-village, much less their home-country. What we do NOW, is surgically drone-target those specific individuals who would do us harm. Some choose to believe our enemy's laments as to how we kill 100 innocent little urchins for every alleged ne'er-do-well we dispatch. I'm not sold on that. BUT....if some terr'st-type's wife #14 and son #34 gets caught in the crossfire?.....Hey, per history, it could've been a whole lot worse.
 
All of you say this now but let say Bush were still President would you still feel the same?

I'll let you answer this and if a GOP win the White House in 2016 I hope all of you that support the usage of drone attacks give him or her the same respect or it will show for a fact you only support the usage only when your political party is in charge...

Also before some of you say that it will be impossible for the GOP to win in 2016 just remember you felt the same way in 2008 and then the 2010 elections cost you the House, so nothing is impossible at this point...

you caught that too? This post AND the responses are a KEEPER. Bush's drone program was highly critisized by the left. But to their credit, some peace groups are not turning a blind eye.

[SIZE=-1]20,000 Airstrikes in the President's First Term Cause Death and Destruction From Iraq to Somalia.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Signed the NDAA into law - making it legal to assassinate Americans w/o charge or trial.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Initiated, and personally oversees a 'Secret Kill List'.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Waged war on Libya without congressional approval.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Started a covert, drone war in Yemen.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Escalated the proxy war in Somalia.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Escalated the CIA drone war in Pakistan.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Maintained a presence in Iraq even after "ending" the war.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Sharply escalated the war in Afghanistan.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Secretly deployed US special forces to 75 countries.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Sold $30 billion of weapons to the dictatorship in Saudi
Arabia.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Signed an agreement for 7 military bases in Colombia.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Opened a military base in Chile.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Signed the Patriot
Act
extension into law.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Continued Bush's rendition
program.
[/SIZE]
 
Drones fly over head in groups of 6 or 7 for 24/7.No one knows when they will strike or who or why.

They strike at night, they hit once and twice and three times so that no one dare run to help.

They are killing Tribal families who had never heard of America before the Drones started killing them. Ancient peoples who have been on their Lands for thousands of years.

The Tribes, The Indigenous peoples have to go in order that US Corperates have an easy road. ................

Right...it doesn't have anything to do with Al Qaeda leadership....it is all about mineral deposits in Pakistan....You should take this on the road. You are one funny, funny honey....We like to kill people who have never heard of America (in which case, how would they have been a barrier to US corporations?)....We only elect people who love to kill foreigners....
 
Well, it was the terrorists who chose the hit-and-run tactics for fighting war, not us. Conventional war is one thing, this is quite another. So, instead of we being the ones lying awake nights wondering where they'll hit next we have adopted their style of warfare to keep them awake wondering where we will strike next. But they have an edge yet. We don't indiscriminately destroy targets such a the twin towers where thousands are merely trying to earn their daily bread.

It's a sad state but they drew first blood.

Gramps




Drones fly over head in groups of 6 or 7 for 24/7.No one knows when they will strike or who or why.

They strike at night, they hit once and twice and three times so that no one dare run to help.

They are killing Tribal families who had never heard of America before the Drones started killing them. Ancient peoples who have been on their Lands for thousands of years.

The Tribes, The Indigenous peoples have to go in order that US Corperates have an easy road. ................
 
This thread was not intended to become a political football. Make it one if that is what turns you on. It's about our security vs their daring and about fighting on the terms they established in the beginning.

Gramps




you caught that too? This post AND the responses are a KEEPER. Bush's drone program was highly critisized by the left. But to their credit, some peace groups are not turning a blind eye.

