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About them doggone drones.

I will suggest that at this point, the burden is on those wringing their hands over the fates of the droned, to bring forth exculpatory evidence as to someone who was wrongly droned.

And from my perspective anyway, it's not good enough to prove that the target's babe-in-arms was innocent. They need to prove that the TARGET was innocent. After all...the world kilt a whole lot more than a coupla innocents, when it went after the likes of Hitler and Tojo.
 
Drones fly over head in groups of 6 or 7 for 24/7.No one knows when they will strike or who or why.

They strike at night, they hit once and twice and three times so that no one dare run to help.

They are killing Tribal families who had never heard of America before the Drones started killing them. Ancient peoples who have been on their Lands for thousands of years.

The Tribes, The Indigenous peoples have to go in order that US Corperates have an easy road. ................

Queenie, if these Ancient people would stay on their own f---ing land and not fly airplanes into our buildings then our drones would not be aimed at them. As far as I know, no Brit has performed a terrorist act on the USA and as far as I know no Brit has been taken out by a drone. But if perchance a terrorist tries to hide in your house then you better report him or get out of the house. Otherwise your a-- might be wiped out too!
 
This thread was not intended to become a political football. Make it one if that is what turns you on. It's about our security vs their daring and about fighting on the terms they established in the beginning.

Gramps

Gramps, if you were to make a post wishing someone a happy birthday, there would be some on this board who would ask if Obama ever presented his birth certificate.
 
Drones fly over head in groups of 6 or 7 for 24/7.No one knows when they will strike or who or why.

They strike at night, they hit once and twice and three times so that no one dare run to help.

They are killing Tribal families who had never heard of America before the Drones started killing them. Ancient peoples who have been on their Lands for thousands of years.

The Tribes, The Indigenous peoples have to go in order that US Corperates have an easy road. ................


How many drones have you personally observed, Madame Expert?
 
When Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, and Bush kilt 100's of thousands without extending each and every one a "fair trial", they were generally (no pun) hailed as heroes. When Obama kills a handful, some go apopletic. It's odd.

Fair, odd people do odd things.
 
WHAT? they are over? Makes ya wonder why Obama sent all those M1-A1 tanks to Afghanistan then huh?

BRU, this might come as a great surprise to you, but we sell (and sometimes give) surplus equipment to our allies.
 
lol! youre guilty until u prove yourself innocent! gotta love the american dream! hahahaahahahaha
 
Modern man's insistence upon "innocent until proven guilty", is ONLY about protecting the innocent. Contrary to the feelings of some, it has nothing to do with the feelings of the guilty, giving the guilty a fair chance of avoiding accountability, or even making it more arduous to prove the guilty guilty. In fact, if we had some "magical" way of determining absolute guilt or innocence at the outset, we'd have no need of "fair trials".

In simpler terms, "due process" is about our avoiding convicting the innocent, and the fact of a few guiltys going free is the price we pay for that, not the goal. On that note then, since the courts have ruled that furriners have limited rights to American due process and since the drone-haters have yet to offer evidence of a single furriner being wrongfully droned, I'm not about silly platitudinousness.
 
Modern man's insistence upon "innocent until proven guilty", is ONLY about protecting the innocent. Contrary to the feelings of some, it has nothing to do with the feelings of the guilty, giving the guilty a fair chance of avoiding accountability, or even making it more arduous to prove the guilty guilty. In fact, if we had some "magical" way of determining absolute guilt or innocence at the outset, we'd have no need of "fair trials".

In simpler terms, "due process" is about our avoiding convicting the innocent, and the fact of a few guiltys going free is the price we pay for that, not the goal. On that note then, since the courts have ruled that furriners have limited rights to American due process and since the drone-haters have yet to offer evidence of a single furriner being wrongfully droned, I'm not about silly platitudinousness.

yeah, you keep tellin urself the drones have only hit the guilty, pal. it makes it so much easier to pretend you live in an honourable country!! hahahahahahaahahhaha
 
BRU, this might come as a great surprise to you, but we sell (and sometimes give) surplus equipment to our allies.

Red this might come as a great surprise to you but that has NOTHING to do with the comment I was replying to or the tanks shipped to Afghanistan.

"The wars of the 21st century will be very different from the past...The days of Tank Brigades and Generals leading battalions of troops...are over..."


 
We are at war. At least that's the deal for years now.

War is nasty business. The side with the best of everything customarily wins. That means the best of everything from equipment to armament to vehicles and sea-worthy ships and aircraft capable of out performing the enemies planes. It's about inventiveism and mindsets to come up with whatever one needs to get the job done; I leave the atomic bomb as proof of how well it works.

Terrorists have invaded our homeland and destroyed structures along with lives to make a point and in some cases got away with it. We have had a few turncoats who've opted to switch sides and have undertaken the role of subversives against their own nation to carry out assignments given them by our enemies. They are traitors.

Now, those simple explanations said, what is the problem with some who think we are wrong to send drones to do the work that human beings once had to do; like do you think we should go back to war horses and cannon and musketry or should we do as every nation engaged in war has done since the dawn of records -- go with out best in order to put the biggest hurt on our enemy.

Collateral damage is a Johnnie-come-lately in the scheme of things. Hell, under the title of unfortunate incidents innocent people have been dying by millions in every war ever fought. It would be impossible to curtail offenses with guidelines to protect everyone outside of the military participants. Forget it. It's sad, really sad for those afflicted and their loved ones BUT that is not going to change.