[SIZE=-1]20,000 Airstrikes in the President's First Term Cause Death and Destruction From Iraq to Somalia.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Signed the NDAA into law - making it legal to assassinate Americans w/o charge or trial.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Initiated, and personally oversees a 'Secret Kill List'.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Waged war on Libya without congressional approval.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Started a covert, drone war in Yemen.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Escalated the proxy war in Somalia.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Escalated the CIA drone war in Pakistan.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Maintained a presence in Iraq even after "ending" the war.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Sharply escalated the war in Afghanistan.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Secretly deployed US special forces to 75 countries.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Sold $30 billion of weapons to the dictatorship in Saudi
Arabia.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Signed an agreement for 7 military bases in Colombia.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Opened a military base in Chile.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Signed the Patriot
Act
extension into law.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Continued Bush's rendition
program.
[/SIZE]
 
Tribal Families???.....What the Fvck?.....No doubt innocents have been killed...They are Not the Targets....The Drone Attacks have been effective in taking out lots of Taliban and Al Queada thugs ...Many Tribal families will applaud that...You can be assured
 
Immediately post-9/11, we were told that it was a historic new day for us. The 21st-Century would be all about "asymmetric warfare" and even the most righteous standing army would be powerless against whatever rag-tag malcontents might come the world's way. In retrospect, it's sorta funny that we took all that so seriously. After all, we were able to limit the likes of Al Qaeda in relatively short order, simply through electronic and financial/transfer means.

Still though...think about it. What would've been our response to a 9/11-type attack (3500 dead Americans) 60,50,...or even 20 years ago? We would've LEVELLED the source of Bin Laden. We would've said...okay, you kilt 3500 of us and the price you pay, is 1 Million of you. Now contrary to those who would suggest that USA remains the axis of all evil past, present, and to come, we HAVE evolved. Terr'st-types know godamned well that we won't target their home-village, much less their home-country. What we do NOW, is surgically drone-target those specific individuals who would do us harm. Some choose to believe our enemy's laments as to how we kill 100 innocent little urchins for every alleged ne'er-do-well we dispatch. I'm not sold on that. BUT....if some terr'st-type's wife #14 and son #34 gets caught in the crossfire?.....Hey, per history, it could've been a whole lot worse.

excellent.
 
The wars of the 21st century will be very different from the past...The days of Tank Brigades and Generals leading battalions of troops...are over...
 
When Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, and Bush kilt 100's of thousands without extending each and every one a "fair trial", they were generally (no pun) hailed as heroes. When Obama kills a handful, some go apopletic. It's odd.
 
We are at war. At least that's the deal for years now.

War is nasty business. The side with the best of everything customarily wins. That means the best of everything from equipment to armament to vehicles and sea-worthy ships and aircraft capable of out performing the enemies planes. It's about inventiveism and mindsets to come up with whatever one needs to get the job done; I leave the atomic bomb as proof of how well it works.

Terrorists have invaded our homeland and destroyed structures along with lives to make a point and in some cases got away with it. We have had a few turncoats who've opted to switch sides and have undertaken the role of subversives against their own nation to carry out assignments given them by our enemies. They are traitors.

Now, those simple explanations said, what is the problem with some who think we are wrong to send drones to do the work that human beings once had to do; like do you think we should go back to war horses and cannon and musketry or should we do as every nation engaged in war has done since the dawn of records -- go with out best in order to put the biggest hurt on our enemy.

Collateral damage is a Johnnie-come-lately in the scheme of things. Hell, under the title of unfortunate incidents innocent people have been dying by millions in every war ever fought. It would be impossible to curtail offenses with guidelines to protect everyone outside of the military participants. Forget it. It's sad, really sad for those afflicted and their loved ones BUT that is not going to change.

About turncoats. Get them. They made a decision and now it is our obligation to make one too. The penalty for such crimes in time of war is death. It's a bummer, hu? Did you know that the Articles of War which set standards for our own military personnel almost all end with the brunt statement that says if you violate those rules "the penalty is death or as the courts-martial' determine. That's our people, the good guys so why is there any question about the rights of turncoats to a fair trial? Oh, courts-martials are not always fair either, but they are a fact of life.

These are my feelings as a veteran of the United States Army in time of war who served in combat areas and did his duty. "Take no prisoners" might sound awful to those far behind the lines but the purpose for such a command usually outweighs the morality of the call. Situations reversed might be once reason. Cruelty to prisoners is also not a new conception by any means. I give you Andersonville as an example or the Bataan death march. How about the Nazi ovens in concentration camps? Yeah! War is hell.

There was a time when wars were won based strictly on numbers. Not so today. The Charge of the Light Brigade was a folly then and today would be total madness when the availability of today's technology is right at hand.

It's war. Who started it? Hell, who knows. Maybe this war is just another splinter from the Crusades, for all I know or a result of the peace terms of WWI as some people claim. But, unlike previous wars fought to take and hold territory this one snuck up on us -- it's a war on terrorist whereever they are or whereever they opt to strike and it behooves us to use whatever means available to prevail. We owe that to our good citizens, you know, the ones who keep their loyalties intact.

Sorry.

Gramps

youre at war? with what country?
 
We are at war. At least that's the deal for years now.

War is nasty business. The side with the best of everything customarily wins. That means the best of everything from equipment to armament to vehicles and sea-worthy ships and aircraft capable of out performing the enemies planes. It's about inventiveism and mindsets to come up with whatever one needs to get the job done; I leave the atomic bomb as proof of how well it works.

Terrorists have invaded our homeland and destroyed structures along with lives to make a point and in some cases got away with it. We have had a few turncoats who've opted to switch sides and have undertaken the role of subversives against their own nation to carry out assignments given them by our enemies. They are traitors.

Now, those simple explanations said, what is the problem with some who think we are wrong to send drones to do the work that human beings once had to do; like do you think we should go back to war horses and cannon and musketry or should we do as every nation engaged in war has done since the dawn of records -- go with out best in order to put the biggest hurt on our enemy.

Collateral damage is a Johnnie-come-lately in the scheme of things. Hell, under the title of unfortunate incidents innocent people have been dying by millions in every war ever fought. It would be impossible to curtail offenses with guidelines to protect everyone outside of the military participants. Forget it. It's sad, really sad for those afflicted and their loved ones BUT that is not going to change.

About turncoats. Get them. They made a decision and now it is our obligation to make one too. The penalty for such crimes in time of war is death. It's a bummer, hu? Did you know that the Articles of War which set standards for our own military personnel almost all end with the brunt statement that says if you violate those rules "the penalty is death or as the courts-martial' determine. That's our people, the good guys so why is there any question about the rights of turncoats to a fair trial? Oh, courts-martials are not always fair either, but they are a fact of life.

These are my feelings as a veteran of the United States Army in time of war who served in combat areas and did his duty. "Take no prisoners" might sound awful to those far behind the lines but the purpose for such a command usually outweighs the morality of the call. Situations reversed might be once reason. Cruelty to prisoners is also not a new conception by any means. I give you Andersonville as an example or the Bataan death march. How about the Nazi ovens in concentration camps? Yeah! War is hell.

There was a time when wars were won based strictly on numbers. Not so today. The Charge of the Light Brigade was a folly then and today would be total madness when the availability of today's technology is right at hand.

It's war. Who started it? Hell, who knows. Maybe this war is just another splinter from the Crusades, for all I know or a result of the peace terms of WWI as some people claim. But, unlike previous wars fought to take and hold territory this one snuck up on us -- it's a war on terrorist whereever they are or whereever they opt to strike and it behooves us to use whatever means available to prevail. We owe that to our good citizens, you know, the ones who keep their loyalties intact.

Sorry.

Gramps

Gramps, I'm with you. The hullabalue about drones killing Americans is just a tempest in a teapot. These SOBs being killed are either terrorists or voluntarily associating with terrorists. In either case, if they can be taken out without SEVERE collateral damage then they should be taken out. These drones are not taking out terrorists in New York city. As for "killing Americans" is concerned, I think anyone aiding the terrorists has renounced his/her citizenship and is no longer an American.
 
The wars of the 21st century will be very different from the past...The days of Tank Brigades and Generals leading battalions of troops...are over...

WHAT? they are over? Makes ya wonder why Obama sent all those M1-A1 tanks to Afghanistan then huh?
 
This thread was not intended to become a political football. Make it one if that is what turns you on. It's about our security vs their daring and about fighting on the terms they established in the beginning.

Gramps

MY GAWD what music to my ears! Never thought I'd see the day.
 
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