About turncoats. Get them. They made a decision and now it is our obligation to make one too. The penalty for such crimes in time of war is death. It's a bummer, hu? Did you know that the Articles of War which set standards for our own military personnel almost all end with the brunt statement that says if you violate those rules "the penalty is death or as the courts-martial' determine. That's our people, the good guys so why is there any question about the rights of turncoats to a fair trial? Oh, courts-martials are not always fair either, but they are a fact of life.

These are my feelings as a veteran of the United States Army in time of war who served in combat areas and did his duty. "Take no prisoners" might sound awful to those far behind the lines but the purpose for such a command usually outweighs the morality of the call. Situations reversed might be once reason. Cruelty to prisoners is also not a new conception by any means. I give you Andersonville as an example or the Bataan death march. How about the Nazi ovens in concentration camps? Yeah! War is hell.

There was a time when wars were won based strictly on numbers. Not so today. The Charge of the Light Brigade was a folly then and today would be total madness when the availability of today's technology is right at hand.

It's war. Who started it? Hell, who knows. Maybe this war is just another splinter from the Crusades, for all I know or a result of the peace terms of WWI as some people claim. But, unlike previous wars fought to take and hold territory this one snuck up on us -- it's a war on terrorist whereever they are or whereever they opt to strike and it behooves us to use whatever means available to prevail. We owe that to our good citizens, you know, the ones who keep their loyalties intact.

Sorry.

Gramps






Them doggone drones.....can be used on American citizens if they are "believed to be" the enemy. No warrants, no Congressional approval, just a belief is good enough:


A confidential Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens if they are believed to be “senior operational leaders” of al-Qaida or “an associated force” -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S.



Complete text: http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_new...egal-case-for-drone-strikes-on-americans?lite



Are we okay with that? Democrats, would you be okay with that if there were a Republican in the White House? Republicans, are you okay with that when there is a Democrat in the White House? If you answer is no to either one, it should be no to both.
 
Canadians would use drones, but they don't know how to make them. Hell, they wouldn't even be able to produce cars, were it not for American automobile manufacturers.
 
Well, it was the terrorists who chose the hit-and-run tactics for fighting war, not us. Conventional war is one thing, this is quite another. So, instead of we being the ones lying awake nights wondering where they'll hit next we have adopted their style of warfare to keep them awake wondering where we will strike next. But they have an edge yet. We don't indiscriminately destroy targets such a the twin towers where thousands are merely trying to earn their daily bread.

It's a sad state but they drew first blood.

Gramps

Tribal peoples did what ? What are you talking about Gramps ? There is no such thing as a World Wide Terrorists organization. We are talking of Ancient peoples local to Corperate interests. We are talking about the people who do not want Corperate stealing and destroying their Lands.

http://livingunderdrones.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Stanford-NYU-LIVING-UNDER-DRONES.pdf
 
Li'l George engaged a full scale war against an entire godamned country based on "fuzzy intelligence" . Pres. Obama is targetting drones against very well vetted individuals. There is absolutely NO moral equivalence.


[video=youtube_share;z4OI0GUCI_A]http://youtu.be/z4OI0GUCI_A[/video]
 
Right...it doesn't have anything to do with Al Qaeda leadership....it is all about mineral deposits in Pakistan....You should take this on the road. You are one funny, funny honey....We like to kill people who have never heard of America (in which case, how would they have been a barrier to US corporations?)....We only elect people who love to kill foreigners....


It really does seems as though you have an uncontrollable addiction to the blood of indigenous peoples doesn't it ?
 
I will suggest that at this point, the burden is on those wringing their hands over the fates of the droned, to bring forth exculpatory evidence as to someone who was wrongly droned.

And from my perspective anyway, it's not good enough to prove that the target's babe-in-arms was innocent. They need to prove that the TARGET was innocent. After all...the world kilt a whole lot more than a coupla innocents, when it went after the likes of Hitler and Tojo.

Will this do: "A prominent American journalist says recent studies show that 98 percent of people killed in US assassination drone strikes in Pakistan are innocent civilians.


“The idea that they’re not civilians killed is silly. The British independent journalists have investigated this very carefully and there was just a recent study by Stanford University and New York University that studied the drone hits and what they found was that only about 2% of the casualties were considered militant leaders and that the rest were either civilians or sort of collateral damage,” said Foreign Policy in Focus columnist Conn Hallinan in a recent Press TV interview.

The comments come as a new study conducted by Stanford and New York Universities shows that only one in 50 people killed by US assassination drones are militants in Pakistan while the rest are innocent civilians.

The report concludes that Washington is terrorizing women and children as well as men round the clock with its pilotless aircraft attacks."
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/1...stan-us-drones-in-pakistan-kill-98-civilians/
 
I will suggest that at this point, the burden is on those wringing their hands over the fates of the droned, to bring forth exculpatory evidence as to someone who was wrongly droned.

And from my perspective anyway, it's not good enough to prove that the target's babe-in-arms was innocent. They need to prove that the TARGET was innocent. After all...the world kilt a whole lot more than a coupla innocents, when it went after the likes of Hitler and Tojo.

http://livingunderdrones.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Stanford-NYU-LIVING-UNDER-DRONES.pdf
 
I don't doubt that civilians are killed by drone strikes. Their innocence, on the other hand, is most certainly debatable.

But, you know... If some anonymous "prominent American journalist" said it, then it must be true, eh?
 
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